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Old 05-21-2005, 04:45 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Watts link question.

I've been installing a Chassis Works four link on my '65. I had planned on using a watt's link. I ordered one from a company called "Totally Poalished", which I have not received yet. What I was wondering is if I could use a watt's link on TOP of the rear end housing. I have seen them on the bottom (like TCP's).

Is there any reason why using one on top would work any different than on the bottom?

Thanks,
Kirk.

BTW, I ordered my watt's link about two months ago ($525)javascriptoInsert('');
javascriptoInsert('');. I have had a real hard time getting a hold of the company ( http://totallypolished.com/frames.shtml ) I sent them a money order and they said that it would take about two weeks for delivery. I don't have an invoice, just a copy of the canceled money order. If don't receive the product, what would be my best coarse of action: small claims court, ect.
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Old 05-21-2005, 06:13 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Watts link question.

I'd guess the location of the Watts Link translates to something like 'roll center' similar to the way a Panhard Bar (a.k.a. 'track bar') will. Maier Racing has an explanation of 'Roll Center' as it relates to their new design Panhard Bar:

http://www.maierracing.com/

If you look at the geometry of a Watts Link, it sure looks like it would be easier to mount on top of the housing. But, since it isn't mounted up there on any aftermarket kits I've seen; there must be a reason...
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Old 05-21-2005, 06:21 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Watts link question.

normally, the rear end housing is the lowest point of the car (unless your car is substantially lowered) and adding a watts link to the bottom of the housing would really reduce ground clearance, which may be an issue depending on the car. That's the only reason I see that it wouldn't be such a good idea mounting on the bottom. That, and what would you attatch it to? The frame rails are up top usually, and it'd be easier to mount it up on top of the housing. Are you going with a 4 link, ladder, or what?
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Old 05-21-2005, 08:14 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Watts link question.

I'm using a four link. The main reason that I want to use a watts link is because it keeps the rear end centered through out the travel.

The only disadvantage that I can see to using it on the top or bottom is that it will put the crank at a slight angle to the forces form time to time. Where as when it is on the back, the forces are in line with the crank.

The top is looking promising. The springs fit in there alot better, because I can put them behind the axle rather than in front. All the angles look better too.

I have thought of using a diagonal link or a wish bone, but I don't see how I could and keep my back seat and have my exhaust run all of the way out the back (it's going UNDER the axle and the muffllers will be at the back like a vette).

Yes my car is veeeeery low. I'm using air bag suspension. Shock waves all around. Dual A-arm in the front. Ride highth will be 4 1/2" in the front and 5 1/2" in the rear (to the frame rails).

BTW, I was using the screen name "iamblackjack" for about ten years, but I'm shedding that old name now. I couldn't access my profile anyway because my e-mail has changed aswell. If an admistrator would like to delete "iamblackjack" be my guest.

Kirk.
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Old 05-22-2005, 05:40 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Watts link question.

a watts link has been put on top of the axle in the past, but as stated it raises the rear roll center. as long as the front and rear roll centers are compatable though, there is usually very little problem with the higher rear roll center.
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Old 05-22-2005, 09:45 AM   #6 (permalink)
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Watts link question.

The roll center will be located at the point on the center section where the watts link pivots. Generally speaking, the higher the roll center, the greater the likelihood of wheelspin coming off corners. This is because higher roll centers cause weight jecking and greater side loading on the outside tire.

If you look at a trans-am car, chances are you will see the Watts linkage mounted horizontally on the bottom of the center section.

In addition to restricitive rules, stock cars use Panhard rods because they facilitate roll center adjustment. However, unlike Watts linkage Panhard rods change roll center with suspension travel/roll.

If you want to see an alternative to a Watts or Panhard setup, have a look at the "Underpinnings" page of my site (www.robisonracing.com). I use a setup where the lower radius rods of the four link meet at the center section to provide lateral location.

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Old 05-22-2005, 09:06 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Watts link question.

Here are some pictures of the 4 link with lower radius rods providing lateral location:


https://fordmuscle.com/pictures/pics...ernforpost.JPG

https://fordmuscle.com/pictures/pics..._LRquarter.JPG

https://fordmuscle.com/pictures/pics..._RRquarter.JPG

https://fordmuscle.com/pictures/pics...RRquarter2.JPG
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Old 05-22-2005, 09:33 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Watts link question.

A Watts link will also keep the rear end centered in the car unlike a Panhard bar which will pull the rear end over to one side because it swings in an arc.
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Old 05-22-2005, 10:49 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Watts link question.

No one has addressed your problem of not getting the item you ordered.. If you do not get it theres no need to go to court. Just contact your local Postmaster.. He will follow up on the situation, and I'll bet you get it then.. Could be Mail Fraud.. This has worked for me, before..

Ray
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Old 05-23-2005, 09:58 AM   #10 (permalink)
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Watts link question.

Quote:
On 2005-05-22 09:45, mattrobison wrote:
I use a setup where the lower radius rods of the four link meet at the center section to provide lateral location.

That's called a Satchell link. It works very well to keep the rear-end centered. There's a guy over on "corner-carvers.com" that just built a Satchell link set-up for his Jag. It turned out really well. You have to be careful with your design, you don't want to introduce binding as the car rolls and the suspension articulates.

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Old 05-23-2005, 10:08 AM   #11 (permalink)
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Watts link question.

That seems to the reverse of a regular triangulated four link, Matt. I had thought of using a triangulated origninaly, but I ran in to some space problems. Looks good!

I didn't find the definition of "roll center" at that Maier Racing site. I think that I have an idea of what it is though. Kinda like the front axle on a tractor pivots. The lower the pivot point, the better (on a car that is).

Sliding out in the corners could be fun!!!! Ain't drifting the new big thing. Oh, yeah, its a ricer thing. Besides, at $350 a peice, I'm not wasting a pair of 335/30/18 Michelin Piolets.

Kirk.

I just found a lot good imfo at http://www.rodandcustommagazine.com/.../135_0401_ifs/

[ This Message was edited by: knevermore on 5/23/05 10:22pm ]
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Old 05-23-2005, 10:46 AM   #12 (permalink)
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Watts link question.

I agree with Rayell. One of the few things the Feds pretty
vigorously prosecute is mail fraud. So if you sent that
money order through the US Mail..... just remind the
company of that, if you can get their attention. It's not if
the feds catch up, it's when. And when they do there will
be some very unhappy folks at that company.
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