Shorty cast iron header removal - Ford Muscle Forums : Ford Muscle Cars Tech Forum
FordMuscleForums.com is the premier Ford Forum on the internet. Registered Users do not see the above ads.
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 06-29-2009, 08:57 AM   #1 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Harpers Ferry, WV
Posts: 503
Shorty cast iron header removal

Any tips or specs for removing/installing the cast iron shorty header?
Tourque setting, bolt sequence tightening?

Any gotchas or watch out fors?
__________________
63 G code BoxTop 4spd
63 1/2 Z code 5 spd
Death Touch is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 06-29-2009, 12:21 PM   #2 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 5,797
Re: Shorty cast iron header removal

Quote:
Originally Posted by Death Touch View Post
Any tips or specs for removing/installing the cast iron shorty header?
Hey Mr. DT,
This is an issue with which I have had a wealth of experience.

The easiest way to do this is to pull the engine, and do the work on an engine stand. If you don't want to do that, then the next way is to remove the top of the engine including the heads, and remove the Headers on a bench.

BUT, if you insist on doing the work with the engine in the engine bay, then you need to follow the ensuing instructions.

The VERY FIRST thing that you NEED to do is take the Headers loose from the Exhaust Pipes. The NEXT thing is to loosen the 9/16" Grade 8 Upper Exhaust Flange Bolts.

BUT, BEFORE you attempt this seemingly innocuous feat, you will have to do the do the following BEFORE you remove the Spark Plug Leads from the Spark Plugs, or take the Ignition Lead out of the Distributor, as you will need to have the engine to where it will run.

In order to loosening the Top Exhaust Bolts it will be necessary to check to see if the heads on the 9/16" Grade 8 Exhaust Bolts are capable of withstanding the use of a six-point, 9/16" socket without rounding off the corners, and if they aren't you are going to have to obtain a Metrinch set.

Prior to attempting the loosening, soak the upper Exhaust Bolts liberally with Aero-Kroil, Liquid Wrench, WD40, PB Blaster, Quaker State QS14, Yield, and any other penetrating liquids on which you can lay your hands. None of this did ME any good, but it can't hurt and you can't get TOO much of this stuff into the open end of the Upper Bolt Holes in the Cylinder Head Exhaust Flanges.

Do this for two to three days (or more) before even TRYING to loosen a bolt.

When you are satisfied that you are ready to start loosening the bolts, start the engine, and bring it up to operating temperature in fact, the hotter the better. You might even block off the radiator to get the engine up into the 210 -220 range. Then begin loosening the bolts in any order you find convenient. You can even do this WHILE the engine is running, wearing gloves to keep from getting burned, and no sleeves to keep from getting any clothing caught in any spinning parts. It's a risky thing to do, but well worth the risk if you are successful.

You MAY need a breaker bar to get the bolts to come loose, and even with all this preparation, you still may STILL break off a bolt or two or three or... Well, you get the picture.

BUT if you're lucky, I mean if you're REALLY lucky, you may get all the bolts to break loose, and if you do, consider yourself blessed by the Gods of the FE Engines, and the Murff of the Great NorthWest.

If perchance you DO break off a bolt, or two, or three, or... you have no choice but to continue on.

Once all the bolts are loose, or broken, you can then shut off the engine, and you will be ready to get ready to remove the bottom bolts.

Remove the Oil Dipstick Tube. and remove the Shift Linkages on the Driver's Side.

You will need the vehicle to be up off the ground on Jack Stands so that you can reach the Bottom Bolts. These will not usually break off as they are in blind bolt holes.

The Bottom Bolts on Cylinders One and Five can be gotten with a 9/16" wrench from the top front of the engine. The rest are going to have to be gotten to by contorting your arms into all kinds of odd and unusual positions which will sometimes preclude your being able to SEE what you are doing, and you will have to do it all by "feel".

One of the MAJOR "PITA"s is the un-bending of the Locking Tabs. This is done with a long metal rod, and a small hammer and is a "hit and miss" situation (literally).

