427 vs. 428 vs. 429 - Ford Muscle Forums : Ford Muscle Cars Tech Forum
FordMuscleForums.com is the premier Ford Forum on the internet. Registered Users do not see the above ads.
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 10-18-2008, 08:27 PM   #1 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Saskatoon, SK
Posts: 35
427 vs. 428 vs. 429

Here's some super-noob questions:
What's the diff between the 427, 428, 429?
A friend has a 68 427 for sale.
I saw a 67 429 at a show.
I've heard the 428 is an FE, but what about the others?
Thanks.
__________________
My site: http://edanneberg.googlepages.com
e-tek racing is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 10-18-2008, 09:15 PM   #2 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 9
Re: 427 vs. 428 vs. 429

Quote:
Originally Posted by e-tek racing View Post
Here's some super-noob questions:
What's the diff between the 427, 428, 429?
A friend has a 68 427 for sale.
I saw a 67 429 at a show.
I've heard the 428 is an FE, but what about the others?
Thanks.
google ford fe and check out wickapedia's info. the 429 is not fe. research eng codes before paying for that 427.
badger is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 10-18-2008, 09:53 PM   #3 (permalink)
Subscriber
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: The Queen City of the West
Posts: 506
Re: 427 vs. 428 vs. 429

e-tek,
A '68 427 will be a heckuva motor, but it's not quite the same as the NASCAR racing motor that grew the legend. Starting in 1968, the 427 was switched from solid lifters to hydraulic, and the rated HP dropped from 425 to 390. You would still get the cross-bolted mains in the block, the stress relieved casting, etc., a very fine motor, but not the great racing motor. You should pay less for a '68 427 than for the earlier solid lifter versions. (Although, the '68 engine can be converted to solid lifters.)

The 428 was Ford's effort to get big cubic inches in a street motor. It was a lot cheaper to make than a 427, and was never intended for pure racing purposes. Basically, a 428 is just a stroked 390, and tuned for massive torque over horsepower. The Cobra Jet 428 motors in Mustangs used heads from the 427, plus other enhancements to really put some hair on their chest. But, from the factory it was never as powerful as the (solid lifter) 427.

The 429 was not produced until 1969.
__________________
The Black FoRd—1963 Galaxie 500 2-door sedan blk/blk. Factory-installed: R-code motor, 4 spd BW, 3.00:1, PW, AM/FM, rear spkr, 2 spd W&W, seat belts, WSW 7.10. Dealer: spotlight mirror. Orig owner: Sun tach+sender, fan clutch, rad. overflow. 2nd owner: radials, S/S exhaust.

Last edited by QueenCityRcode; 10-18-2008 at 11:20 PM.
QueenCityRcode is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 10-18-2008, 11:27 PM   #4 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Phoenix AZ
Posts: 278
Re: 427 vs. 428 vs. 429

Quote:
Originally Posted by e-tek racing View Post
Here's some super-noob questions:
What's the diff between the 427, 428, 429?
A friend has a 68 427 for sale.
I saw a 67 429 at a show.
I've heard the 428 is an FE, but what about the others?
Thanks.
Like others have said - do some digging on the FE boards for details but here are the short answers....

427 - Essentially the rarest of the FE family of motor - built principally for factory "race cars" (and certian marine applications I believe) larger bore - shorter stroke - premium factory parts. Cross bolted bottom ends, modified oiling on some production runs (you have probably heard about "side-oilers") etc. NOS parts are very rare today and prices reflect it - IMO true 427's are not worth building unless you are restoring a car that was built with one.

428 - Also FE family. More common than the 427 but much less common than the 390/360/352 variants. Makes cubic inches with more stroke and less bore. Still generally a "performance" motor but not built with the same level of parts/care as the 427. Generally cheaper than 427 stuff but still not (IMO) cost effective to build (per HP given what you can get out of a 390 with aftermarket parts) unless you are restoring a 428 car or building a clone and want reasonable accuracy. That said - you can pretty easily replicate a 428 using quality late service blocks and aftermarket rotating assemblies.

429 - NOT an FE - this is a 385 series motor (same family as te 460). For pure HP/dollar you can probably get the most out of this engine at most price points if all you consider is the longblock build - the 385 series stuff is quite a bit more common than the FEs (although the FE crowd seems to be growing today and the aftermarket is attempting to get in gear). That said - you lose the cool factor of having an FE and if you have to modify mounts etc it might not be worth doing.

Last word - how good a friend is the friend with the 427 for sale? I ask because if it is cheap then worry about 2 things...

