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Old 06-17-2008, 07:16 AM   #1 (permalink)
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SWAP, 351M FOR 351windsor

Good morning .

I would like to ask if any one knows of any links and or site pages that just simply explains what is involved in changing a 1977, 1978, 1979, 351 M frame / ford truck 4X4 with a C-6 transmission (351M bellhousing),.. over to........
.....an early 1980s to 1987, 351 Windsor motor.

I have been searching quite a bit for about a year now (when i have time) and have not come across a page, post, or article, that descisively and basically just explains with pictures how to do this swap. And I have searched far and wide.
I have come up with the fact that I need
the "351 Windsor" to C-6 bellhousing, it should bolt right to my 77,78,79,C-6 transmission body.
(I have three windsors but sold my other 351W C-6.)
I need to know what "stock" J-yard motor mounts I could use, or what company makes a set.
(Not an over priced pro-comp alloy milled set, mind you.)

Any legitimate, straight up info, hands on experience, links, etc, very much appreciated.

Why amI doing this, ?
Because 351Ws are a dime a dozen.

Why dont I just hang one of the windsors in and see whats up, ?
Cause its a pain in the arse to do mock ups, and on this one I just want to mount it up and worry about the little problems after the big fish is landed.

Thank you in advance for the help.
Keep on truckin.

Last edited by frankenford; 06-17-2008 at 07:42 AM.
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Old 06-17-2008, 07:27 AM   #2 (permalink)
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Re: SWAP, 351M FOR 351windsor

xxx
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Last edited by ckelly; 06-24-2008 at 09:06 PM.
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Old 06-17-2008, 07:45 AM   #3 (permalink)
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Re: SWAP, 351M FOR 351windsor

Thank you CKELLY.
Checked out some of your posts and car stuff.
Not bad.

Last edited by frankenford; 07-01-2008 at 08:21 AM.
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Old 06-17-2008, 11:26 AM   #4 (permalink)
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Re: SWAP, 351M FOR 351windsor

Find a junk truck of that year with a 302. You will need the motor mounts. I think (but not sure) that the 351M uses the 429/460 bellhousing. (?? corrections welcome if wrong! )
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Old 06-17-2008, 11:41 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Re: SWAP, 351M FOR 351windsor

the transmission is different (c6 has a one piece case so the whole thing will have to be changed, if you have a lot of money in the trans you can have the belhousing cut off and a replacement bolted in it's place (drag racers do this all the time for safety reasons )) and the motor mounts are different.
john_bud is right the easiest way would be to get a donor truck.

1973 - 1979 F-100 And Larger F-Series Trucks - Ford Truck Enthusiasts Forums is a 73-79 ford pickup specific forum. do a search there and you will probably find your answer.
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Old 06-17-2008, 11:56 AM   #6 (permalink)
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Re: SWAP, 351M FOR 351windsor

Quote:
Originally Posted by frankenford View Post
Good morning .

I would like to ask if any one knows of any links and or site pages that just simply explains what is involved in changing a 1977, 1978, 1979, 351 M frame / ford truck 4X4 with a C-6 transmission (351M bellhousing),.. over to........
.....an early 1980s to 1987, 351 Windsor motor.

I have been searching quite a bit for about a year now (when i have time) and have not come across a page, post, or article, that descisively and basically just explains with pictures how to do this swap. And I have searched far and wide.
I have come up with the fact that I need
the "351 Windsor" to C-6 bellhousing, it should bolt right to my 77,78,79,C-6 transmission body.
(I have three windsors but sold my other 351W C-6.)
I need to know what "stock" J-yard motor mounts I could use, or what company makes a set.
(Not an over priced pro-comp alloy milled set, mind you.)

Any legitimate, straight up info, hands on experience, links, etc, very much appreciated.

Why amI doing this, ?
Because 351Ws are a dime a dozen.

Why dont I just hang one of the windsors in and see whats up, ?
Cause its a pain in the arse to do mock ups, and on this one I just want to mount it up and worry about the little problems after the big fish is landed.

Thank you in advance for the help.
Keep on truckin.
With a little bit of effort you can build a stout 351m street motor, it doesn't deserve the level of bad rap. Plus your truck will be more valuable with the original motor as it becomes a near classic. And if going fast for cheap is on your mind, the 460 swap is a near bolt in swap.

Just a thought...
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Old 06-17-2008, 12:14 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Re: SWAP, 351M FOR 351windsor

Thank you so far.
Am searching like a feind for the last hour or two.
Getting the "project fires" burning again.
Correct, C-6s body integral with main body, I forgot.
But are tails interchangable, and compatable for the
Ford NP205 ?
And or is the 1973 to 1979 C-6, (body and bell housing NOT TAIL) the same length through 1980 to 1987 ?
(Taking transmision mount holes
into consideration also.)