Once the Locking Tabs are all bent away from the Grade 8 Bolt heads, the bolts can be reached with short 9/16" open end/box end wrenches, sockets on extensions, and U-Joint sockets on extensions. It's a "do it any way you can think of" type of situation, entailing the turning of the steering wheel to move the steering linkage to get access.

Once all the bolts are loose, you can then remove them which will get the headers separated from the heads, BUT you still may not be able to get the Headers to come out of the engine bay without taking the engine mounts loose and jacking up the engine depending on the year and model of the vehicle.

This job is a beeeatch, and for a lonnnng running narrative of this process, you might want to read the threads titled: "The Great Exhaust Manifold Removel Caper", and "The Great Exhaust Manifold Reinstallation Caper".

They are a quite complete (with JPGs) and sometimes humorous, sometimes pathetic running narrative of everything that can possibly be done right AND wrong, everything that can possibly go right AND wrong, and at least a dozen suggestions that may or may not work in any given instance, including the use of Propane Torches, Acetylene Torches, Right Angle Drills, Files, RotoTools, Slots, Screwdriver Sockets and LOT and LOTS and LOTS of cursing.

But once the task is finished, the just lying under the old Gal feeling the warm glow of satisfaction is immense. Especially when you realize that what it REALLY is is HEAT STROKE! For THAT I recommend a cold shower, and a Tuna Salad Sandwich!

Quote:
Tourque setting,
The manual says: 12 to 18 ft. lbs. BUT since you can't get a Torque Wrench on any bolt other than the Top Bolt of Cylinder Three, you are just going to have to tighten them as tight as they will go, and let it go at that.

Quote:
bolt sequence tightening?
From the center out. BUT this too is but senseless speculation as you will find that you will just have to do it any way that you can.

The use of Gaskets is a persona preference thing. The same with the "type" of gasket (if any). Some insist that no gasket is necessary, and that only some kind of lubricant will suffice. Some prefer High Temperature RTV Silicone. I personally used LPS 1 Greasless Lubricant due to ease of application. One just gets the Headers pulled up to within 1/32" of an inch of the Cylinder Head Exhaust Flange Face, and then using the little red squirt tube right up against the gap, one just depresses the valve of the rattle can, and capilliary contraction takes the lubricant EVERYWHERE there are two coinciding surfaces.

Quote:
Any gotchas or watch out fors?
YES! Broken Upper Bolts, and "Cross Threading" of the Bottom Bolts when reinstalling.

Something that you might also do is to run a 3/8" tap through the top Bolt Holes to clean the threads BEFORE attempting reinstallation. AND use LOTS of Never Seize. And then to preclude Breaking any more bolts: On New Year's Day, as part of your celebration, go out and loosen and then retighten the Top Bolts as a maintenance function.

Good luck, and if I can be of any assistance, just give a whistle.

Oh, and too... Tim, Scott, Gary, Richard, and SouthernGAL (I can't for the life of me remember HIS name), et al are also compendiums of wisdom that is priceless in times of consternation.

Hope this finds YOU doing well.

How's THAT for brief, Gary? (typing time 3 minutes and 9 seconds)

JC
__________________
Ms. American 3.14159 - 1964 Ford Galaxie 500 - Model: 64 4-Door Hardtop - Body: 57B 4-Door Fastback - Police Interceptor - 390 FE - 330 HP - 3 Speed + O/D - 4.11:1 - Chantilly Beige - Beige on Beige
JCAllison is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 06-29-2009, 01:12 PM   #3 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Harpers Ferry, WV
Posts: 503
Re: Shorty cast iron header removal

Holy Crap! Where do i start? The engine is very clean (no rust on bolts or
headers). I tested one of the 9/16" with a wrench and surprisingly it cam loose
without too much effort. So I figured i would check here before going further.
Starting the engine is not an option as I am doing this to get a defective
starter out. I was originally going to do an engine swap but it is taking too
long to coordinate.

