Hey guys....my question is simple so here it is. Soon I will be putting the 302 in my '88 ranger so I can race it this summer and what I wanna know is everyone's opinion. I'm debating weather to go with a c-4 auto tranny or a 4-speed manual. The truck is an original 5-speed unit so it already has a clutch pedal. I'm thinkin a 4-speed may be cheaper and easier but an auto would be more consistant. Pretty sure I can launch it harder than with the auto as with that option I would be leaving on a foot brake to start out with. What do y'all think?
Thanks guys!
Tony
Asking a question like that is a good way to start a fight on the internet. Just wait and see........
I'll tell you my opinion first. If you are bracket racing, don't waste your time with a factory stick shift/street tranny. Automatic is the RIGHT way to go. Stick shift are hard on parts. Inconsistent. Unrepeatable. Hard to launch. High maintenance. Costly! Worthless! Period! I've tried. It ain't worth your time.
That being said, there will be a lot of guys on here that will tell you that a stick shift is the only way to go. Whatever.....!
If you are just playing around on the street, an stick shift will do fine and be fun. They are not made to race repeatably
A C4 is the lightest weight automatic available. With the right converter it can and will be quicker than a stick shift and very repeatable. I know that will tick lot of people off but it's true.
Another option , if you've got the money, is buy a dedicated "race" only manual trans. Something from G-Force or Liberty or Jerico will do nicely on the track and be repeatable but still not as reliable as a C4.
__________________
Grabber Green \'70 Mach I 351C 4V 12.32 at 111mph 1.63 60ft. time
Robin Egg Blue \'79 Fairmont 408C 4V 10.50 at 127mph 1.38 60ft. time
Last edited by clevelandstyle; 12-29-2012 at 03:08 PM.
+1 to all of clevelandstyle's statements. Also, you can actually launch harder (as opposed to greater driveline shock load) with an auto, as the torque converter multiplies the torque on launch. This is why most of the wheel-stands you see are auto cars. I am also a "stick-on-the-street" guy, and for other driving like road racing, auto-X, etc. But, for most drag, it's auto or jumping all the way to pro-level stick. BTW, rebuilding the C4 for racing is generally less expensive than rebuilding and prepping a manual anything for the same purpose.
David
__________________
-=≡ If it was easy everyone would do it ≡=-
There are tracks with dedicated stick shift classes, Dennis111s home town track is one of them. In his case a manual transmission makes sense. Watch some of his videos, he makes it look easy. I know it's not, I run a C4.
I suggest that the OP run whatever turns him on. The decision is a personal one.
I try to stay out of such debates, but when properly done and with enough experience, a stick car can be every bit as consistent as an auto. I race in a club with stick guys from all over the northeast (VA, PA, MD)-most are deadly consistent-running high 7's up to 11.99 1/4 miles. Luckily several are also from my home track.
As proof of consistency, I offer a fellow racer, Dan Hoyler. Mustang, 331, T5 and an H pattern shifter. He has won the 10.5 second index World Championship Finals at MIR (Budds Creek) 3 years in a row (2010, 2011, and 2012)--a field that should be dominated by the automatics racing the class.
__________________
Dennis
65' STANG, Dart 428W NA, Toploader 4 Spd, 4:33, AFR 205's, Vic Jr. Intake, 950HP DP, 11.1 CR, Pump Gas
+1 to all of clevelandstyle's statements. Also, you can actually launch harder (as opposed to greater driveline shock load) with an auto, as the torque converter multiplies the torque on launch. This is why most of the wheel-stands you see are auto cars. I am also a "stick-on-the-street" guy, and for other driving like road racing, auto-X, etc. But, for most drag, it's auto or jumping all the way to pro-level stick. BTW, rebuilding the C4 for racing is generally less expensive than rebuilding and prepping a manual anything for the same purpose.
David
just the trans . at the same level , cost is about the same for auto vs stick
__________________
a KLUTZ in a Auto Shop is like a bull in a China Shop
A serious, successful stick shift racer will also spend as much on his clutch/pressure plate as he does on the trans.
Still your going to break stuff. A lot of stuff. Right Dennis?
__________________
Grabber Green \'70 Mach I 351C 4V 12.32 at 111mph 1.63 60ft. time
Robin Egg Blue \'79 Fairmont 408C 4V 10.50 at 127mph 1.38 60ft. time
Hey guys....my question is simple so here it is. Soon I will be putting the 302 in my '88 ranger so I can race it this summer and what I wanna know is everyone's opinion. I'm debating weather to go with a c-4 auto tranny or a 4-speed manual. The truck is an original 5-speed unit so it already has a clutch pedal. I'm thinkin a 4-speed may be cheaper and easier but an auto would be more consistant. Pretty sure I can launch it harder than with the auto as with that option I would be leaving on a foot brake to start out with. What do y'all think?
Thanks guys!
Tony
Will the Ranger be dedicated to race use or will you be driving it on the street also? Do you already have the 4-speed, is it a toploader? If you're driving it more than a couple thousand miles a year on the street an OD transmission would be a good option.
There are many options, some make more sense than others depending on the intended use of the truck.
Asking a question like that is a good way to start a fight on the internet. Just wait and see........
