HELP WHAT PISTONS WILL FIT on a 5.0 or 302 block with the longer 289 rods? - Ford Muscle Forums : Ford Muscle Cars Tech Forum
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Old 07-25-2004, 09:04 PM   #1 (permalink)
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HELP WHAT PISTONS WILL FIT on a 5.0 or 302 block with the longer 289 rods?

Looks like I have to buy custom pistons for my Small Block Ford engine. SINCE I have to buy custom pistions I want to use my longer 289 rods, I am not attempting to build a stroker motor, I just want to know if there are pistons out there that will work?

THANK YOU

the engine is a 1989 5.0 H.O. block


(the pistons should be forged {for the nitrous use!} and have large valve reliefs {for 2.02, 1.60 i suppose} they also need the piston pin located up closer to the piston face, does anyone know what i need??!)

[ This Message was edited by: 67fastback on 7/27/04 9:59am ]
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Old 07-26-2004, 03:41 AM   #2 (permalink)
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HELP WHAT PISTONS WILL FIT on a 5.0 or 302 block with the longer 289 rods?

a lot of racers had good success using chevy 350 pistons in 302's using the 289 rods. the compression hieght(1.55&quot is as near perfect as you can get. as i recall the piston sticks up about .005". the only thing is you need to bore the small end of the ford rod to a .927" diameter for the chevy pins. and since you have to do that anyway, you may as well floa tthe pins, just remember to use double spiro locks on the pins.

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[ This Message was edited by: rbohm on 7/26/04 3:42pm ]
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Old 07-26-2004, 04:25 AM   #3 (permalink)
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HELP WHAT PISTONS WILL FIT on a 5.0 or 302 block with the longer 289 rods?

Thanks for the information, rbohm.

Anyone out there know some specific part #'s for comparison? Any manufacturer, I would like to gather as much information as possible (they must be forged to stand up to regular nitrous use)
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Old 07-26-2004, 08:52 AM   #4 (permalink)
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HELP WHAT PISTONS WILL FIT on a 5.0 or 302 block with the longer 289 rods?

In my 306 i am running a 5.40 rod.My custom pistons are from www.bennettracing.com .they are made by ross.i would give bennett a call i got a real good deal on my custom pistons.It takes a 2-3 weeks to make your pistons.A cheaper way is to use a longer rod is to use a 289 piston and rod. the 289 uses a 5.15 rod.
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Old 07-26-2004, 12:08 PM   #5 (permalink)
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HELP WHAT PISTONS WILL FIT on a 5.0 or 302 block with the longer 289 rods?

Don't full float the rods...too much material has to be removed from the small end of a 289 rod to full float a .927 pin.

tonys10sec306 made a comment that i'm not sure about, a 289 rod and piston with a 302 crank will have a compression height that is too long I believe...check.

To be honest, you'll see little if any improvement with 289 rods in a 302. Do what tony did to see some measureable improvement. Those short pistons with 5.4 rods spell lower friction which translates to more HP. If your thinking that the longer rod's improvement to the rod/stroke ratio is going to make an increase in HP, think again because a 289 rod is only 1/16 longer...not very much. The rod angle will only be a fraction of a degree better than with 302 rods.
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'65 Mustang, 331 custom built with 289 H beam rods and 383W piston, 282S cam, self ported '70 351w heads, T5z, 9" w/3.50s.
430 HP @6500
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Old 07-26-2004, 12:10 PM   #6 (permalink)
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HELP WHAT PISTONS WILL FIT on a 5.0 or 302 block with the longer 289 rods?

Hey...just noticed your location. Hi neighbor! I drive thru YL to work in Anaheim all the time.
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Tracy Blackford: Anaheim Hills, Ca
'65 Mustang, 331 custom built with 289 H beam rods and 383W piston, 282S cam, self ported '70 351w heads, T5z, 9" w/3.50s.
430 HP @6500
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Old 07-26-2004, 02:22 PM   #7 (permalink)
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HELP WHAT PISTONS WILL FIT on a 5.0 or 302 block with the longer 289 rods?