Remove dip stick and shift linkage? Did I forget to mention that this is a '63
with 4 speed?

thanks for your input.
__________________
63 G code BoxTop 4spd
63 1/2 Z code 5 spd
Death Touch is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 06-29-2009, 01:41 PM   #4 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 5,797
Re: Shorty cast iron header removal

Quote:
Originally Posted by Death Touch View Post
Holy Crap! Where do i start?
Hey DT,
We're already at the top of the back stretch.

Quote:
The engine is very clean (no rust on bolts or headers). I tested one of the 9/16" with a wrench and surprisingly it cam loose without too much effort. So I figured i would check here before going further.
Well, you might be trying to do this to an engine that isn't 20 years into the last rebuild.

Quote:
Starting the engine is not an option as I am doing this to get a defective starter out.
You're trying to remove the Passenger Side Header to get a Starter out? I'm not sure about your '63, but on a '64 you don't have to remove the header to do that. Just drop the bracket that holds the steering linkage to the frame, and you can get the starter out pronto.

Quote:
I was originally going to do an engine swap but it is taking too long to coordinate.
I know what you mean. Coordinating an engine is a major project.

Quote:
Remove dip stick and shift linkage? Did I forget to mention that this is a '63 with 4 speed?
I didn't see ANYTHING about a '63 with a 4 speed. But you can just forget all that oil dipstick and shift linkage stuff if all you are trying to do is get the Passenger Side Header off. And like I said, check into removing the bracket that is on the Passenger Side Frame Rail with all the steering linkage fastened to it. It comes off with just the removal of two nuts, and once it is swung out of the way, the starter will drop right out, unless the '63 is a helluva lot different that a '64.

Quote:
thanks for your input.
Well, I've been here for almost two years now, and I just figured it's payback time for all the help I've gotten if it's something with which I'm familiar.

Hope this finds YOU doing well.

JC

PS: Would you believe that it's raining here? I was just outside for a second, and the rain is warmer than the water in which I shower! It hits the ground and goes "Sizzzzzzzzzzzzzzz!" No, HONEST!
__________________
Ms. American 3.14159 - 1964 Ford Galaxie 500 - Model: 64 4-Door Hardtop - Body: 57B 4-Door Fastback - Police Interceptor - 390 FE - 330 HP - 3 Speed + O/D - 4.11:1 - Chantilly Beige - Beige on Beige
JCAllison is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 06-29-2009, 06:33 PM   #5 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Harpers Ferry, WV
Posts: 503
Re: Shorty cast iron header removal

Our '63 has a "bendix" starter (long neck going into the bell housing).
I remember someone saying that the shop manual calls for the header to be
removed to get this starter out. Just wanted to know if there were bolt
removal paterns and what not.


Linkage is not in the way, just the header and what looks like a cross member.

Engine build is probably less than 2 years old. Very clean but has a habit of
seeping fuel out of the carbs onto the intake if it sits a long time.

I will hit the bolts on Thursday with some WD40 and attempt the change out Friday. I might even take some pics! Even if I screw up, the engine swap is
going to happen anyway sooner or later.
__________________
63 G code BoxTop 4spd
63 1/2 Z code 5 spd
Death Touch is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 06-29-2009, 10:29 PM   #6 (permalink)
Subscriber
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: The Queen City of the West
Posts: 506
Re: Shorty cast iron header removal

Quote:
Originally Posted by Death Touch View Post
Our '63 has a "bendix" starter (long neck going into the bell housing).
I remember someone saying that the shop manual calls for the header to be
removed to get this starter out. Just wanted to know if there were bolt
removal paterns and what not.

Linkage is not in the way, just the header and what looks like a cross member.

Engine build is probably less than 2 years old. Very clean but has a habit of
seeping fuel out of the carbs onto the intake if it sits a long time.

