Murff Finally Went to the Track - Ford Muscle Forums : Ford Muscle Cars Tech Forum

Murff · 09-13-2008, 11:24 AM

The Totally Awesome Missus Murff and I got the Falcon to the track this past Friday for the first (and likely last) time this year. It was a picture perfect day weather wise, although I don’t have a station so I can’t give the particulars.

The plan was to make a fairly lazy 1st pass, launch soft and run it out the back, which is exactly what I did. I also shut off a little past the 1000’ mark. This was the first time I’ve ever run at Bremerton and it’s just a little disconcerting after you roll off the edge of the earth and start heading downhill to the finish, and see that fence with the narrow opening in it waiting just ahead. Those of you that have run there know what I’m talking about. The car got heat in the staging lanes and I turned on the water pump at 150 degrees. Temp was at 180 when I crossed the stripe, 160 on the return road. Pass # 1 was a 12.77 @ 101 with a 1.90 60’.

Pass # 2 found me paired up with a friend’s Maverick. The Mav used to be an 11.90 289 but this year he went to a 347 with AFR 185’s. He has run a best of 10.73 with this package but is usually in the 10.90 range. I do a so-so burnout, lousy light, spun off the line. He was out on me by a good 3 car lengths but was not pulling away. It felt like I might even be able to run him down, until…My windshield was suddenly very wet. Crap, water or alky? A quick glance at the temp gauge told me it was water and I knew then I had failed to turn on the water pump. Once again shut down at about 1000’. Pass #2 was 11.51 @ 98 with a 1.62 60’. The Maverick ran 10.97 @ 123 with a 1.54 60’.

Back to the pits, temp is at 230. My Maverick buddy brought me some water and we got the engine cooled down. I found out that on that last pass the car spewed a puddle right at the hit, which explained the spinning tires. Looking at the video I see that the tree actually went red before the green, signaling me to abort but I missed it. Rookies. I found the hose clamp that was the culprit and once the temp was down I headed up for another pass.

Pass #3 had me back against the Maverick. Once again I failed to turn on the water pump until the tree was on it’s way down. I really need to get my starting line routine worked out, that’s for sure. Ran the car out this time and didn’t overheat, was right at 180. Pass #3 was 11.94 @ 112 with a 1.60 60’.

Pass # 4 was the last one I made, ran against a nice looking ’67 Nova. I had the water pump on for this one and temps stayed right where they were on pass #1. Pass #4 was 11.60 @ 112 with a 1.56 60’. Nova ran 12.44.

I did no tuning at all as I just wanted to see how the car handled, launched, etc. But I did learn something. On pass #2 and pass #4, when I made the turn to the return road I noticed my idle was high. I really made the connection on pass #4 when I pushed the fuel shut off back to the full on position and the idle dropped. I believe on those two passes that the shut off had closed a bit, leaning the engine out and I had better ET’s on both runs. So my conclusions on that are; a) Tune is too rich and/or, b) Need a high speed bypass, c) Need a better cable or control for the fuel shut off.

I didn’t change tire pressure, never pulled a plug (do that today), never tweaked timing. I don’t think we’ll try to run again this year, so I will start laying my plans for spring tune up runs. I have come to the conclusion too that this build will not lead to 10 second ET’s, but I believe there are 11.30 to 11 teens available and that is what I will be shooting for.

On the fuel consumption side of things, each lap consumed close to four gallons of alky, also leading me to believe it’s on the rich side.

The bottom line, Nancy and I had a lot of fun out there, we got some good information on the car, and we didn’t break anything. Verification of the non-breakage will come over the next couple weeks but the car still sounded healthy getting it off the trailer and into the garage when we got home.

Oh, we also met FM Member BTLS66SCOUPE. He doesn't post much here but maybe he'll start. Nice little '66 Mustang Coupe with a 289 running 13's all night and just murdering the tree. Really nice guy to boot.

Videos will be up later after I edit them a bit.

Just Jim · 09-13-2008, 01:54 PM

Good goin' getting the garage queen out to the track. Sounds like a fun time.

Maybe you should wire up the fuel and water pumps to be running anytime the ignition is on? Being an old gray beard myself to prevent forgetting to turn on something all my cars have the fuel pump and fan/water pump wired to be on with the ignition. Just a though.

Did I read right,it took 4 gallons per lap? Jeeze 4 gallons last about 10 or more 1/8 mile and return runs for me.

FALCONAROUND · 09-13-2008, 01:57 PM

Fantastic man!

Can't wait for the vid's!

n2omike · 09-13-2008, 02:20 PM

I'm guessing that 2nd pass at 98mph is supposed to be a 12.51???

FOUR gallons of fuel per lap????? DANG!!!!

Alky is kind of weird. From my limited dirt track experience with a team that was running alky... Going lean is BAD. It torches head gaskets, pistons, etc.

On the flip side, alky can be run pretty far on the rich side without losing much power. Much further than with gasoline. Therefore, especially with the difficulty with reading alky plugs, people tend to play it safe and run on the rich side of the spectrum.

However, running rich will wash the oil off the cylinder walls pretty bad, and a lot of that alky will find its way into the engine's crankcase, diluting the crap out of the oil.

If I were you, I'd be trying to 'friend' somebody with one of those Innovate Wide Band Oxygen meters. Get it hooked up, and make some passes to see exactly where you are. FOUR gallons is excessive. You NEED to get a handle on the tune before something gets ruined.

Good Luck!

Murff · 09-13-2008, 03:17 PM

Well Ok, so my math skills ain't so great (who knew?). I am being pretty lazy today, but I just went and checked the amount of fuel we actually consumed, and it was just a bit over ten gallons. On and off the trailer, driving to and from each pass, and some running in the lanes. Guess it was more like two-ish gallons per lap which would make a lot more sense.

