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post #1 of 18 (permalink) Old 10-06-2015, 08:39 AM Thread Starter
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Developing a transmission plan for my car, input welcome...

The car: 70 Maverick 2 door
Purpose of build: Long distance touring car for 1 lap of America road trip.

Current motor: 250 inline six. approx 150-160 HP at flywheel

Plans for future motor: 87 and up 302 roller, GT40P, near stock cam, Holley 600, DUI dizzy(1 wire, no box), headers. ( 230-250 hp to start with, maybe more later)

Current transmission: C4 SBF bell, low mount starter, unknown year, unknown condition.
Developing a transmission plan for my car, input welcome...-c4-sbf-windsor-bell.jpg

current rear gears:3.00:1
Developing a transmission plan for my car, input welcome...-ford-8inch.jpg
planned rear gears: 3.80:1

I want an overdrive transmission for fuel efficiency. Not interested in how great a built C4 is...
I want an automatic transmission. Not interested in a manual for this build.

First idea for transmission change: install AOD because it has no electronic controls and can be installed in a custom car with no computer, and it bolts to any SBF winsor block and I can use the same trans with the 250 inline six motor I have and then the 302 i will build later.

down side to AOD: bad reputation for durability, poor performance (gearing), incorrectly adjusted TV cable can destroy transmission quickly.

Current idea: AOD case, 4R70W internals (older one with speedo gears), 4R70W torque converter, and flex plate, constant pressure valve body,

up side to 4R70W stuff in AOD case: still bolts to any SBF Windsor, no computer controls needed, lower first and second gears for better performance from same HP, heavier duty parts with much better reputation for durability, constant pressure valve body to eliminate TV cable and associated TV cable problems.

Questions:
1. Any down side to this setup?
2. is this the ideal transmission setup for a light highway car with no computers? (2400 lbs with a 250 and automatic)
3. Has anyone here had a trans like this built?
4. Can anyone help me put together a list of parts to get from each trans?
5 Did I miss anything that would prevent me from having this assembled by my trusted local transmission shop if I bring them all the right parts?
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post #2 of 18 (permalink) Old 10-06-2015, 10:11 AM
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Re: Developing a transmission plan for my car, input welcome...

For all of the reasons you've stated I'd not be spending my money on the AOD. As far as the exotic hybrid you're talking about I have no idea but I'm guessing money is no object because that isn't going to be cheap I promise. Just a "simple" C4 to AOD swap isn't exactly a bolt-in deal as it would seem.

If it were me I'd stick with the C4 (properly rebuilt) and leave the 3.00's in the car. With them you won't need an overdrive and it'll run just fine with the build you're planning. It's not going to fry the tires but that doesn't seem to be your goal anyways.

John

PS: Weigh the car and I'll bet you'll be surprised on what it actually is!


'65 Falcon Futura 347 stroker. Comp roller cam, 10.8:1, RPM intake, 750 DP, AFR185's, C4, 9-inch http://www.fordmuscleforums.com/gara...ehicle_id=1106
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post #3 of 18 (permalink) Old 10-06-2015, 11:07 AM
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Re: Developing a transmission plan for my car, input welcome...

Don't the 4R70W's from a V6 Mustang share the SBF bolt pattern? No need to hybrid the internals into an AOD case.

1970 XL, 351W originally 2V, now 4V
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post #4 of 18 (permalink) Old 10-06-2015, 11:59 AM
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Re: Developing a transmission plan for my car, input welcome...

65Falcon:
Look at these sites to look over options:
Lentech automatics build complete AOD=E's 4R;s or you can order parts , build up yourself.
My first swap- C-4 to AOD wasn;t a very complicated swap, but, you will get fed up with an AOD's "shift when I want to" workings, & sluggish shifting, a Lentech valve body was the answer, gives you control over 1,2,3 shifts at WOT, or any speed & a simple switch allows you to turn OD off/on, whenever.
If your C-4 is well built, look over at Gear Vendors site, keep your C-4, add a GV unit to the back of it, fairly simple swap too, GV is about the size of a coffee can, & now you have an auto OD, or flip it into Manual mode & you are shifting 6 X's up & down.
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post #5 of 18 (permalink) Old 10-06-2015, 12:49 PM
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Re: Developing a transmission plan for my car, input welcome...

Quote:
Originally Posted by 70XL View Post
Don't the 4R70W's from a V6 Mustang share the SBF bolt pattern? No need to hybrid the internals into an AOD case.

Yes, they do I think he is looking to eliminate the computer to control the shift points. Personally I like the computer and the ability to customize my shift points. Cheep...No. Options to change...... YES!

"Guess What? I gotta Fevr and the only prescription is? MORE COWBELL!!!" Christopher Walkin
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post #6 of 18 (permalink) Old 10-06-2015, 03:16 PM
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Re: Developing a transmission plan for my car, input welcome...

.
there is absolutely NOTHING wrong with a PROPERLY built AOD trans, especially for your incredibly mild app . . just use good parts like red alto/red eagle plates and bands, kolene steels, a high performance servo and a trans go shift kit or the one royster mentioned which i have never personally used . . whatever you do, i would not install a manual valve body.

its important to set them up properly with the proper clearances between the plates also which is slightly less than stock . . this reduces shift time and increases firmness.

adjust the cable properly using the proper linkage and you are good to go.

as far as the parts swap, i have no idea.

as far as the computer trannies go, i hate computers . . it may work 10 times better but i dont care.
.

Last edited by barnett468; 10-06-2015 at 03:22 PM.
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post #7 of 18 (permalink) Old 10-07-2015, 09:19 AM
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Re: Developing a transmission plan for my car, input welcome...

