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Old 10-20-2007, 06:33 PM   #1 (permalink)
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351w estimated HP

hi,

I have been reading this board for several months while having my 351 being built. It is ready and running strong, however i will like some estimates of HP and torque. and have some concerns

Details...

I was given a free 351w 1974 shortblock that had a fresh rebuilt with 0.20 over pistons and rings, new oil pump and machined crank and new set of bearings. Stock rods.
Then it got:
New edelbrock performer aluminum heads, camshaft and intake.
Holley 670 truck avenger
Summit 1.6 roller rockers,
edelbrock double roller timing set,
new chromoly pushrods,
summit shorty headers.
HEI ignition distributor GM style
accel supercoil, module and 8.8 mm cables.
Dual 2.25 exhust with dynomax glasspacks


I have NO idea of the compresion ratio.. since i have NO specs of the pistons.

The engine is in my Jeep with a NP435 tranny, 205 tcase with 5.38 geared dana 60 and 14 bolt diferenctials turnning 39.5 inch swampers.

Can anyone estimate the power level of this engine?????? At the moment it runs strong up to aprox 5000 rpms, then it runs out of juice. What is choking it?? Can this be taken to 6 r 6500 rpm?? How???


Thanks, i was thinking of taking this to 400 hp levels.
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Old 10-20-2007, 09:32 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Re: 351w estimated HP

Since you are basically running the edelbrock performer package you should be able to find a hp number on their site somewhere...I don't know about the performer package but the performer rpm package is about 400hp but uses 1 3/4 long tube headers and a 750 cfm carb...So I would imagine your headers and exhaust are killing power as well as the cam and intake..I would go with the performer rpm intake or air gap and 2 1/2 inch exhaust..I'm not sure what you can fit in the jeep for headers?..A cam upgrade to something like a comp cams XE-274 should work well and increase your rpm range.
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Old 10-21-2007, 08:11 AM   #3 (permalink)
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Re: 351w estimated HP

Thanks for the answer and tips, however keep in mind that low end torque is very important for my application as an offroader with eventual rock crawling and low speed trails. i will mainly need high end for mud bogs.

I do have the 2.5 inch shorty headers with 1 5/8 tubes. However i do have the 2.25 glasspacks.

Will the cam you suggest xe 274 work with my setup, increasing top end without sacrificing low end? I dont want to do heads and intake again at this time.

Thanks.
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Old 10-21-2007, 08:30 AM   #4 (permalink)
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Re: 351w estimated HP

Here is a graph of the performer rpm stuff. Edelbrock.com - Power Package - Top End Kits - Ford

I would at least try changing the intake to a performer rpm..All the parts your using are simply done by 5500 rpms..Do you have clearance issues with the headers?..Long tubes should actually help low end torque and 2 1/2 pipes would help it on the top end...I saw an increase in my 302 going from a 2 1/4 to 2 1/2...Also some glass pac mufflers are actually quite restrictive.
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Old 10-21-2007, 09:06 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Re: 351w estimated HP

thanks frdnut. Yes, i contemplated the RPM package, however decided on the performance becouse of the needed low end torque. Dont get me wrong, the 351w end result is runing really strong. I can even lift a fornt wheel starting in 2nd gear 2h. Its got awesome power but runs out of juice at about 5000 rpm. I will like to extend the powerband up to 6500 rpms.
I do not pretend to be an expert engine builder. That is the reason for me being here with the experts. I have learned a lot on here. I am confused when you say the glasspacks are restrictive!!! I have the dynomax trush glasspacks that are actually straight pipes!!! i see no way of it being restrictive. Am i missing something??

I will be willing to swap headers and even a rpm intake, but will i get a mismatch engine and actually lose sometning??

Anyway, what is the estimated HP of my actual setup?? low 300's?? hi 300's??
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Old 10-21-2007, 03:14 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Re: 351w estimated HP

Do you want an estimate of HP for bragging rights??? Go to a chassis dyno and get it tuned then make power runs and you will have REAL numbers. To answere your question and considering for all we know compression could be 8.5:1, I would guess 300 at the crank.
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Old 10-21-2007, 03:22 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Re: 351w estimated HP

Quote:
Originally Posted by ljeeper View Post
hi,



Details...

I was given a free 351w 1974 shortblock that had a fresh rebuilt with 0.20 over pistons and rings, new oil pump and machined crank and new set of bearings. Stock rods.
My bad! I didnt realize you bored that 351 0.20", you know that equates into 388 cubic inches. I take back my estimate of 300, those 388" should give you 400hp easy.
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Old 10-21-2007, 03:38 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Re: 351w estimated HP

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Originally Posted by james302 View Post
My bad! I didnt realize you bored that 351 0.20", you know that equates into 388 cubic inches. I take back my estimate of 300, those 388" should give you 400hp easy.

lol!
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Old 10-21-2007, 06:31 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Re: 351w estimated HP

Probably 275 to 290 is more realistic. Maybe high at that.
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Old 10-22-2007, 10:03 AM   #10 (permalink)
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Re: 351w estimated HP

Thanks. No need to make fun for a typing error.

