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C4 vs C5 comparison,differences,improvements...

45K views 26 replies 15 participants last post by  Kazoom 
#1 ·
I was lucky enough today to score a c5 trans out of an F100.I have pulled it down to do a real comparison of the improvements + differences.
It even has a 'H' servo,the first i have ever seen.
The way to pick a c5 from the outside is
Deep pan(2.5"deep)
Fine thread on fr band adjuster
Large cooler fittings(1/4" thread)
E2 casting code
Starting at the back ,the #9 thrust washer has the normal 2 locate tangs but also has 2 cutouts to line up with an additional lube hole discussed in the c4 build post.The hole is drilled through the case to meet up withthe cooler return passage.The hole is 9/64".
The cooler return passage is also drilled to 13/64" which is larger than a c4(5/32&quot

The rear roller clutch spring retainer has the wafer springs clipped to it instead of being loose like a c4.
The front pump has no checkball in the stator support cooler passage and this passage is drilled to 1/4".A c4 has the passage at 3/16" and a ball fitted.
The ball can be removed on c4's to improve the oil flow in the cooler circuit.
Now moving inside, the sun gear where it fits into the front + rear planetaries has lube holes drilled to get the oil from the output shaft lube circuit to the gearsets.The C5 has 4 holes each end @.094" .The c4 only has 3 holes each end @ .040".
The forward hub has 5 clutches.It has a different bevel plate in the bottom of the clutchpack Which is .310"overall with a .110" step.
The c4 bevel plate is .265" with a .125"step.
The hi/rev hub has 4 clutches @.078",All steels @.090" with a dished cushion plate on top.
Both the fwd + hi/rev clutches have a thin .140" pressure plates.
The hi/rev hub has the circlip grooved machined higher also as has been mentioned before that the c5 hub has the capacity for more clutches.
The top edge of the groove is down 1.020" where a c4 is bown 1.082".
This trans is a case fill type and the input shaft has a recess about half way along it and it seems to be hardened.
I hope this info is useful as there has been a lot of discussion on the differences .These mods could be done to a c4 to improve the oiling to c5 specs.
 
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#3 ·
That's great that you did a side by side comparison. Interresting to know the exact differences between the two. Did the valve body have an extra little valve body bolted to it and the filter with only one bolt holding it on in the center? That's how the C-5s are here and they have lock up converters here too. "R" servos are difficult to find on transmissions here but "H" servos are everywhere. I guess it's the other way around over there down under. I can't find any C-5s here and I have been looking too.
 
#5 ·
I'm always scheemin' for sometin' but at least Ford accidentally did something right and made a bellhousing that would work with C-4/460s. I have owned C-5s before but I thought those were junk transmissions that couldn't use a regular C-4 valve body so I threw them away. If only I had known then that the weird looking valve body with 1 bolt holing the filter on was a desirable case and the drums could hold more clutches. I assumed they were junk like the "Pinto" C-4s are. If only, if only, if only! DOH!
 
#6 ·
The valvebody did have the extra timing body on the bottom and the large rect filter with the one bolt.I will look some more today and see if i can find anymore differeces.
I will get some digital pics next week so it will be easier to see the exact mods so a c4 can be done to match.
 
#7 ·
Good info as usual coming from the land down under. If a C5 has all those improvements over a C4 why can't a C5 be used with a C4 valve body and pan?Seems like it would be easier than modifing a C4 to C5 oiling and extra clutch specs.Just a thought.
 
#9 ·
C5 will respond to all of the C4 mods. The C4 manual VB's and TB's work in the case.

They also made the C5's in pan fill models. I have a couple of the 429/420 bellhousings if anyone is interested in one email me. Have one listed on eBay right now.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1813760393
 
#25 ·
Hi folks,
Is the tail shaft 31 spline for a C4? I have a project that has been driving a while but I never looked before and just noticed that my junkyard find shaft assembly says it was removed from f100/c4. I have been running it for long time behind a NewProcess 435 in front of ‘67 28 spline rear and during my current refurb attempt noticed that the slip yolk has 30 splines and one “gap”.
 
#15 ·
Thanks a lot gregaust, those are some very good pictures and does show quite a difference indeed. Nice camera by the way, very clear and crisp pictures. I don't have a digital camera but I have a digital cam corder that takes digital pics on a memory stick but the picture quality sucks even in good light and really sucks in florescent lighting. I'm just about ready to get a good digital camera so I can document the Falcon buildup and take pics of the 466 parts and Super Comp C-4 internals with added rollers that Super Comps don't come with the info I got from you guys. Thanks again Greg.
 
#27 · (Edited)
see the new SM C4/C6 trans on sale this yr which interests me... I think it would be trick with a Clutch! ... NEW clutch C6, tranny info for BB/SB Fords | Ford Mustang Forums (corral.net)

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PCE Speedmaster® Automatic Transmission PCE432.1050 | Buy Direct with Fast Shipping (speedmaster79.com)


This C4 transmission is built with 31-spline billet input and output shafts. It would require the use of a C6 torque converter or installing PCE612.1015.

"( Not a traditional C4, every component has been upgraded:
  • Fully rollerized transmission
  • First drum 10 clutches carbon fiber
  • Second drum 10 clutches carbon fiber
  • First band extra wide 2.250”carbon fiber
  • Reverse band carbon fiber
  • Rear bush ball bearing
  • Rear shaft special ball bearing (stops from flexing)
  • Redesigned rear sprag
  • Big second gear servo
  • Redesigned reverse servo
  • CNC billet reverse pattern valve body
  • Main case fully strengthen to handle 1500+ horsepower
  • First and second drum (clutches) 8% larger
  • First gear planetary gears 8 straight cut
  • Second gear planetary C6 - 6 gears straight cut
  • Gear ratio 2.2:1 first gear
  • Input shaft material 4340
  • Output shaft material 4340
  • Oil Pump billet 9 gear CNC from 8620
  • Oil pump housing billet aluminum
  • Oil pump seal with spiral lock
  • Convertor stayed fully CNC machine from billet 4340 )"
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