I will hit the bolts on Thursday with some WD40 and attempt the change out Friday. I might even take some pics! Even if I screw up, the engine swap is
going to happen anyway sooner or later.
Death,
I suspect you could have an easier time of it than JC had, and hopefully not so bad as our factory long headers. Our OE starter died while in the shop for some valve work, which meant the right/passenger header had to come off, which meant the old-timer bolts broke, which meant the whole 427 engine had to come out, which meant...ad infinitum. Hopefully if your rebuild is reasonably fresh, you can with much elbow lubricant pull them off in the bay. But I have no specific advice, only that you not go and pull the engine before eliminating other possibilities.

Jay
__________________
The Black FoRd—1963 Galaxie 500 2-door sedan blk/blk. Factory-installed: R-code motor, 4 spd BW, 3.00:1, PW, AM/FM, rear spkr, 2 spd W&W, seat belts, WSW 7.10. Dealer: spotlight mirror. Orig owner: Sun tach+sender, fan clutch, rad. overflow. 2nd owner: radials, S/S exhaust.
QueenCityRcode is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 06-30-2009, 06:53 AM   #7 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Harpers Ferry, WV
Posts: 503
Re: Shorty cast iron header removal

Quote:
Originally Posted by QueenCityRcode View Post
Death,
I suspect you could have an easier time of it than JC had, and hopefully not so bad as our factory long headers. Our OE starter died while in the shop for some valve work, which meant the right/passenger header had to come off, which meant the old-timer bolts broke, which meant the whole 427 engine had to come out, which meant...ad infinitum. Hopefully if your rebuild is reasonably fresh, you can with much elbow lubricant pull them off in the bay. But I have no specific advice, only that you not go and pull the engine before eliminating other possibilities.

Jay
Roger that!

Any knowledge on this bendix starter? Was it only in '63? On all V8's?
__________________
63 G code BoxTop 4spd
63 1/2 Z code 5 spd
Death Touch is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 06-30-2009, 07:14 AM   #8 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Florence, AL
Posts: 2,764
Garage
Re: Shorty cast iron header removal

I know 62s also had the Bendix style starters. They are a pain to change with manifolds. You have my sympathies. I actually have one of these starters laying in the floor of the shop right now. It will not be reused.
__________________
1962 Galaxie 500 2 door sedan(62A)
402FE/Tremec 3550
The car is named Albert(Big Al, not Big Gal!)
1986 Mustang Notchback. Regatta blue! (My daily driver)
Domino is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 06-30-2009, 07:42 AM   #9 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 569
Re: Shorty cast iron header removal

Death Touch,

Depending on how long the top bolts have been on will determine the scope of removal. Use a good 6 point box wrench and try to loosen the top bolts. If it breaks free with minimal effort work it back and forth, that along with the peneterating oil you use should do the trick, if the bolts don't break free right away with minimal effort DO NOT FORCE THEM...THEY WILL SNAP!!!!
If they don't break free use an acyetelene torch with a heating tip and heat up the ears on the head cherry red and work the bolt in and out slowly, you may have to reheat them a time or two but if you keep applying heat to them they won't snap. This advice was given to JC early on and he didn't have access to a torch in the begining and thus the "caper". The bottom ones can be accessed with a swivel 9/16" socket and a long extension. These will break loose and should come out with no problem. Reinstalling them is pretty straightforward, it would be a good idea to replace the old bolts with a new set of grade 8 bolts,get all the bolts caught and snug them up. then start from the center and work your way out tightening them down, get them as tight as you can using the box wrench and one hand. You can retighten them after the engine has warmed up.
As far as the starter removal goes I can't say how much interference you will have with the shorties however on the long ones the header has to be unbolted, the engine jacked up, the motor mount removed and the idler arm dropped. These starters were used in all the Y blocks and the FEs untill 1965. Hope this helps.
__________________
Tony P.
UTRY is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 06-30-2009, 10:05 AM   #10 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Harpers Ferry, WV
Posts: 503
Re: Shorty cast iron header removal

