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Old 06-29-2004, 11:06 PM   #1 (permalink)
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AOD TO C4 SWAP OUT HELP

Hi can anyone help me here first off i have a c4 pro street from GER what a mistake there customer service Sucks... I got the tranny in and bolted up and the flywheel bolted up first i filled the conveter with 1 qt of tranny fluid and set it in place and then rased the tranny and bolted the bellhousing down and then the converter added a b and m hammer shifter and c4 kit and got a lokar efi to c4 kock down cable and hooked the vac line for the tranny to the vac tree on the fire wall ?? is this right where it hooks up?? filled the tranny with 6 qts of fluid and now its reading full when hot now the car is getting VIBRATION at speeds over 65 and it feels like the tranny or converter is not locked in the tranny right it feels like its slipping why is this??? i took my time and did this took me 2 and a 1/2 weeks to do the swap and did alottttttt of reading first why is this tranny making the car vibrate and feel like its slipping
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Old 06-30-2004, 01:10 AM   #2 (permalink)
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AOD TO C4 SWAP OUT HELP

edited..............


Did you get the correct oz imbalance flexplate? 50oz?

Sorry about the offest thing...yes the aod and c4 have the same offest.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: fogged408w on 7/1/04 12:37pm ]</font>
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Old 06-30-2004, 08:17 AM   #3 (permalink)
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AOD TO C4 SWAP OUT HELP

hi no i did not switch the flexplate or flywheel the transmission i bought from GER is a direct bolt on they told me and i could use everything from the AOD tranny is this a lie??? thanks Greg

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Old 06-30-2004, 01:25 PM   #4 (permalink)
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AOD TO C4 SWAP OUT HELP

does the flexplate ?flywheel matter both c4 and aod use the 157 tooth 50 oz Ger told me it will work on both transmissions?

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Old 06-30-2004, 01:25 PM   #5 (permalink)
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AOD TO C4 SWAP OUT HELP

i found a c4 157 tooth flywheel 50oz on ebay for a good price should i buy it or should i get it from PA transmissions



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Old 06-30-2004, 05:30 PM   #6 (permalink)
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AOD TO C4 SWAP OUT HELP

yesAre you sure you need a 50oz??? what year is your engine??

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Old 06-30-2004, 06:02 PM   #7 (permalink)
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AOD TO C4 SWAP OUT HELP

i guess i do i dont no the cars a 1993 mustang gt 302 5.0
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Old 07-01-2004, 12:38 AM   #8 (permalink)
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HOLD ON A SECOND!!!!!!!!!

AOD's use a 164 tooth flexplate, so if thats engaging with your starter now....you must have a large bell housing. and yes you will need a 50oz flexplate for your 5.0 motor.


The 157t flexplates are only for the small bell housings and the only housing that can take either size is the aftermarket SFI approved bell.

Sounds like you need a c4/aod 164t 50oz flexplate if thats not what you have already.

Could your vibration be the driveshaft?

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Old 07-01-2004, 01:13 AM   #9 (permalink)
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AOD TO C4 SWAP OUT HELP

the drive shaft has all new u joints so i dont think its the drive shaft and on a 1993 302 5.0 the flywheel is a 157 50oz for the aod is what ford told me here in florida.and i have great pick up off the line and it goes right up to 65 then the tranny feels like its slipping and thats when i get the vibs in the car but it cant be slipping it has to be the flywheel if it was slipping i would have blown it by now i drove it 15 miles., how do i no what one i have count all the dang teeth on it or is there a number on it somewhere there is this on the weight on my flywheel now (( EOSP-AA )) how do i know what bellhousing i have is there a way to find out all i no is i told GER i needed a c4 pro street that would bolt up to my 1993 mustang 302 5.0 with 500hp and now i got more head aches then if i had the aod rebuilt for racing for the 2,000.00

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Old 07-01-2004, 11:40 AM   #10 (permalink)
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AOD TO C4 SWAP OUT HELP

i went to fords racing web site and if you look under flywheels they even say 81 and up is a 157 50 oz flywheel
there link http://www.fordracingparts.com/parts...tKeyField=2996

so what one is it the 157 or 164 tooth and 50 oz????

