FMX problem. - Ford Muscle Forums : Ford Muscle Cars Tech Forum

Big Al1753 · 01-15-2013, 12:37 PM

I just purchased a 69 Mustang coupe with a 351W that has been completely redone. Edelbrock all the way. (I went to buy an engine stand for $25. and the car was in the garage. Long story, but I ended up buying it.) The seller knew very little about the car since it belonged to a deceased relative.
He told me that the car ran great, but after the new motor was installed, it wouldn't move forward or reverse. Nothing else done, just the motor install. The trans was supposedly good and working OK until that point.
I'm pretty sure it's an FMX. I did the old magnet test and it stuck to the trans body but nothing else.
The seller told me that it doesn't make any kind of movement, either in forward or reverse. He had drained the fluid so it's dry now, but before I fill it I'm hoping to cure the problem.
If the story I'm getting is even close to the actual truth, what could possibly cause the trans to completely stop working?

Mroldfart2U · 01-15-2013, 02:34 PM

check to make sure they put in the tq convertor bolts first. if it was moving etc before they did engine work.... maybe have forced it together also causing pump damage, but it needs probably at least 5 qts of fluid if it had been drained...

PSIG · 01-15-2013, 02:40 PM

Hey Al - assuming it really was working well and fluid level was right, etc., then improper engine installation may have damaged the inner pump gear at the front of the trans. A pressure test would verify. If you are not equipped with the time, gauge* or interest in testing pressure, I'd check around at the local car clubs for references to a good tranny shop or trustworthy mechanic. You're not looking to do work yet - just testing - and any shop that's familiar can do that in short order for minimal or no money. Repair of the pump is not a huge deal, but diagnosis is far preferred to just pulling it out to look. That's either messy or expensive.

*The gauge is a basic 200 to 300 psi gauge with a hose and fitting. You should be able to rig your own setup at the hardware store for under $30.

David

Stuart1 · 01-15-2013, 03:13 PM

The simplest method is to fill it with fluid, remove a cooler line at the rad and fire it up.

If there is good flow chances are the pump is ok.

puttster · 01-15-2013, 11:25 PM

Have I got this right? You went to buy a $125 engine stand and ended up with a 69 Mustang 351W?

Where is your self-control, Al?

Mroldfart2U · 01-16-2013, 08:13 AM

LOL putts.... At ANY rate the OP is going to have to fill trans before he can try any diag on it... IF the story IS true its something simple, but still maybe a trans drop unfortunately.

Big Al1753 · 01-16-2013, 09:14 AM

Self control. What's that?
Actually it was a $25. stand for a 390 that wound up costing me a few thousand.
I couldn't say no. It has a perfect interior and zero rust. He told me his cousin had almost $10,000. in the motor. Might be a stretch and a little BS, but the motors new and completely Edelbrock, including aluminum heads, manifold, water pump, etc. etc.
He said that because of the trans problem the new motor has zero miles. Only run time. And it sounds good. Running with a set of headers and no exhaust system it rattles windows.
As I said, I couldn't say no.
Back to the trans problem. I appreciate all of the input but I'm not sure which way to go. I'm not looking forward to it, but I think I might pull the trans and take it to a shop that might know something about an FMX.
Down to Harbor Freight to buy a trans jack.
I guess it's time again to learn something new. The last trans I pulled was a 4 speed in 1976.
One question. Can the FMX be pulled out without removing the torque converter? I'm not clear on that.
I'm still open to any other ideas.
Al,

Mroldfart2U · 01-16-2013, 09:27 AM

Doubtful that there is enough room, besides the tq is actually part of the equation. its only 4 bolts to un bolt it from the flexplate. As I stated earlier it could be they didnt bolt the tq converter to the flex to start with... Did you check?

Big Al1753 · 01-16-2013, 02:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mroldfart2U

Doubtful that there is enough room, besides the tq is actually part of the equation. its only 4 bolts to un bolt it from the flexplate. As I stated earlier it could be they didnt bolt the tq converter to the flex to start with... Did you check?