Well i looked at some at some old super ford mags. july 94.They said use a 302 block with 289 rods.and a off the shelf chevy 350 trw flat top piston.with that set up in a 302 you will have a comp 11-1 with 48 cc head and 10.2 with 55. Also it said the small end of the rod can be easily accept boring to required.927.The only draw back that the valve notches are wrong.So you will have to fly cut the pistons.I never said you will make more power with a 289 rod then you would with 302 rod or a 5.40 rod. I do know that my long rod comb runs good or better then a lot of roller and hi tech aluminum heads 331 and 347

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[ This Message was edited by: tonys10sec306 on 7/27/04 2:25am ]
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Old 07-26-2004, 04:26 PM   #8 (permalink)
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HELP WHAT PISTONS WILL FIT on a 5.0 or 302 block with the longer 289 rods?

Quote:
On 2004-07-26 14:22, tonys10sec306 wrote:
Also it said the small end of the rod can be easily accept boring to required.927.
Boring a 289 rod to .927 for a press fit is OK. Boring a 289 rod to accept a .927 bronze bushing for full floating is not recommended.

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[ This Message was edited by: blkfrd on 7/27/04 8:12am ]
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Old 07-26-2004, 04:48 PM   #9 (permalink)
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HELP WHAT PISTONS WILL FIT on a 5.0 or 302 block with the longer 289 rods?

Why the Quote???

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Old 07-26-2004, 05:16 PM   #10 (permalink)
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HELP WHAT PISTONS WILL FIT on a 5.0 or 302 block with the longer 289 rods?

Hi ther blkfrd (slick fastback!), born & raised in Y.L...I love it, there are so many hot rods + car people here!
-------
so it seems that the 350 piston is a common swap, but machine work is required(?) I found a possible? part # I have pasted the information below. Does this look okay?
-------
:: taken from http://www.racerwalsh.com/v8_pistons.htm ::
5.0 (302) ROD/PISTON combinations
Fitting longer than stock connecting rods to an engine increases horsepower and torque. They have become standard items in high output race engines. Advantages include a much lighter piston than is possible with the stock length rod, giving quicker acceleration and less reciprocating weight. Three rod lengths are available: 5.090" (stock 302), 5.155" (BOSS 302). and 5.315", or 5.4". They all come with 2.239" crank pin, and .912" rod pin (bushed).
-------
The pistons below match the rod lengths shown above
to give a 'zero deck' (top of piston even with the top of 302 block)
WISECO FORGED PISTONS (set of 8 $576)
8012 piston (5.090" rod) (ea.) $66
8014 piston (5.155" rod) (ea.) $66
8016 piston (5.315" rod) (ea.) $66
8017 piston (5.4"rod) (ea.) $66


(thanks tonys10sec306 + EVERYBODY for the great responses!)

[ This Message was edited by: 67fastback on 7/27/04 5:43am ]
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Old 07-26-2004, 05:19 PM   #11 (permalink)
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HELP WHAT PISTONS WILL FIT on a 5.0 or 302 block with the longer 289 rods?

I guess i dont get a thanks?
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Old 07-26-2004, 05:58 PM   #12 (permalink)
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HELP WHAT PISTONS WILL FIT on a 5.0 or 302 block with the longer 289 rods?

tonys10sec306 when you said "long rod comb runs good or better then a lot of..." I agree with you. Here are some benefits as read:

Effects of Longer Rods

Provides longer piston dwell time at & near TDC, which maintains a longer state of compression by keeping the chamber volume small. This has obvious benefits: better combustion, higher cylinder pressure after the first few degrees of rotation past TDC, and higher temperatures within the combustion chamber. This type of rod will produce very good mid to upper RPM torque.
The longer rod will reduce friction within the engine, due to the reduced angle which will place less stress at the thrust surface of the piston during combustion. These rods work well with numerically high gear ratios and lighter vehicles.

*Long rods move the piston pin location higher, towards the piston deck. This allows the skirt (and hence the entire piston) to be made shorter. Although long rods weigh slightly more than short rods, this is more than offset by the reduction in piston weight, because the piston's weight is effectively concentrated at the end of a "lever" (the rod). For the same total deck height, a longer rod will use a shorter (and therefore lighter) piston, and generally have a safer maximum RPM.

