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Old 06-23-2004, 12:55 AM   #1 (permalink)
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NO POWER 302 - LOOSE VALVES?

Hi! I am the same guy that was on here before with the 302 that seemed to make NO power. Well, I found out the stall isnt the problem, the timing is set right (I changed the advance springs), and the car is as slow as ever?!? My neighbor knows about motors, but he has only ever dealt with stock or VERY mildly built motors. He seems to think that since it has adjustable valves, they aren't shutting all the way and I am losing all compression. Like I said, a professional machine shop built the motor and they have an excellent reputation and have built many big race motors, so they know what they're doing. Is this possible that my valves need readjusted? I can find no other reason that the car isn't fast. Won't even squeak the tires at high RPMS.
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Old 06-23-2004, 07:17 AM   #2 (permalink)
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NO POWER 302 - LOOSE VALVES?

well it's hard to diagnose a problem without knowing more. first you set you're timming. did you set it at the recomended setting at recomended rpm? also, you said you changed the advance weights/springs, have you checked the vacume advance? the valves don't need to be periodicly adjusted. you have hyd lifters. other than a failure or dissasembly you shouldn't need to touch them. what springs did you install? same as the factory ones? couple of more things. start with the basics. check the fuel filter, set the timming with the vacume advance plugged and at the recomended rpm. still not better, check the plugs. they will tell you what's going on. you mentioned a machine shop built the motor. when you first installed it did it run good and now lack power or has it always lacked power from the day you installed it?
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Old 06-23-2004, 12:07 PM   #3 (permalink)
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NO POWER 302 - LOOSE VALVES?

The motor has always lacked power. The valve springs are those that came with the cam. Plugs are fine, timing is exactly where it needs to be (Is at total at about 2500 RPM) Fuel Pump and filter pump fine. I am just going to take it to the machine shop and see if they can diagnose it. Also, I installed the second to lightest springs in the distributor.

[ This Message was edited by: 69Tyler302 on 6/24/04 12:08am ]
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Old 06-23-2004, 03:38 PM   #4 (permalink)
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NO POWER 302 - LOOSE VALVES?

Have you checked your cranking compression? Also how much vacuum do you have? Have you pulled the front cover off to check where the cam was installed? Did you break in the cam or did the machine shop?

Yes, if your valves aren't shutting completely you're losing compression and vacuum and the result will be no power.

List the rest of the details on your engine/transmission/rear end. Check all the basic things and if you still can't figure it out take it back to the machine shop b/4 it's too late.

Aaron.
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Old 06-23-2004, 05:05 PM   #5 (permalink)
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NO POWER 302 - LOOSE VALVES?

Normally when valves are set too tight on hrdro cams it will start hard and you will hear funny sounding back fires through the exhaust.
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Old 06-23-2004, 09:19 PM   #6 (permalink)
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NO POWER 302 - LOOSE VALVES?

I broke the cam in.

Motor specs:

302 + .030
Hyperutectic Speed Pros 10:1
RPM Air Gap intake
Holley 650 DP
MSD PRO Billet and Crane fireball ignition and coil
Comp Cams .541/.544 lift and 284/296 duration
Fully ported and polished heads and 1.94/1.50 valves
3700 Stall(seems to stall lower?)
4.11 gear

15* initial timing, 36* total and NO vaccuum advance.

[ This Message was edited by: 69Tyler302 on 6/24/04 9:23am ]
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Old 06-23-2004, 09:55 PM   #7 (permalink)
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NO POWER 302 - LOOSE VALVES?

The first thing I always do when I can't figure out a motor problem is check the plugs. If they all look fine then do a compression test. The plugs can tell you an awful lot. If the compression is way down then maybe they adjusted the valves too tight. With a 10:1 motor your compression reading should be in the neighborhood of 180 psi. Hope this helps.
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Old 06-23-2004, 09:55 PM   #8 (permalink)
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NO POWER 302 - LOOSE VALVES?

i've got pretty much the same combo in a '84 ranger ---- with the same prob -- tried cast manifolds, headers, no mufflers, different intakes, 3 cams, 3 carbs, nitrous ( this worked!!!)3 converters, 3.70, 3.50, and 4.56 gears, air cleaners, ignition systems, etc . --- this never ran better than a 13.60 on the motor (12.20 on the juice) smaller cams helped the most , now has performer RPM cam , stall speed is always less than advertised, so it all adds up to - the motor isnt making enough power. the ONE constant in all of this it the HEADS -- '65 289 castings with 1.94, and 1.60 valves , ported to within an inch of thier life but never flow checked (not available in this area at the time) i dont think that my heads can flow enough to make decent power -- with a double pump holley , the last 1/3 + of the throttle travel doesnt add to the power - so it seems to me that the heads cant pass the airflow --- on my tunnel port with an 800 holley - if the throttle linkage doesnt open up all the way you can feel the difference big time - back off the linkage an 1/8" and you can tell it - on the 302 - a 1/4" + wouldnt make any difference -- the last cam swap was to make more bottom end power instead of top end and this helped the most out of all of this - kinda like the early 5.0 movement preached - do it all before 5500rpm ----- to do it all over again i would add aftermarket heads ---- hope this helps
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Old 06-23-2004, 10:27 PM   #9 (permalink)
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NO POWER 302 - LOOSE VALVES?