Not yet. I've only had it for a week and thought it would be best to get input from other members (like yourself) who know a whole bunch more than I do. It's been a long time since I've done any kind of wrenching so I'll have a lot of questions.
I was wondering about the torque converter. That was one of my first thoughts, but not knowing anything about an FMX etc. it only became wishful thinking on my part. Did it get fluid, is it any good, etc. I don't know if the guy that owned the car, or the shop that did the motor rebuild, installed the new motor. That might have a bearing on the quality of the job.
If the torque converter wasn't bolted up to the flexplate, would there be enough clearance for the motor to turn and run without rubbing on the TC and make a bunch of noise?
I'll get under the car by this weekend and do some investigating.
Thanks,
Al

DanH · 01-19-2013, 06:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big Al1753

I just purchased a 69 Mustang coupe with a 351W that has been completely redone. Edelbrock all the way. (I went to buy an engine stand for $25. and the car was in the garage. Long story, but I ended up buying it.) The seller knew very little about the car since it belonged to a deceased relative.
He told me that the car ran great, but after the new motor was installed, it wouldn't move forward or reverse. Nothing else done, just the motor install. The trans was supposedly good and working OK until that point.
I'm pretty sure it's an FMX. I did the old magnet test and it stuck to the trans body but nothing else.
The seller told me that it doesn't make any kind of movement, either in forward or reverse. He had drained the fluid so it's dry now, but before I fill it I'm hoping to cure the problem.
If the story I'm getting is even close to the actual truth, what could possibly cause the trans to completely stop working?

DRAINED THE FLUID SO ITS DRY NOW< BUT BEFORE I FILL IT I"M HOPING TO CURE the problem >

sOUNDS LIKE THE SAME PROBLEM WHEN DRAINED ENGINE OIL , THEn START THE ENGINE AND IT HAS NO OIL PRESSURE .
anyone think if the drain plug is replaced and 5qt's oil poured into the motor will fix the problem ?

FEandGoingBroke · 01-19-2013, 07:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big Al1753

Self control. What's that?
Actually it was a $25. stand for a 390 that wound up costing me a few thousand.
Back to the trans problem. I appreciate all of the input but I'm not sure which way to go. I'm not looking forward to it, but I think I might pull the trans and take it to a shop that might know something about an FMX.

DO NOT DO THAT, unless you KNOW they've repaired them before...
Plus, it would be a waste to NOT try and put in 6 or 9 quarts of oil and see if it moves. BUT BEFORE doing that drop the pan and make sure the shift linkage is moving inside the tranny....

Quote:

Down to Harbor Freight to buy a trans jack.
I guess it's time again to learn something new. The last trans I pulled was a 4 speed in 1976.
One question. Can the FMX be pulled out without removing the torque converter? I'm not clear on that.
I'm still open to any other ideas.
Al,

Converter needs to come with the tranny unless they are on the ground or a bench outside the car.

Danh, I've started many FMX and Cruise O Matics without fluid and then put the fluid IN as they were running with no ill effects on the tranny. What are you implying here about running an engine with an empty transmission?

Big Al1753 · 01-19-2013, 11:32 AM

Dan H:
I might not have been clear on the trans draining.
After the new motor was installed, trans filled, etc. the original owner found that the car didn't move, even though the trans was working OK before the new motor was installed. The poor guy died a few days later before he could correct the problem. The car wound up with his cousin, who I bought it from.
He's the one that told me that when the trans was put into forward or reverse absolutely nothing happened. No action, or reaction, of any kind. He drained the fluid to investigate and that's when I bought the car.
So it was tested with fluid, but now it's dry.

FE & Going Broke:
Thanks for your feedback.
I agree about who to take it to. I'm in the San Francisco Bay area so I'm hoping there's a shop that has FMX experience.
I planned on droping the pan to take a look (don't know what I'll be looking for) but will check out the linkage movement. I'm really hoping it's something that simple.

Thanks,
Al

DanH · 01-19-2013, 12:24 PM

Al , won't hurt to drop the pan and look .

you will have to complete the fill of the trans , to find an in car problem

DanH · 01-19-2013, 12:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FEandGoingBroke

DO NOT DO THAT, unless you KNOW they've repaired them before...
Plus, it would be a waste to NOT try and put in 6 or 9 quarts of oil and see if it moves. BUT BEFORE doing that drop the pan and make sure the shift linkage is moving inside the tranny....
Converter needs to come with the tranny unless they are on the ground or a bench outside the car.

Danh, I've started many FMX and Cruise O Matics without fluid and then put the fluid IN as they were running with no ill effects on the tranny. What are you implying here about running an engine with an empty transmission?

implying . there is no pressure without oil or ATF . simple

FEandGoingBroke · 01-19-2013, 12:30 PM

Yep, I agree again, drop pan, inspect linkage internally, look for loose valve body bolts etc... If nothing bad is found fill it with the correct type trans fluid, Type F or A or FA or DEX II, whatever the 69 calls for, start, top off, and put in gear and see what happens...

Maybe they forgot to put in the driveline