but then if you go to the same site at this link its telling me the 81 to 01 ford 302 5.0 motor thats the same one heres that link http://www.fordracingparts.com/parts...tKeyField=6135

now im very lost ok so if i took a aod out of the car and put a c4 in it and it bolts up and the starter starts the car its the right flywheel then no????if both the aod and the c4 use the same flywheel

maybe i put the converter in wrong the HAYNES book i have told me to mark the converter to reinstall it but how do you do this if the tranny and converter are new and not the same ones maybe i got the converter in out of balance ????does this sound right maybe i dont no

then heres this web site and all 5.0 flywheels are 157 tooth 50oz http://www.ddperformance.com/ford_flywheels.htm

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Masscatxfl on 7/2/04 1:06am ]</font>
see heres one more web site and they say the flaxplate/flywheel on my car now will work on both the aod and the c4 http://www.performancefordparts.com/...ber=M-6375-A50 god why do tey make things so hard for something so easy to install lol

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Old 07-01-2004, 05:25 PM   #11 (permalink)
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AOD TO C4 SWAP OUT HELP

Flexplate Diameter and Balance
------------------------------
One of the more important parts of the swap is to choose the proper
flexplate for your application. The integral bellhousing AOD requires a flexplate
with 164 teeth (approximately 14 1/4" diameter with an 11 7/16" torque converter
bolt pattern) for proper starter placement and converter compatibility. The
C4, however, uses a detachable bellhousing that is matched to one of three
different flexplate sizes (148, 157, and 164 teeth). The 148 teeth
flexplates are comparatively rare, having been used in cars like the V8 Mustang II.
The 157 teeth flexplates were generally used in 289/302 small and mid-sized
cars, while the 164 teeth flexplates were used in 289/302 full-size cars and
351W/351C applications. The C4 164 teeth flexplates and the AOD 164 teeth
flexplates will physically interchange, but there are two balance weights
(pre-'81 302's use a 28.2 oz-in balance weight, '81-up 5.0 HO's are 50
oz-in), to be concerned with. I haven't had a chance to verify but I think all
351W's and 351C's used 28.2 oz-in balance factors. Also, the catalog I looked at
suggested that 1981 and up non-HO 302's are still 28.2 oz-in (at least to
1990). Anyone know for sure? In my case, the flexplate in the 1971 Mustang
came with 157 teeth and a 28.2 oz-in balance factor, so it required
replacing. Since they both have 164 teeth and 28.2 oz-in balance factors, I was under
the impression that flexplates from either a 351W w/AOD or early 289/302 w/C4
from a full-size car would work. Looking through the books at the parts store
showed that these were not common part numbers, and listed the 351W part as
working with an AOT, not AOD, transmission. Not knowing if the AOT
indicated a subtle variation that I was unaware of, I decided to order the early
289/302/C4/full-size part (OEM D1AZ-6375-A, Saginaw XF15). This turned out
to be a mistake. When we put the converter and transmission up to the engine
for a fit check, the modeling clay we had put in the crank pilot showed the
converter snout was barely making contact. Apparently there is a difference
in flexplate depth. It all would have bolted together and the starter may
have even managed to reach the flexplate teeth, but there would have been no
support for the converter and the starter would have eventually chewed up
the flexplate. Procuring a 351W/AOD flexplate over the holidays turned out to
be an ordeal (dealers wanted 14 days), but it was required for proper converter
snout to crank pilot placement, while retaining the proper diameter and
balance. We finally found a transmission supply house that had the right
piece. We put the 351W/AOD next to the early 289/302/C4/164 teeth part and
there was a difference in height. Since then I have checked some
aftermarket catalogs and they show the same part number for both applications, so buyer
beware. The part we finally obtained was from Sealed Power and corresponded
to OEM E0AZ-6375-A (164 teeth flexplate, 28.2 oz-in balance factor, 351W
with AOD applications). If you're swapping an AOD onto an '81 or later 5.0,
you'll need the AOD flexplate (164 teeth, 50.0 oz-in balance factor, for 5.0
with AOD applications). I think the OEM part number for the late 5.0/AOD
is E2AZ-6375-A, but I didn't verify this. In a pinch, you could swap (weld)
balance weights between flexplates to get the proper balance factor. If you
choose to do this, remember that the balance factor is a moment of inertia
(distance time mass) so keep the product of the distance from the weight to
the center of the flexplate and the balance weight (plus any additional weld
weight) equal to a constant (either 28.2 or 50.0 oz-in).