Something I learned a long time ago that might be something to think about. The coil can be wired either direction, but will only supply enough power in one direction. Try reversing the wires, ya never know.
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Old 06-24-2004, 12:43 AM   #10 (permalink)
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NO POWER 302 - LOOSE VALVES?

Did you port them? if not, got a flow sheet? Without a flow sheet on those heads you never know what you really got. I've seen heads with the exhaust bump removed and people call them ported...lols, hope you didn't get sucked into buy them off ebay.

Seems like alot of stall and cam for a 302, my 302 with holley heads and big roller cam doesn't have any bottom end, I'm stalling at 3800-4000.
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Old 06-24-2004, 04:43 AM   #11 (permalink)
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Not something like packing plugs left in the mufflers? blocked? badly misaligned header gaskets, check camshaft timing, Wrong comp height pistons? must be something simple or a combination of wrong parts
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Old 06-24-2004, 06:36 AM   #12 (permalink)
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NO POWER 302 - LOOSE VALVES?

if the motor is running basicly normal (except lack of power)not sputtering, stalling ect. then i would check the compression... if you check the plugs as mentioned above and still nothing out of the norm id do a leak down test.
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Old 06-24-2004, 10:07 PM   #13 (permalink)
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NO POWER 302 - LOOSE VALVES?

on my ranger when i was trying to diagnose this problem - i ran across something kinda odd - i was running a air/fuel ratio monitor and it was showing probs at about 3000 rpm -maybe reversion or something - down low it would pull then flatten out till 4000 rpm and then pull hard again - when it flattened out the air/fuel ratio was all over the place - 8:1 to 16:1 several times a second it seemed -- this thing never had enough power to do a burn out - when the power would start to ramp up this stuff would start -- the only thing i could come up with is the reversion thing and went through hell trying to kill it - short of changing the heads -- tried all of the stuff listed above - port matching, ignition,cams,carbs,headers,converters,gears,etc -- i tried for a couple years to fix this --- never did find the governor --- next one will be at least 500 cubic inches -- i think it'll run then
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Old 06-28-2004, 06:42 AM   #14 (permalink)
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NO POWER 302 - LOOSE VALVES?

I have quite similar problem with my recently installed heads & cam, low power. I'll list my engine info & what I have found (not much )

Here is complete specs for my engine:
- 351W .060 -78 block + "std .060 pistons"
- Performer RPM 1.90/1.60 60cc heads (new style)
- Roller rockers
- Crane Powermax 272 hyd. cam (@.050 216/228 )
- Performer 351W intake manifold
- Carter 625 carb
- Accel 300+ ignition box
- Pertronics Ignitor
- dual 2-1/4 exhaust with H-pipe
- original iron exhaust manifolds (this is no good, I know..)
- compression is bit low but it should be 9:1 or just little bit lower..

I know my car (Ranchero -78 ) is heavy and rear 2.73 is not best for acceleration but after heads & cam about all I got is that the engine spins much higher than before but I don't feel much power increase.

I have been experimenting with ignition and it seems that engine likes lots of advance, 20 initial & about 42 or more max. Due starting problems with 20* initial, I have settled down with just 12 degrees, and I have soft springs in the distributor.

Cranking cylinder pressures are quite similar before head & cam swap, about 155-160 PSI, and idle vacuum is now 16" with no vacuum advance. I had it on 18" when I had 20 degrees initial. (before head&cam 19-21" )

Next step is to put larger jets in the carb and see if it makes difference..

I can't even do burnout with my only pulling wheel now, I can't all be depending on those junk exhaust manifolds, right?



[ This Message was edited by: Jogi on 6/28/04 6:59pm ]
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Old 06-28-2004, 09:54 PM   #15 (permalink)
jon
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NO POWER 302 - LOOSE VALVES?

on the 302 ranger i started out with a set of ported iron manifolds an 2.25" pipes - i then went with a set of try-y's with a 2.5 set up and without going to the track ( seat of the pants testing)( i used a vericom computer a lot) i couldn't tell any difference - when i had the flowmasters on it the only thing odd was that i didnt have any collector gasket probs that i had with other mufflers ( 3+ sets) and on the bottle - i rally think that if this thing had a stick trans in it - it would be the ticket -- the first converters were based upon cam manufacturers recommendations -- the rest was upon real world testing -- my nephew's 350 S-10 could kill this thing without even trying - all it had was a small cam - lol - i am a die hard ford fan but in this instance the chevy ruled - not to make anyone mad but this time this was the outcome -- now on the bottle - it was a different story altogether !!!! i drove the ranger for the last time sat. (sold it) - it still would not burn the tires. sooooo - still never solved the prob.
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