*Moving the pin up closer to the ring-pack reduces piston knock, enhancing piston ring sealing.

*The longer the rod (the greater the R/S ratio), the less intake runner volume the engine requires. This is significant if the engine is otherwise cylinder-head-limited.

*Long rods reduce the maximum rod angularity (the amount of deviation from a straight line drawn through the center of the crank journal, connecting rod, and piston axis) reached during the combustion cycle. This in turn reduces side loads on the piston and cuts bore friction, one of the largest friction contributors of any part within the engine.

*Less rod angularity also means the long rod maintains a straighter "push" on the connecting rod for a longer time period than a shorter rod. Pushing in a straighter line obviously transfers energy more efficiently.

*Compared to a short-rod engine, the long-rod engine dwells longer at, and decelerates and accelerates faster from, the vicinity of TDC. This has the effect of cutting both average and peak piston speeds, which permits the valves more time to fill and exhaust the cylinder.
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Old 07-26-2004, 08:25 PM   #13 (permalink)
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HELP WHAT PISTONS WILL FIT on a 5.0 or 302 block with the longer 289 rods?

I changed my post to be more specific on what I was quoting. Not a thing against what you said. Were they press fitting the pin or full floating the pin in the 289 rod 302?

Joe Jill at Superior Automotive in Fullerton, Ca told me specifically that he would not put a bronze bushing in a 289 rod...not enough material left over compromising small end strength. I asked him this question when I was in the process of building a 289 rod 331 stroker using a KB322 piston which had a .927 pin. I ended up finding a set of H beams 289 rods for less than $300 which I had honed out to accept the .927 pin.

Someone else who replied previously said why not go ahead and full float the .927 pin. I was commenting on his reply as well.

Just want to convey to the poster that I would recommend press fit a .927 and not advise doing full float in case he has any thoughts of doing so.

Now there is another case here and that is full floating without a bronze bushing, but I really have never heard of anyone full floating steel to steel so I don't know if it can be done or not. Ever hear of this being done?


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'65 Mustang, 331 custom built with 289 H beam rods and 383W piston, 282S cam, self ported '70 351w heads, T5z, 9" w/3.50s.
430 HP @6500
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Old 07-26-2004, 08:29 PM   #14 (permalink)
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HELP WHAT PISTONS WILL FIT on a 5.0 or 302 block with the longer 289 rods?

I wrote a program a few years ago that computes the piston travel and the effect that the rod length has on the piston movement, acceleration, etc. Very helpful to see the effects in mathematical terms. It will surprise you on its results...it surprised me. PM me if you would like a copy of the program (it's actually an Excel file).
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'65 Mustang, 331 custom built with 289 H beam rods and 383W piston, 282S cam, self ported '70 351w heads, T5z, 9" w/3.50s.
430 HP @6500
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Old 07-26-2004, 08:50 PM   #15 (permalink)
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HELP WHAT PISTONS WILL FIT on a 5.0 or 302 block with the longer 289 rods?

Quote:
Now there is another case here and that is full floating without a bronze bushing, but I really have never heard of anyone full floating steel to steel so I don't know if it can be done or not. Ever hear of this being done?



Yes, I've done it on some 350's, 400's, a 452 Wedge Mopar stroker, and several 302's with success. I wouldn't recommend it on a street engine which has to endure thousands of miles between teardowns, but on a race engine which (normally) gets freshened each season, it's perfectly acceptable. Perhaps I'm one of the few that believes in it....but all motorcycle engines I've ever been into (excluding H-D/Buell and some other offbrands) area all floaters with no bushings. I've personally driven one balls-to-the-wall at 16,000 RPM for over 2 minutes on a dyno roller-and the only thing that was even remotely abnormal was the hotter than normal coolant at 220 deg...which is about normal for those crotch rockets. The owner complained of a engine miss that only happened in 5th and 6th gears at 15,000 and above...and I'll be darned if I was going to ride it that fast to find it!
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