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Old 04-30-2008, 10:53 AM   #1 (permalink)
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AOD torque converter selection

I got no responce in the c4 forum so I will post it here.

OK. guys I have one for you that has been asked way too much.

I have a 63 Galaxie Country Sedan (station wagon) I have a 351w in it with an AOD. I rebuilt the tranny with a friend of mine two years ago. I put a Transgo shift kit in it. I currently have the stock converter 1800 stall. I have an Isky rv cam in it it is a 256/262. The cams rpm range is 1800 to 5000. I use the car for towing my trailer. I have stock heads on it with the exception that I hogged out the exhaust ports on the heads. Edelbrock performer rpm intake with 625 cfm carter carb. I am running either a 235/70r15 or a 225/70r15 rear tires. I am also running a 3.70 rear gear in a 9" traction lock.

How much stall should I go with? I drive this car on the road. I would like it to launch better of the line.

What is the difference between lock up and non lock up converter? And what are the advantages / disadvantages?


Larry
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Old 04-30-2008, 11:33 AM   #2 (permalink)
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Re: AOD torque converter selection

Actually, I just had my AOD rebuilt for street/strip use. The shop recommended I convert to non-lockup, and their torque converter supplier suggested I stick with the 1800 rpm stall, stock diameter converter. Well, They were both right. The non-lockup made a HUGE difference in how the engine pulls into the higher rpm range, and it has MUCH better drivability now. I haven't towed anything yet, but I'm sure it will pull like an ox. BTW, this is in a 4000lb truck with a 347, and a cam similar to yours.
-J
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Old 04-30-2008, 12:12 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Re: AOD torque converter selection

Do you get a better launch off of the line now? Don't you have to replace the input shaft to go with a non lockup converter or is it the opposite?

Larry
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Old 04-30-2008, 01:00 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Re: AOD torque converter selection

Yes, definately better launch, and the trans now shifts at a better point in the power band than before. RPM's used to dip real low when going into 3rd gear, but non-lockup conversion fixed that. As far as I understand it, the input shaft AND torque converter have to be changed, but there may be more.
-J
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Old 04-30-2008, 01:22 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Re: AOD torque converter selection

I think the whole tranny needs to come apart in order to change that shaft. Don't know if I want to do that again.

Larry
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Old 04-30-2008, 06:17 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Re: AOD torque converter selection

I'd probably stick with what you have, stall converters are not the greatest for towing, you have a pretty heavy car. A performer or steath would give a bit more low rpm tq but not much. The carter carb is SO SO, an annular demon 525-575 would really help down low, demon numbers look small but they flow way more, a 525 will flow about as much as your carter yet give better low end and throttle response.

Have you messed with your timing? try advancing it a bit, do you have a good exhaust system?

Other than that, a 460 would help......or how about something really different....a powerstroke or cummins turbo diesel.....20+ mpg's and you will smoke the tires pulling the airstream.....just a thought.......nice car!
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Old 05-01-2008, 08:36 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Re: AOD torque converter selection

I have stock exhaust manifolds on it right now. I have a buddy that has a set of headers that I think might fit. It is hard to find headers that will fit this car. Pretty tight spaces under that hood. I am running a 2 1/2" exhaust pipe with a H pipe crossover and a set of flowmasters on it.

My distributer is tired. It is a stock Duraspark. I was thinking about replacing the dizzy with a Mallory and possibly get one of their 6al boxes. I will look into the carb thing. Is that carb called the street demon?

A diesel would be really different. They do get pretty good mileage. Torquey beasts they are.

Larry
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Old 05-01-2008, 11:41 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Re: AOD torque converter selection

It is easy and cheap to put new bushings in a distributor. For your application you really want that vacuum advance. Without the vacuum advance your mileage will drop signifigantly.
Holley makes some carbs that are set up for towing applications. They utilize the progressive power valves and thus give better mileage than their performance or street performance carbs. Call your local Holley distributor and let him know what you are doing with the car. He can point you to the right carb.
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Old 05-02-2008, 07:42 AM   #9 (permalink)
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Re: AOD torque converter selection

Paul,

That is right. I forgot about the vacume advance. Well I might just look in to putting new bushings back into it the old duraspark. Thanks for the advice.

Larry
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Old 05-03-2008, 08:19 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Re: AOD torque converter selection

throw some headers on there, you will see a nice increase in power, I would have your dist re-curved and use the vacuum advance. What 351w are you using? what is the compression ratio? say you had a 69 4bbl block and the isky cam....you would be fighting yourself as you couldnt have any timing..

If its a 8.8-9.1 351w, then your initail timing should be about 12-15 degs and and 32-36 by 3200.