Take royster's suggestion and use a gear vendors add on OD. It's bullet proof and simple to add. The overall weight will be less than the AOD, no tunnel mods, no special tv cables. I have one behind the C6 in my race car hauler and it is the best thing I have done besides buying the truck in the first place. 700 rpm drop in OD , 3,000 to 2,300 @ 70 mph.
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post #8 of 18 (permalink) Old 10-07-2015, 10:53 AM
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Re: Developing a transmission plan for my car, input welcome...

Quote:
Originally Posted by jrdufresne View Post
Yes, they do I think he is looking to eliminate the computer to control the shift points. Personally I like the computer and the ability to customize my shift points. Cheep...No. Options to change...... YES!
I thought those stand-alone trans controllers, Bauman/US Shift, were fairly reasonable in price. Have they gotten more expensive? Wasn't PSIG working on a lower cost controller? Shorter rear gearing and more forward gears would probably make all of us happier old car drivers.

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post #9 of 18 (permalink) Old 10-11-2015, 06:22 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Developing a transmission plan for my car, input welcome...

Quote:
Originally Posted by 65FalconLover View Post
If it were me I'd stick with the C4 (properly rebuilt) and leave the 3.00's in the car.

I'm wanting lower highway rpm's and better fuel efficiency you get from an overdrive transmission with a lockup torque converter.

In my research I found out the 4R70W was the final incarnation of the AOD design. The AOD and AOD/E had thinner, weaker gear sets made from softer alloys and tended to fail at lower mileage than a C4. The 4R70W differed from the AOD and AOD/E because it was set up for the 4.6 which did not produce torque like the 302's so they gave it a shorter 1st and second gears for performance off the line and strengthened everything else to improve durability. The improved 4R70W gear train is supposed to bolt into an AOD case. I have not talked to my transmission builder yet. I am trying to put together a sound plan before I show up with a pile of parts and ask "How much is this gonna cost...?".
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post #10 of 18 (permalink) Old 10-11-2015, 06:29 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Developing a transmission plan for my car, input welcome...

Quote:
Originally Posted by jrdufresne View Post
Yes, they do I think he is looking to eliminate the computer to control the shift points. Personally I like the computer and the ability to customize my shift points. Cheep...No. Options to change...... YES!
I like computers doing all kinds of stuff in my modern vehicles.
That is how my wife's 300M 3.5L makes 255HP at the brakes and gets 31 mpg with the cruise set at 65 with the A/C on.

But I want to build something simple, that's why I'm going to use a DUI distributor when I build my 302. Just 1 12V wire off the key switch and 1 vacuum hose. That's it.
I loved it in our Falcon SIX.
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post #11 of 18 (permalink) Old 10-11-2015, 06:39 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Developing a transmission plan for my car, input welcome...

Quote:
Originally Posted by barnett468 View Post
.
there is absolutely NOTHING wrong with a PROPERLY built AOD trans, especially for your incredibly mild app . . whatever you do, i would not install a manual valve body..
Junkyard trans from 87-91 Mustang 5.0 or F-150 with matched T/C and flex plate. Servo upgrade and shift kit and new filter installed by shop I trust. Then I bring the car to them to adjust TV cable when I get it running? (it has to be in the car to adjust, correct?)
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post #12 of 18 (permalink) Old 10-11-2015, 06:48 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Developing a transmission plan for my car, input welcome...

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Originally Posted by GT350HR View Post
Take royster's suggestion and use a gear vendors add on OD.
I have wanted a Gearvendors drive unit ever since I heard of them.
They are $2800....way out of my budget.

I'm thinking junkyard upgrades....or stuff you can buy or trade for on Craigslist used, cheap...like this:
AOD transmission
this guy wants to trade an AOD for a C4. I have 2 C4's and want an AOD...I sent an email...I wish he would check his email!!!

In my S10 I had Monte Carlo SS steering box(2.2 turns), Jeep steering shaft (eliminate rag joint), Camaro rims, Pontiac G6 seats. Our 65 Falcon has 08 PT Cruiser seats...cheap, fun , junkyard upgrades.
I was thinking I could get a good used 4R70W and an AOD and take them both to my transmission builder for the FRANKENTRANS build and hope to come out under $1000

Last edited by 65FalconSix; 10-11-2015 at 06:55 PM. Reason: forgot part
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post #13 of 18 (permalink) Old 10-11-2015, 06:58 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Developing a transmission plan for my car, input welcome...

Quote:
Originally Posted by barnett468 View Post
.
whatever you do, i would not install a manual valve body.
Why?
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post #14 of 18 (permalink) Old 10-12-2015, 11:31 AM
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Re: Developing a transmission plan for my car, input welcome...

Why wouldn't you just find a last model, AOD, ve it built with a valve body, main shaft upgrade, if your not into electronics, no reason to buy a used 4R too, is there?
My built AOD, well, I was told it was built, all they did was add a Lentech valve body, but, it lived behind a hot little 302 & as far as I know still does.
Without the valve body upgrade it was a pain to drive/shift.
I tell you, if you can find a used GV unit, behind a well built C-4 they are just a riot to drive/shift. And although I;ve been told they can break with any HP put to them, I;ve been manhandling mine attached to a 450hp small block with no issues at all.

Last edited by royster; 10-12-2015 at 11:34 AM.
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post #15 of 18 (permalink) Old 10-14-2015, 05:51 PM
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Re: Developing a transmission plan for my car, input welcome...

Quote:
Originally Posted by 65FalconSix View Post
Why?
because then it will no longer be an automatic trans

Last edited by barnett468; 10-14-2015 at 06:00 PM.
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