1) Your friend is selling some other FE and representing it as a 427 when it is not (either intentionally or untentionally). There is LOTS of bad information n the net regarding casting numbers etc and he may THINK he has an fe when he does not - or he may know that he has something else and is trying to pass it off as a 427 - it is not terribly difficult to pass off a $20 352 core as a $10,000 427 if the buyer disn't look carefully.

2) Your friend has a true 427 and is selling it without understanding it's value...

In either case you want to be careful.. :-)
__________________
'65 Custom 2 Door Project Car

Remembering to live Coram Deo
65Custom is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 10-19-2008, 12:35 AM   #5 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 322
Re: 427 vs. 428 vs. 429

If it is a '68 427, it had to have come from a '68 Cougar GTE, the only car to have it this year. The early sales brochures claim that you could get it in Torinos, Mustangs, and Galaxies as well, but this never transpired.
BTW, did the '68 hydraulic 427s still have the side oiling gallery?
They are so rare I never have seen one.
Other than that, look for the 3 cross-bolts on each side just above the pan rail.That's the biggest tell-tale to ID one.

Last edited by roger628; 10-19-2008 at 12:40 AM. Reason: brain fart
roger628 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 10-19-2008, 01:48 AM   #6 (permalink)
Subscriber
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: The Queen City of the West
Posts: 506
Re: 427 vs. 428 vs. 429

Hey Roger and 65 Custom,
You make good points across the board. Roger, not only the Cougar but also Fairlanes, Comets and Cyclones, and the Mustang could be had with the hydraulic 427 in 1968. But, apparently, the engine was only available until halfway through the model year, before it was dropped and replaced with the 428 or 428 CJ/SCJ. Suffice to say, very very few cars were sold with a '68 427. To my understanding, it was not available in Galaxies that year; I could be wrong, for sure.

About the oil galleries, according to Steve Christ's book How to Rebuild Your Big Block Ford, the hydraulic lifter engine necessitated the use of addtional oil galleries, down the center of the block, beyond what is provided in the usual 427. So yes, they have the side gallery, but additional galleys beyond that. And, some of the hydryualic galleries must be plugged for soldi lifeter operaion.

Attached please find a picture of our 1963 427 motor. As 65 Custom points out, check the engine for cross bolted main bearings; you'll find the bolts just above the oil pan. ALL 427s had cross bolts.

Jay
__________________
The Black FoRd—1963 Galaxie 500 2-door sedan blk/blk. Factory-installed: R-code motor, 4 spd BW, 3.00:1, PW, AM/FM, rear spkr, 2 spd W&W, seat belts, WSW 7.10. Dealer: spotlight mirror. Orig owner: Sun tach+sender, fan clutch, rad. overflow. 2nd owner: radials, S/S exhaust.
QueenCityRcode is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 10-19-2008, 06:02 AM   #7 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Saskatoon, SK
Posts: 35
Re: 427 vs. 428 vs. 429

You guys are awesome - thanks for the complete, unabridged version of BB Ford differences!

I have a 67 Galaxie Conv. with the 390. This guy is honest, loves his car, & doesn't want to sell but has no room or money for it. I trust him, but he may be wrong about it, it may have been switched prior, or I may have misunderstood him (likey!). But I will check it closely. I'll ask for some pics to to post here. He's owned it for about 12 years. The only thing is, being a 68, I'm not partial to the hidden headlights....but I could get over that!!
__________________
My site: http://edanneberg.googlepages.com
e-tek racing is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 10-19-2008, 06:47 AM   #8 (permalink)
Subscriber
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Omaha, NE
Posts: 3,010
Re: 427 vs. 428 vs. 429

If it has cross bolts, and is a good block, grab it, then post pics of the motor mount bolt area, we'll tell you what you have.

If it doesnt have cross bolts, check the crankshaft casting number for 1U, 1B, 1UA, then its a 428 or 410, and a good crank alone is worth about 400 for reference

If it doesnt have cross bolts or a 1U,A,B crank, write down the crank number and the head casting number between the spark plugs and get back to us before you pay anything

As far as 68 427s, the literature did say they were out there, but its a wives tale, Kevin Marti disproveed the 68 427 a few times. Aside from DEALER installs, none made it down the assembly line other than the Cougars.