Pass number two was indeed 11.51 at 98 mph, 7.16 at 96 mph to the 1/8th. Told you I shut off early.

Oil is not bad milky at all, wouldn't hesitate running it again today if I was still racing. Did not install fresh plugs before we ran so no real valuable info there. Like I said, it wasn't a tuning trip.

I just had an offer from my friend with the '23 Altered to use his EGT sensors this spring so when we do go out to tune I will be able to get more valid info. The tune on the car yesterday was the 'safe' out of the box tune from FIE, the ones that flowed my system. I will likely leave this alone until I can get a handle on everything else, temps, fuel shutoff, etc. Then I can start on the tune, with assistance from a friend with more experience than I.

Jim, I guess there's no point to the grudge race anymore, other than for fun. Your stuff is faster than mine, last night showed that. You win, I lose. Some days are like that.

n2omike · 09-13-2008, 03:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Murff

Pass number two was indeed 11.51 at 98 mph, 7.16 at 96 mph to the 1/8th. Told you I shut off early.

pass #1
12.77 @ 101 1.90 60ft

pass #2
11.51 @ 98 1.62 60ft

pass #3
11.94 @ 112 1.60 60ft

pass #4
11.60 @ 112 1.56 60ft

You can see why pass #2 seemed like an oddball to me. It's your quickest run, but slowest mph. Pass #4 is where you finally did everything 'right', had your best 60ft, highest mph, and still didn't run as well as when you shut off early enough to only run 98mph.

Anyway, going on the 7.16 @ 96mph 1/8 mile time for that 2nd run, with no other changes, it should have gone around an 11.17 @ 121 on that pass. Hopefully, nothing is hurt that may have slowed the car down on those last runs.

To better evaluate things... What were the 1/8 mile times for those last two runs?

SLCK64 · 09-13-2008, 04:04 PM

I think high 10.999999s or slightly better would be achievable with this engine. Once you get the engine tuned, dink around with the suspension(running slicks?), and really start putting ur foot in her, she will Skoot to Boot!!! I mean you ran 11.5 coasting!!!!

All Hail The Murff!

Murff · 09-13-2008, 04:24 PM

Here's the incrementals on passes 2, 3 & 4. Pass #1 was a throwaway from the get go.

Pass 2:
60' 1.626
330 4.625
1/8 7.166 (96.06)
1000 9.397
1/4 11.518 (98.60)

Pass 3:
60' 1.607
330 4.800
1/8 7.516 (89.99)
1000 9.904
1/4 11.94 (110.28)

Pass 4:
60' 4.564
330 4.675
1/8 7.306 (92.90)
1000 9.616
1/4 11.602 (112.68)

n2omike · 09-13-2008, 04:36 PM

Wow, Murff...

Those three passes are so scattered, it's hard to read much out of them. You're going to have to get some practice behind the wheel, and get some consistency going on. Until you do, tuning from your data is going to be impossible.

There is so much inconsistency with your passes, that it will be impossible to tell whether the tuning... or your inconsistency alters the car's performance each time you 'turn the screws'.

Hey, it's an excuse to go flog it some more, right?

Either that, or allow a local 'resident expert' to make some passes so you can get some valid data.

Good Luck!

Murff · 09-13-2008, 05:00 PM

Well yeah, no consistancy. Part of that was possibly mechanical (fuel shut off & temp), most of it was driver (no routine). And this wasn't a tuning outing. I just needed to get it on the track once before winter so I didn't spend the next six months guesstimating.

I appreciate the feedback tho', don't get me wrong. I was a street racer in the '70's but don't have much seat time at the strip. I'm an old rookie.

But I'm having fun!

n2omike · 09-13-2008, 05:20 PM

Having fun is what it's all about!

Sorry if I sounded a bit 'direct'. I could have just patted you on the back, and said, "It'll run 10's Murff"....

But, I was trying to be -more- helpful than that, by trying to get and analyze all of your data.

It looks like you've got it working well enough to run very low 11's the way it sits. With a good job behind the wheel, the right weather, and some tuning it might dip into the 10's as long as it remains healthy.

Now we know we need to work on consistency in order to know what future tuning changes are doing for the ET's. Once you get there and start turning the screws in the right directions, you might be surprised at what it's capable of.

Get consistent, then experiment with shift points, timing, mixture, tire pressure, etc. But try to only change ONE variable at a time, so you know how EACH thing affects the run. When tuning the ENGINE, look at the MPH, as that is an indicator of how much power the engine is making. The ET shows how efficiently the power is being applied.

Get consistent, then vary the easy things first... like shift point. Then timing. Then move to air pressure. Then move to fuel mixture. This allows you to optimize EACH variable. Changing multiple things at once leaves you wondering WHICH change altered the ET.

Good Luck!

btls66coupe · 09-13-2008, 07:01 PM

Hi Murff
I had a great time at the track. Thank you to Murff and Nancy. Murff and Nancy helped out and let me put some of my tools and wheels in the back of their truck for safe keeping. It was my first time out and I saw a familiar race car out there. I thought that it was really cool to see Murffs ride run the 1/4. Once he gets that thing dialed in it's going to go like hell.

Spali32 · 09-13-2008, 10:18 PM

Yeah, I've heard that thing idle and it's nasty. I just got to get me hands on some slicks now and then I'll be at the track.

Murff · 09-13-2008, 10:19 PM

Just posted videos for those that need a chuckle.

n2omike · 09-15-2008, 05:00 PM

Murff...

A little discussion on mechanical alky injection about high speed lean-out... for when you REALLY start to get a handle on it.

Hi speed lean out on mechanical injection - Speed Talk

Good Luck!