puttster

In bending brake line, from the master down, does it matter if there is a vertical loop? It seems to me a bubble could get in there, one that gravity bleeding could not get out. But I never heard anyone say it would be a problem.

__________________
When you're going through hell, keep going.
Putts drives a 1965 four door Galaxie. Rebuilt 390. 4100 on a Performer, AC, PS, PB w scarebird front discs, COM MX transm w/3.0 R.E. The seats, dash and hood are customized.

PSIG

First, the ID of standard 3/16" brake line (about 1/8") will push the bubbles through as the fluid moves, so it's not an issue. Yes, it can be a collection point for micro bubbles to form into bigger bubbles, but that's OK. Once collected into tube-sized bubbles, they will bleed right out.

Second, the purpose of the loop in the line is for installation alignment, and provides easy vertical, horizontal, and angular adjustments to the alignment by hand. Rule-of-thumb: Unless your line is adjusted to sit (without holding) perfectly aligned with the fitting, you're chances of leaks at the fitting skyrocket. Unless you're really good as a custom line-bender, the loop allows "slack and give" to align the tube and fitting. Without it, tweaking alignment to avoid leaks is far more difficult. The loop does not have to be vertical, nor right at the fitting - but closer is better. HTH

David

__________________
-=≡ If it was easy everyone would do it ≡=-

KULTULZ

As long as the loop is below MC reservoir level.

__________________
DISCLAIMER-

The above posted information is in my opinion only. It may contain copy and paste material(s). Your opinion(s) and mileage may vary.

FEandGoingBroke

This is a misconception on your part sir.... The loop's position means nothing to the master cylinder, and would be just as efficient if it went up and over the hood to the tail light and back.

But... If a line were to be compromised at some point the fluid would drain by gravity back into the master... Just sayin...

__________________

http://www.vintagevehiclerestoration.com

PSIG

This is true. However, it would severely limit access to your engine and stuff in your trunk. It would also ruin your paint, as birds would stand on your brake lines and poop on your roof.

David

__________________
-=≡ If it was easy everyone would do it ≡=-

colkerr

I agree. I have lines above my m/c without issue. As long as the system is sealed as it should be all is good.


Sent from AutoGuide.com App

__________________

retyler

If you look at any Falcon you will see that the right hand brake line follows the upper edge of the fire wall and then bends down to the MC.

__________________
"Tell it like it is or don't tell it at all" 1964 Falcon 2dr HT, 347V8 4V, dual exhaust, 5sp, pwr assist R&P steering, AM radio, heater with defrost and 2sp fan, electric windshield wipers, cigar lighter, dlx light group, bucket seats, console and full carpet.

KULTULZ

So what you are saying basically is that as air is ingested into the system (natural) and the fluid breaks down emitting gases (natural) it is OK to have high loop?

Or is this what F implied?

As long as the loop (permitted) is below master cylinder fluid level and runs vertical it is OK (and preferable) If a high loop, the entrapped air will never migrate to the MC and will interfere with proper hydraulic pressure.

__________________
DISCLAIMER-

The above posted information is in my opinion only. It may contain copy and paste material(s). Your opinion(s) and mileage may vary.

Bryan59EC

65 Ranchero----completely unmolested except for an engine transplant in the 80s.

the right brake line leaves the master and continually declines to the right inner fender before it drops to the subframe level.
There is absolutely no line that is above the level of the output port of the
master.----------no loops either.

__________________
59 ElCamino-454/5-spd
66 ElCamino-307/5spd
65 Ranchero-289High Performance/4-spd-bought new by my uncle(now with a 302)

KULTULZ

Let me qualify this further-

The loop(s) fabrication should allow any ingested air to bleed upwards to the MC reservoir) to hopefully vent itself.

Attached Thumbnails

   

__________________
DISCLAIMER-

The above posted information is in my opinion only. It may contain copy and paste material(s). Your opinion(s) and mileage may vary.

ford4v429

I think horizontal loops are fine, long as they exit low end of the loop, air still will work its way to the top.

My neighbors old 79 fairmont had a line that ran up/across the firewall, thru the dash, inside the car to the rear, weird. It *might* have had a plastic reservoir higher than the line, but dont think so.

in speaking of brakeline air traps, theres always the rear upsweep to the hose tap, kinda unavoidable there- so maybe all this 'preferred' stuff is a moot point anyway? while that might be arguable, it still seems anything that makes bleeding easier and/or encourages self bleeding as much as possible makes sense

__________________
CONFIDENCE: that feeling you get just before you realize the mess you got yourself into...


Saving a 65 Galaxie

retyler

Take another look, and if you have a 64 service manual 2-14 fig 13 brake master install. Just went out in the garage to confirm. I used same clamps and location for new line and it definitely rises above the old masters inlet. You can call me a liar if you like.

__________________
"Tell it like it is or don't tell it at all" 1964 Falcon 2dr HT, 347V8 4V, dual exhaust, 5sp, pwr assist R&P steering, AM radio, heater with defrost and 2sp fan, electric windshield wipers, cigar lighter, dlx light group, bucket seats, console and full carpet.

Blue86hatch

My belief on a loop near the master cylinder is to allow the line to flex a small amount. The pressure applied every pump causes the line to flex. Over time that flex can fatigue the steel and cause a crack. The loop is a relief in the system to allow the flex.


Sent from AutoGuide.com Free App

Ranchero65

[QUOTE=Blue86hatch;1721735]My belief on a loop near the master cylinder is to allow the line to flex a small amount. The pressure applied every pump causes the line to flex. Over time that flex can fatigue the steel and cause a crack. The loop is a relief in the system to allow the flex.[/QUOTE]

This is what I always thought and that over time the firewall may flex when brakes applied so the lines need some flexibility to prevent them from failing.
I have seen on several occasions where the brake line have been above the master cylinder .

__________________
Take Care
Earl - Ranchero_65 Restomod Slowly in Process !
http://www.ranchero65.com

Have you had your PSA Checked Lately ?

FALCONAROUND

K, F here,

Your self bleeding theory of micro-bubbles is cool, but that's no reason to think that a loop going higher than the master will be detrimental to the operation nor to the proper bleeding.

If you can grasp the part about the air bubbles following the flow of the fluid you will understand what I mean.

Futhermore, it don't matter WHERE a brake system is routed. If a system is compromised and air enters the system the system will loose efficiency. The brake lines don't care if you twist it up or down. When air is gone the air is gone and everything is copacetic.

You cannot have any argument that makes sense about the brake line route going higher than the master cylinder if you do not take into consideration the below photo.



There were over a Million of these made from 1941 to 1952, and not one of them had braking issues. Care to guess where the brake master cylinder is located? (hint: under the floor pans)

Oh, my 1946 Chrysler Windsor Club Coupe was a 6500 LB car. with a single lung master cylinder drum brakes, master located under the floor pans, brake lines running up and over to the brakes, with the majority of the brake lines higher than the master cylinder, and I never had any braking issues nor bleeding issues....

So the actual loop or where it's located is pretty moot. I like PSIG's explanation about how it allows flex for positioning the master. Cause it sure as heck don't matter none to the fluid in the system...


Just my opinion...

Oh and another thing for the other guy's....

There is no such animal as an AIR CATCH in a brake system. There is no air in a properly bled system.

__________________
When my Gecko is broken, does that mean I have 'A REPTILE' Dysfunction?