Cutting, shortening or lengthening drive shaft is not
an issue.

Now this truck probably wont see alot of "heavy" wheeling,
its more of a restore, but
would a C-4 be to small, (weak), behind a 351W ?
Also found "universal motormount kits" on the web.
Sorting through them now.
I could "fab my own" but if someone else already has, or produces them id rahther just buy them and be done with it.

And a doner vehicle is one of my considerations.
So a 1973 to 1979 F100 orF150 with a 302 ?
Now are the top to block mating surfaces bolt holes the same , will they match all windsors up to 1987 ?

Thanks everyone so far, for advice, and know how.
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Old 06-17-2008, 12:18 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Re: SWAP, 351M FOR 351windsor

Pace, yes your right, but no its not about 351M bad rap.
I like the motor (351M).
Just setting up for quick replacement.
Not too worried about keeping it completely original right now, what im doing will be surely rare if not one of a kind.

Thanks for the reply.
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Old 06-17-2008, 12:35 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Re: SWAP, 351M FOR 351windsor

Here is exactly what you'll need to change:
You will need to swap your BBF C6 for a SBF C6, or you could use a C4 so long as the motor is slightly warmed over from stock.

You will need to change motor mounts. ANY SBF mounts will work, even factory ones unless your producing 700+ HP.

Trans cross member. If you stick with a C6 you shouldn't have to worry about a thing, however if you go to a C4 make sure you get the cross member from the vehicle thats donating the C4 (try to stick with truck doners here).

Drive shaft. So long as you stick with the C6 you shouldn't have a problem, however if you switch to a C4 you'll have to get a longer one as well as the output yolk that came with your C4.

I hope this was helpful.
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Old 06-18-2008, 08:08 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Re: SWAP, 351M FOR 351windsor

Quote:
Originally Posted by torkair View Post
Here is exactly what you'll need to change: .......
I hope this was helpful.
Yes very helpfull, thank you lots.

P.S. Oh, almost forgot, thought this link to some old school stuff might be interesting for those hangin around......
[ Atlas F1 Bulletin Board - British saloon car racing of the 1960s and 1970s ]

Last edited by frankenford; 06-18-2008 at 08:17 PM.
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Old 06-24-2008, 08:21 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Re: SWAP, 351M FOR 351windsor

Where im at.......
Like explained here, it looks like a small block "caseing" C-6, is in order, ( to go on the 351 Windsor replacement ) and I know just the doner truck to get it from.
So ill get another 351 Windsor "and" the C-6 behind it.

The motor mounts hopefully "will" be the early (1977 F150 / 302 what im trying....)
F150 with a 302 egine configuration.
I looked at and measured a new set today.
Im going to just getting it seated (in frame) and then ill figure the rest out.

I talked to an old timer today (transmission tech / rebuilder, at "Cottmans" Boston) and he said after the tails off they are all the same (?) so it should mount right up to the NP 208.
(I have a problem with not believing it untill I see it.)

Ill try to get some pictures when I get all the parts together and ready to mock up.

Thanks for every ones advice so far.

Last edited by frankenford; 06-24-2008 at 08:25 PM.
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Old 06-30-2008, 08:34 AM   #12 (permalink)
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Re: SWAP, 351M FOR 351windsor

Cant post pictures yet, so ill just post the info anyway,
O,K (pictures) I figured it out,.......

so far the 351M for 351W swap looks pretty straight forward, the 1977 302 mounts work, just have to put the transmissions side by side and check tail configurations.


The 351Windsor block (1986-87 carbd) mock installed in the 1979 Bronco frame.
The motor mounts are for a 1977 Ford F-150 with
a 302 cid motor / automatic transmission.
Original engine mount frame towers are not changed or altered, the block comes to rest against the face of the BigBell housing C-6,........
(torque converter, pump shaft , flywheel and blocks dust/dirt plate are removed for they will not line up just for mock-up purposes,).
The line up of crank and transmission input seems slightly off but I would say that will work out in the final bolt up.
So swapping the small block bell housing C-6 is looking
good so far. Will put them both side by side with tails removed and see if there will be any problems.

Last edited by frankenford; 07-01-2008 at 08:24 AM.
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Old 07-01-2008, 06:02 AM   #13 (permalink)
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Re: SWAP, 351M FOR 351windsor

First picture, see above post for short explaination.
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