For the best low end, you want the highest cyl pressure with out ping.
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Old 05-03-2008, 09:24 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Re: AOD torque converter selection

Yeah, headers should bump up the power by at least 10hp and bring your powerband up too. Your engine will be able to breathe then. You might like the Hooker SuperComp's.....that's what I'm running. Got them Jet Hot coated + headers for $560 shipped out the door.
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Old 05-03-2008, 10:05 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Re: AOD torque converter selection

Be careful about eliminating the lockup converter! Sure, a non-lockup will let the engine run more RPM at a given MPH for better pulling and the converter will be multiplying engine torque as it should, BUT, you will be making HEAT, and lots of it!! Burning a lot more gas, too! I doubt an add-on cooler would help. You can only pump so much fluid through a cooler, no matter how big it is. When under load, a non-lockup converter "slips" as part of it's design, maybe 200-300 RPM or more. This 'shearing' of oil by the converter's fins is what builds heat. Hot fluid cooks seals. Too hot, and it foams and expands and pukes out the filler tube onto the exhaust. Then you have billowing clouds of white smoke out the back! I work for a government fleet in Arizona. When a vehicle with a failed lockup feature in the converter (usually electrical) goes from Phoenix at 1,000 ft. to Flagstaff at 7,000 ft., the tranny often pukes and the tow truck comes. Overdrive makes this worse, as in OD the engine is running only a few hundred RPM above stall speed, so there's significant slippage without lockup. Imagine if you had a 22-2400 RPM stall! I'd suggest finding a wrecked 90-95 F150 with a 351W and grabbing the entire fuel injection system with wiring harness and pump, etc. and transplanting it onto your Galaxie. The long runners of the intake build low RPM velocity of the fuel mixture which will raise low RPM torque significantly.
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Old 05-05-2008, 09:28 AM   #13 (permalink)
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Re: AOD torque converter selection

Quote:
Originally Posted by htwheelz67 View Post
throw some headers on there, you will see a nice increase in power, I would have your dist re-curved and use the vacuum advance. What 351w are you using? what is the compression ratio? say you had a 69 4bbl block and the isky cam....you would be fighting yourself as you couldnt have any timing..

If its a 8.8-9.1 351w, then your initail timing should be about 12-15 degs and and 32-36 by 3200.

For the best low end, you want the highest cyl pressure with out ping.

The block is a 1978. I suspect that the compression is pretty low. I think I am going to do the header thing and have the dizzy recurved. I found a place in Tacoma that will get me a a rebuilt dizzy and have it recurved for $140. I think this is the route I am going to go.

Larry
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Old 05-05-2008, 09:33 AM   #14 (permalink)
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Re: AOD torque converter selection

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spali32 View Post
Yeah, headers should bump up the power by at least 10hp and bring your powerband up too. Your engine will be able to breathe then. You might like the Hooker SuperComp's.....that's what I'm running. Got them Jet Hot coated + headers for $560 shipped out the door.

Hey Spali,

The problem is finding headers that will fit in the Galaxie. There is not a lot of room for headers in this car.

Larry
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Old 05-05-2008, 09:39 AM   #15 (permalink)
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Re: AOD torque converter selection

Quote:
Originally Posted by 67Coug View Post
Be careful about eliminating the lockup converter! Sure, a non-lockup will let the engine run more RPM at a given MPH for better pulling and the converter will be multiplying engine torque as it should, BUT, you will be making HEAT, and lots of it!! Burning a lot more gas, too! I doubt an add-on cooler would help. You can only pump so much fluid through a cooler, no matter how big it is. When under load, a non-lockup converter "slips" as part of it's design, maybe 200-300 RPM or more. This 'shearing' of oil by the converter's fins is what builds heat. Hot fluid cooks seals. Too hot, and it foams and expands and pukes out the filler tube onto the exhaust. Then you have billowing clouds of white smoke out the back! I work for a government fleet in Arizona. When a vehicle with a failed lockup feature in the converter (usually electrical) goes from Phoenix at 1,000 ft. to Flagstaff at 7,000 ft., the tranny often pukes and the tow truck comes. Overdrive makes this worse, as in OD the engine is running only a few hundred RPM above stall speed, so there's significant slippage without lockup. Imagine if you had a 22-2400 RPM stall! I'd suggest finding a wrecked 90-95 F150 with a 351W and grabbing the entire fuel injection system with wiring harness and pump, etc. and transplanting it onto your Galaxie. The long runners of the intake build low RPM velocity of the fuel mixture which will raise low RPM torque significantly.
67coug,

I think I am going to just wait on the torque converter. When I do tow I never put the tranny in 4th. I stick to 3rd.

I would love to be able to buy a fuel injection system but that is just not in the near future for me. Could be quite spendy to do that.

Larry
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Last edited by jrdufresne; 05-05-2008 at 09:41 AM.
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