http://www.mustangsandmore.com/ubb/D...C4AODswap.html



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Old 07-01-2004, 10:32 PM   #12 (permalink)
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AOD TO C4 SWAP OUT HELP

well thanks for your help so far i looked over the hole thing you typed at the end of it it tells me the 81 and up non 5.0 HO is the 28.8 oz flexplate so now i think the aod flaxplate is 28.8 oz's to so i think the flaxplate is the wrong one if i need a 50oz so maybe thats what is doing the vibrations but how am i to no the thickness of the flexplate i need? and do i have to change the crankshaft damper?? to match the 50 oz c4 flexplate i assume the aod damper is a 28.8 oz to ??? i dont feel like pulling this tranny 5 times before its right but i will if i have to or just go back to the dang aod and sell the c4 and everything i just bought with it this all is starting to confuse me


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Old 07-01-2004, 10:59 PM   #13 (permalink)
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AOD TO C4 SWAP OUT HELP

but then i find this now and it confused me again this is telling me the flexplates 50oz not 28.8 ??

Articles

Balancing Act



Another problem that crops up when swapping later-model small-block Fords into earlier-model cars is flywheel or flexplate balance. Many Ford enthusiasts don’t know that Ford changed the external balance weights of the Windsor small-block in 1980 with the introduction of the short-lived 255ci V8. The external balance changed from 28.2 ounces to 50 ounces with the ’80 engines.

Other than this change, the flywheel/flexplates are the same, which means that they will interchange. While this change may not sound significant, if you bolt a pre-’80 flywheel or flexplate to an ’80-or-later small-block (or vice versa), the engine will vibrate horribly from the moment you fire it up, causing severe engine damage if driven for even a short period of time. In some instances, the later-model flywheel or flexplate may not fit inside the earlier bellhousings, since Ford offered both 157-tooth and 164-tooth flexplates.





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This flywheel and harmonic dampener are for the heavier 50-ounce external-balance, late-model 5.0L engine. Notice the size of the imbalance weight located on the flywheel and harmonic dampener. The lighter 28.2-ounce flywheel or dampener will have roughly half the size imbalance weights, making it easy to spot.







<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Masscatxfl on 7/2/04 11:00am ]</font>
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Old 07-02-2004, 01:05 AM   #14 (permalink)
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AOD TO C4 SWAP OUT HELP

Quote:
On 2004-07-01 11:40, Masscatxfl wrote:

then heres this web site and all 5.0 flywheels are 157 tooth 50oz http://www.ddperformance.com/ford_flywheels.htm
Fist off, you have a flexplate, not a flywheel!!!!!!!!

An aod uses a 164t flexplate.

All 5.0 H.O. mustangs are 50 oz balance.

You should be using a 164t 50oz flexplate and a 50oz damper if you have an 87-93 mustang H.O. motor.

Are your not 100 percent sure your using a factory 164t aod 50oz flexplate with a 1/2" offset, check it out. If you do have the correct flexplate, then take your driveshaft and get it balanced for $40, then get your tires balanced, then call GER and tell them their trans is slipping.
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Old 07-02-2004, 01:07 AM   #15 (permalink)
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AOD TO C4 SWAP OUT HELP

Also, Make sure you dont get the 164t C6 flexplate confussed with the 164t C4/AOD flexplate.

The c6 has a 3/4" offset while the C4/AOD have a 1/2" offset.
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