We argued this one to death on the FE forum for 12 yrs now, and its pretty apparent that the plans changed after the dealer brochures were printed, there werent any out there factory installed (again, other than the Cougar of course). As much as we'd all love to find the white whale hyd cam 427 Mustang, Fairlane or other, Ford didnt do it
__________________

70 Sportsroof, 427 FE/489 cid, TKO-600, 31 spline 4.10, A/C. modified Mass-flo EFI/reprogrammed A9L/CnC ported Victor.
My427stang is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 10-19-2008, 07:49 AM   #9 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Town called Malice, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 3,572
Re: 427 vs. 428 vs. 429

Quote:
Originally Posted by QueenCityRcode View Post
e-tek,

The 429 was not produced until 1969.
The 429/460 first came out in 1968.
__________________

Stu

“I really admire qualities in others that I don’t possess. Subtlety being one…”
CaptVirgilHilts is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 10-19-2008, 07:49 AM   #10 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 2,187
Re: 427 vs. 428 vs. 429

Quote:
Originally Posted by QueenCityRcode View Post
e-tek,

The 429 was not produced until 1969.

Per old magazine articles, the 429 was already available in Thunderbirds since 1966 or 1967. You must be thinking of little cars. As per same articles it was intended to replace the 427, but that and too sleek of a new body for 1968 would have gave them too much advantage in high oval racing. So had to stick with the 427 for one more year.

Wm.
__________________
Old Ford owner
coosbaylumber is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 10-19-2008, 09:03 AM   #11 (permalink)
Tech Contributor
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Ontario,Canada
Posts: 6,391
Garage
Re: 427 vs. 428 vs. 429

Quote:
Originally Posted by coosbaylumber View Post
Per old magazine articles, the 429 was already available in Thunderbirds since 1966 or 1967.
Wm.
1968 was the first year for the 429..

The FE motors are very difficult to identify externally because so many of the parts interchange between motors from 332 cu in to 427..Be very careful when buying..
__________________

1968 mustang 408W Hybrid..Burns gas and rubber!
11.59@120.95 with 1.68 60ft

Last edited by frdnut; 10-19-2008 at 09:06 AM.
frdnut is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 10-19-2008, 10:23 AM   #12 (permalink)
Subscriber
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: The Queen City of the West
Posts: 506
Re: 427 vs. 428 vs. 429

Thanks Stu and William, I stand corrected. I was going on the engine's introduction to NASCAR.--Jay
__________________
The Black FoRd—1963 Galaxie 500 2-door sedan blk/blk. Factory-installed: R-code motor, 4 spd BW, 3.00:1, PW, AM/FM, rear spkr, 2 spd W&W, seat belts, WSW 7.10. Dealer: spotlight mirror. Orig owner: Sun tach+sender, fan clutch, rad. overflow. 2nd owner: radials, S/S exhaust.
QueenCityRcode is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 10-20-2008, 12:06 AM   #13 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 322
Re: 427 vs. 428 vs. 429

Yes , '68 was the first year for the 429, and only in T-Birds. Interestingly, a handful of early '68s still had 390s.
The only reason they stuck with 427 thru early '69 for NASCAR was the 429 simply wasn't ready yet,and let's not forget we are talking about the Boss version, quite a different animal from the regular Thunderjet
roger628 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 10-20-2008, 07:41 AM   #14 (permalink)
Subscriber
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: The Queen City of the West
Posts: 506
Re: 427 vs. 428 vs. 429

And, the venerable 427 didn't stop them from dominating NASCAR in '68. Ford and Mercury won 27 races that year, against 21 from Mopar and just 1 from Chevrolet.
__________________
The Black FoRd—1963 Galaxie 500 2-door sedan blk/blk. Factory-installed: R-code motor, 4 spd BW, 3.00:1, PW, AM/FM, rear spkr, 2 spd W&W, seat belts, WSW 7.10. Dealer: spotlight mirror. Orig owner: Sun tach+sender, fan clutch, rad. overflow. 2nd owner: radials, S/S exhaust.
QueenCityRcode is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 10-20-2008, 07:34 PM   #15 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Saskatoon, SK
Posts: 35
Re: 427 vs. 428 vs. 429

Quote:
429 - NOT an FE - this is a 385 series motor (same family as te 460). For pure HP/dollar you can probably get the most out of this engine at most price points if all you consider is the longblock build - the 385 series stuff is quite a bit more common than the FEs (although the FE crowd seems to be growing today and the aftermarket is attempting to get in gear). That said - you lose the cool factor of having an FE and if you have to modify mounts etc it might not be worth doing.
Roger says the 429 was from '68 and only in T-Birds, but I saw a '66 or '67 Galaxie 429 at a show this summer. Why would they (did they ever) put a 385 series in the Galaxie?

__________________
My site: http://edanneberg.googlepages.com

Last edited by e-tek racing; 10-20-2008 at 07:42 PM.
e-tek racing is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Ford Muscle Forums : Ford Muscle Cars Tech Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
If you do not want to register, fill this field only and the name will be used as user name for your post.
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 11:08 AM.



Powered by vBulletin® Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.6.0
 

Garage Plus vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.