Going back to HP level, i would be frustrated to know i didnt make it to the 300hp level after investing so much in the engine.

According to your experiences, what will be the best practical and economical way to take it to 350 + HP??? Also increase the power curve to 6K or 6.5K rpms?
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Old 10-22-2007, 11:25 AM   #11 (permalink)
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Re: 351w estimated HP

Quote:
Originally Posted by ljeeper View Post
Thanks. No need to make fun for a typing error.

Going back to HP level, i would be frustrated to know i didnt make it to the 300hp level after investing so much in the engine.

According to your experiences, what will be the best practical and economical way to take it to 350 + HP??? Also increase the power curve to 6K or 6.5K rpms?
I think you are in the 350 hp ballpark..If the performer rpm top end makes 400ish hp with a 9.1 motor you can't be too far from that...The problem is the parts are made to work within a certain rpm range..The performer stuff justs isn't meant to pull to 6500 rpm...Changing the intake and cam would be a big step towards getting the extra rpms you want...I hate to recommend cams because I am certainly not an expert on the subject (especially off road stuff)and I figured you would get some more input here...If you really want to get the most you can out of your combo go here. Camshaft Innovations - Home Jay Allen does custom cams or may be able to recommend an off the shelf cam for you if one exists that will work..Also lots of good info at SBFTECH.com Experienced Small Block Ford Tech - Index

Do you happen to have your cam specs?...I can't seem to find a performer camshaft..I found a performer plus but I don't know if its the same or not?...It is a very small camshaft 204/214@.050 and .448-.472 Definetly not gonna pull to 6-6500 rpms in a 355 cu.in motor.
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Last edited by frdnut; 10-22-2007 at 11:48 AM.
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Old 10-22-2007, 03:29 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Re: 351w estimated HP

Quote:
Originally Posted by ljeeper View Post
Thanks. No need to make fun for a typing error.

Going back to HP level, i would be frustrated to know i didnt make it to the 300hp level after investing so much in the engine.

According to your experiences, what will be the best practical and economical way to take it to 350 + HP??? Also increase the power curve to 6K or 6.5K rpms?
As mentioned above, an intake upgrade will help a lot. Either the Edelbrock RPM or a Weiand Stealth would be my choice.

The other thing it needs is more cam. I'd pick something in between the Performer cam and the Performer RPM cam. I'd go closer to the RPM cam as the Performer is very small, not much bigger than stock. I'd go with maybe 216-220 degrees @ 0.050" for the intake and somewhere around 222-228 degrees exhaust. It might lose a little power at very low rpm, but should gain a lot at higher rpm.

JMO,

paulie
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Last edited by plovett; 10-22-2007 at 03:35 PM.
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Old 10-22-2007, 03:37 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Re: 351w estimated HP

Thanks, I will be happy with 350 HP, however will like to increse the RPM range.
Yes, those are the specs of the cam i have. Edelbrock 2182 with an RPM range of idle to 5500.

I can consider a diferent cam and intake but not heads.....
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Old 10-22-2007, 04:02 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Re: 351w estimated HP

Quote:
Originally Posted by ljeeper View Post
Thanks, I will be happy with 350 HP, however will like to increse the RPM range.
Yes, those are the specs of the cam i have. Edelbrock 2182 with an RPM range of idle to 5500.

I can consider a diferent cam and intake but not heads.....

How about the Compcams [SIZE=1]X4262H? It's 218/226 degees @ 0.050", 262/270 degrees advertised, 111 degree lobe separation, and .493/.512" lift. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=1][/SIZE]
[SIZE=1]I think that'd get you to 6000 rpm with a better intake.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=1][/SIZE]
[SIZE=1]For comparison the Edelbrock Performer cam is only 204/214 degrees @0.050", but 270/280 degrees advertised. I think the Edelbrock RPM cam is 224/234 degrees @0.050".[/SIZE]
[SIZE=1][/SIZE]
[SIZE=1]Also, the Compcams cam's lower seat duration will help with your presumably fairly low compression ratio. It is possible that you could gain power throughout the entire rpm range due to the Compcams more aggressive lobes.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=1][/SIZE]
[SIZE=1]One other thought. A new intake would be ideal, but room permitting, you might add a 1" spacer between your current intake and carb to gain more top end power and more rpm. You'd have to experiment to determine if your combo likes a 4 hole or an open spacer. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=1][/SIZE]
[SIZE=1]paulie[/SIZE]
[SIZE=1][/SIZE]
[SIZE=1][/SIZE]
[SIZE=1][/SIZE]
[SIZE=1]
[/SIZE]
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Old 10-22-2007, 04:13 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Re: 351w estimated HP

CHASSIS DYNO your current combo and you will know alot more about where you are at this time. You might find that playing with your timing curve and playing with jetting that there is a bit more power in your current combo, a few pulls with wide band will give you good enough data to make appropriate changes. Dont just throw money at it till its fast, you have some good parts on it now. If I changed anything it would be the cam but I wouldnt go with much more duration considering low-low end torque is your friend in rock crawling.
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