Brake bleeding issues. - Page 49 - Ford Muscle Forums : Ford Muscle Cars Tech Forum

KULTULZ · 01-17-2013, 09:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dennis111 POST #79 8-29-2012

If you expect the piston to fully retract into the caliper bore on its own, it ain't happening because there is nothing built into a disk brake system to create a force on the piston to make it retract.

Disc brakes maintain a slight drag and only retract from road vibration, rotor flex, wheel bearing slop, and rotational forces. Release the pedal and the fluid leaves the caliper and there is zero pressure being applied to the pad, but contact will still be made. There are no mechanical devices built in to cause retraction, like the springs used in drum brakes.

I see no problem with what you found if you are able to hand turn the rotor after releasing the brakes AND that it is possible to retract the pistons manually with a C clamp or other device.

Now if you have a MC that was designed for 4 wheel drum brakes and it has a residual valve for the front brakes, THEN the pressure on the caliper will not bleed off quickly enough to allow the rotor to turn. Been there, done that.

I was carousing with my browser to try and find the post by DanV I was referring to and came across this post of yours-

Would you care to qualify these statements?

KULTULZ · 01-17-2013, 09:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dennis111 POST #427 12-09-2012

Hee Hee.

You got a wild hair?

Quote:

I tried using the Ford all-drum jelly jar MC when I converted to factory disc brakes some 32 years ago.

Attempting to use the 4 wheel drum single reservoir MC worked and gave a pedal (a good, strong pedal IIRC.) I do remember clearly that it did have 1 problem though--after pushing the pedal down the MC did not allow the front disc brake pressure to bleed off (as they have no return assist mechanisms like the drums do with their springs.) The results is that the disc brakes do not release in a timely fashion. The car would not move and it took several seconds or maybe minutes for the discs to be free again. I may have even cracked the line to get it free.

The drum MC was a known good unit that I was using just before the conversion to the factory discs. I simply replaced the drum MC with the proper disc/drum jelly jar that had 2 separate outlets, (1 specifically for disc and the other for drum) and the system worked fine. A few years ago I upgraded that to a dual reservoir disc/drum MC from a Granada.

In hindsight it could have been that there was a little umbrella valve (residual??) that is located at the MC exit. It was used only for drum applications.

KULTULZ · 01-17-2013, 09:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FEandGoingBroke

OK K,

You wrote it before. What post was it in? I did skip a lot of these replies a few pages back....

You and a few others...

KULTULZ · 01-17-2013, 09:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by puttster

boys, you are taking up public space for your private agendas. Why not handle this through pm's?

buzz-off!

KULTULZ · 01-17-2013, 09:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dennis111

So now I feel challenged to prove that valving is the difference between a disc and a drum MC.

Unlike Klutz, I understand what is going on from actual experience.

I understand your feeling of being challenged. Your posts demonstrate it.

I think I finally broke through on your thought processes. You mean to tell me all of that CUT & PASTE was to explain the difference(s) between a DRUM MC and a DISC/DRUM MC?

What the hell has everyone been discussing all along? You just wake up? That wild hair interrupting your sleep?

And my actual experience never involved powering disc brakes with a drum MC.

I think you may need some quality time with DanH. Maybe exchange a few medications.

FEandGoingBroke · 01-17-2013, 09:55 PM

OMH this is getting funny. lard.... That was rich! I am guffawing at that one, but only cause it's funny!

Dan, Why not delete this entire thread. You already KNOW how to BLEED a master cylinder, that's not been talked abotu for 39 pages

RAGGAREN · 01-17-2013, 10:20 PM

yeehaaw.....
sure love a good...Rodeo...

time to bring out the Rodeo Clown's...carouse the bull......YEEHAW.....

DanH · 01-17-2013, 10:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KULTULZ

I understand your feeling of being challenged. Your posts demonstrate it.

I think I finally broke through on your thought processes. You mean to tell me all of that CUT & PASTE was to explain the difference(s) between a DRUM MC and a DISC/DRUM MC?

What the hell has everyone been discussing all along? You just wake up? That wild hair interrupting your sleep?

And my actual experience never involved powering disc brakes with a drum MC.

I think you may need some quality time with DanH. Maybe exchange a few medications.

klutz , time for more Prep.H on your lips . apply a double dose , that miight not be enough , use it all . I doubt it will be the cure or help you , but give it a try .

ShotRod64 · 01-17-2013, 11:11 PM

I think that 728 posts are about 718 too many or 700 to be generous. Geeze!

As for the check valve i only said i noticed that as a difference in the 2 MCs what the h it means in operation don't ask me other than one is more restricted than the other.

KULTULZ · 01-18-2013, 04:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RAGGAREN

yeehaaw.....

sure love a good...Rodeo...

time to bring out the Rodeo Clown's...carouse the bull......YEEHAW.....

Your many IN-LAWS coming over in that little funny foreign car again?

DanH · 01-18-2013, 05:17 AM

ShotRod64 , my guess is that the check valve is just another type of resdual valve . the drum brake m/c being more restricted would depend on the valves flow . the brake lines most likely are the flow restiction . lines control the rate of flow , the the m/c with or without check valve has a limited flow rate at a given pressure add- due to the line size

RAGGAREN · 01-18-2013, 05:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KULTULZ

Your many IN-LAWS coming over in that little funny foreign car again?

only need one..riding in on one wheel ,one set of pedals and a seat....

go git em grandma....YEEHAW.....

danv · 01-20-2013, 08:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FEandGoingBroke

.......which is probably 2 to 2.25 inches of travel at the master cylinder?

FeGoB, I did some checks on the weekend.
Although they are a little more that the 1" stroke which I thought they were. I guess I must have thought that because the bench bleeding instructions state to stroke the cylinder to 3/4"-1" but never bottom it out.

Out in the shed I went.
The Corvette MC in this brake kit has a stroke of 1 3/8".
The single pot which I experimented with last week has a stroke of 1 1/8".
The original single pot which was on the car when I got it has a stroke of 1 3/8".
I don't know what the current Ford MC on the car has.

KULTULZ · 01-21-2013, 02:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by danv

FeGoB, I did some checks on the weekend.

Although they are a little more that the 1" stroke which I thought they were. I guess I must have thought that because the bench bleeding instructions state to stroke the cylinder to 3/4"-1" but never bottom it out.

Out in the shed I went.
The Corvette MC in this brake kit has a stroke of 1 3/8".
The single pot which I experimented with last week has a stroke of 1 1/8".
The original single pot which was on the car when I got it has a stroke of 1 3/8".

I don't know what the current Ford MC on the car has.

FEandGoingBroke · 01-21-2013, 08:38 AM

Kultulz is making me hungry....

The Corvette MC in this brake kit has a stroke of 1 3/8".
The single pot which I experimented with last week has a stroke of 1 1/8".
The original single pot which was on the car when I got it has a stroke of 1 3/8".

OK Dan, That's what I wanted to hear. I am still unable to come up with any further advice or suggestions, as nothing stood out from those measurements to me.

Maybe K will after he eats his popcorn.