I'll tell you my opinion first. If you are bracket racing, don't waste your time with a factory stick shift/street tranny. Automatic is the RIGHT way to go. Stick shift are hard on parts. Inconsistent. Unrepeatable. Hard to launch. High maintenance. Costly! Worthless! Period! I've tried. It ain't worth your time.
That being said, there will be a lot of guys on here that will tell you that a stick shift is the only way to go. Whatever.....!
If you are just playing around on the street, an stick shift will do fine and be fun. They are not made to race repeatably
A C4 is the lightest weight automatic available. With the right converter it can and will be quicker than a stick shift and very repeatable. I know that will tick lot of people off but it's true.
Another option , if you've got the money, is buy a dedicated "race" only manual trans. Something from G-Force or Liberty or Jerico will do nicely on the track and be repeatable but still not as reliable as a C4.
I completely agree with this. Unless you're going with a clutchless type manual, that's a dedicated racing transmission, it takes a whole lot of time, money, and work to make the clutch work if you're going to go fast. Not that my car is "fast," but I started with a toploader, and my best time was an 11.36@119 with a 1.59 60'. I switched to a nice C4 with a good converter, and it's been 11.18@122 on a 1.52 60'. Added a small amount of nitrous, and it cut a 1.36 60', and went 9.92@134. I'll keep my C4.
__________________
1969 Mustang
11.18@122 - motor
9.92@134 - 71 jet
break stuff , sure will if not correct for the build .
Build it for how its used , cheaper doing it right the 1st time
Exactly. If it is not built for it you will always find the weak link-stick or auto. I always try to overbuild when I replace failed parts or creating new assemblys. I can attribute most of my failures to trying to make street car parts race-able, whereas if one purpose builds they should take everything that is related into account and build accordingly.
Actually my pile of parts due to breakage after over 1000 runs by overpowering stuff is quite small when you take away the parts that were not inferior to begin with.
Parts consumed include 3 or 4 second gears from speed shifting (stock ones which were later sent to Liberty to be converted to Proshift and then later Faceplated), 2 stock sychronizers, 2 twisted SBF input shafts (Ford knew of this issue and I corrected it their way by using the 1 3/8" input BBF shaft), some worn clutch disks and both a stock cast 28 spline plus a 31 spline transmission yoke which had twisted splines. Also a customized brass blocking ring broke plus a Caltrac shock mount (which was re-weldable.)
The remaining failures I can without a doubt blame on faulty parts or my lack of attention to detail.
Lost 1 fresh pro-shifted toploader on first launch due to trying a faulty aftermarket 2.90 first gear. Later research showed that it was a known issue that had happened to many, many others too. Knowing the problems with them, Dan Williams refused to sell the 100 gears that he had made. I start with stock 2.78 ratio stuff now.
Lost a 31 spline true track and axles. Discovered that the direct replacement 65/66 Mustang 31 spline Superior axles were not the same length as the 57 rear end housing that I used. Only about 3/4" of the spline was engaged in the Eaton True-Trac carrier-should have been over an inch. Lasted several years that way. Would have happened with an auto too. Replaced with the correct 33 spline axles and a spool. Car launched much better with the spool so this was a bonus.
Lost a RH front tire at speed. Lost starters. Lost an engine crankshaft pulley. Lost an engine due to needle bearings. Jammed shifter linkage.
No U-joint failures, no driveshaft failures, no clutch failures.
I do run a single disk racing slipper clutch which cuts done on breakage (even though I never broke stuff using a Centerforce Dual Friction or a Spec either.) The clutch does need serviced every couple hundred runs (yearly), but unlike converters, I can change engine combinations and yet continue to run the same clutch. My neighbor still uses a single disc clutch like mine on his 7.84 second 170mph 1/4 mile rocket.
I actually spend more money per year on slicks than I do the clutch. We are talking 100's of runs on both. I do very little actual maintenance to the car during the year, mostly tweaks and trying new things. Clutch maintenance consist of rechecking the base settings and maintaining the proper air gap and pedal height-with will last several race nights before actually needing this type of attention.
In summary I can say that the amount of fun that I have had competing in a stick car over the past 5 years (including a class championship) has far exceeded the actual cost of competing.
As I said before to the OP, the choice of stick or auto is a personal choice. Follow your heart as to what will satisfy you in the long run.
__________________
Dennis
65' STANG, Dart 428W NA, Toploader 4 Spd, 4:33, AFR 205's, Vic Jr. Intake, 950HP DP, 11.1 CR, Pump Gas
Racing with a stick IS possible, but it's also WAY easier with an automatic.
Plus, racing with a stick is FAR harder on the drivetrain, as shockloads are a bitch.
Automatic cars are also FAR more consistent on launch. Where stickshifts are often spinning (especially on marginally prepped tracks) when automatics are carrying the wheels.
Many of these downfalls to stickshifts can be mitigated with expensive adjustable clutches, but just buying one isn't enough. You've got to learn how to adjust them, and stay on top of them.
In conclusion, if you want early success in drag racing, go auto. If you want to break a bunch of drivetrain parts and eventually step up to some expensive clutch management... and experience a long learning curve... then you might consider a stick.
This is coming from someone who has always raced a stick. LOL
Whatever.....!
"I EAT Z28"