Good stuff guys! Thanks to everyone for the info.
Will let you know what happens.
__________________
63 G code BoxTop 4spd
63 1/2 Z code 5 spd
Death Touch is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 07-01-2009, 06:31 AM   #11 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 47
Re: Shorty cast iron header removal

This may be a day late but the starter should drop out without removing the mainfold as was said before. I just did this on a 62 g code last month. You have to drop the idler arm down and your all set. Removing the two bolts in the frame should get you there.
blueoval67 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 07-01-2009, 07:15 AM   #12 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 5,797
Re: Shorty cast iron header removal

Quote:
Originally Posted by blueoval67 View Post
This may be a day late but the starter should drop out without removing the mainfold as was said before. I just did this on a 62 g code last month. You have to drop the idler arm down and your all set. Removing the two bolts in the frame should get you there.
Hey BO,
The big bug-a-boo glitch that prevents this was listed as being the "long Bendix unit" on the starter, but Ms. American has THAT exact Bendix, and it STILL comes out by just removing the Idler Arm Bracket.

BUT I have to say that taking off the Shorty Header is just SOOOOO much FUN that I think Mr. DT should do it just for kicks, even if he gets the starter out without HAVING to do it!

I know, I wouldn't trade the experience for all the cow-bell you could put in a thimble.

JC
__________________
Ms. American 3.14159 - 1964 Ford Galaxie 500 - Model: 64 4-Door Hardtop - Body: 57B 4-Door Fastback - Police Interceptor - 390 FE - 330 HP - 3 Speed + O/D - 4.11:1 - Chantilly Beige - Beige on Beige
JCAllison is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 07-01-2009, 07:22 AM   #13 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: mocksville nc.-
Posts: 4,066
Re: Shorty cast iron header removal

JC --you are a cruel cruel man --
__________________
Democracy is two wolves and a lamb discussing what's for dinner. Liberty is a well armed lamb willing to contest the majority decision".
Rich27028 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 07-01-2009, 08:13 AM   #14 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 5,797
Re: Shorty cast iron header removal

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich27028 View Post
JC --you are a cruel cruel man --
Hey my DEAR Mr. DH,
It was inadvertent, I assure you!

You know, Richard, Sometimes you just CRACK me up!

JC
__________________
Ms. American 3.14159 - 1964 Ford Galaxie 500 - Model: 64 4-Door Hardtop - Body: 57B 4-Door Fastback - Police Interceptor - 390 FE - 330 HP - 3 Speed + O/D - 4.11:1 - Chantilly Beige - Beige on Beige
JCAllison is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 07-01-2009, 08:33 AM   #15 (permalink)
Subscriber
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Aptos, California
Posts: 232
Re: Shorty cast iron header removal

Yesterday, I finished removing a broken off bolt on the top of number five cylinder. It was broken off flush to the cylinder head and had been that way for a long time before I got the car. Drilling a pilot hole is tough so this is what I used. I have a Dremel tool with an angle head attachment. I used this bit from Dremel to hog out the bolt and save the threads in the cylinder head.

9906 Tungsten Carbide Cutter / Model: 9906


This engine has never been apart and all the bolts are original with the tabs bent over the bolt heads. I also soaked all the bolts with PB Blaster for a week. The others all came out with a 9/16 end wrench, and/or breaker bar and socket (Snap-on) I recommend a high quality six point end wrench if possible but a 12 point will work. If using a breaker bar and socket, try a 3/8" size breaker bar first. The 1/2'' breaker bar is too powerful and doesn't give you the "feel" before twisting the bolt. I started by tightening the bolt first and the loosening in very small increments until it started to move. Then loosening maybe a 1/4 turn and back again until it loosens enough to thread all the way out. Low end hand wrenches are trouble when it comes to this job. Use Craftsman or better for the best luck as cheapo wrenches/sockets will be your worst enemy in this. Sears used to or still does make a lower grade of hand tools, branded as Sears, make sure it is a Craftsman wrench.Take your time with the Dremel bit for a broken a bolt being careful to not damage the threads in the head. Worse case scenario if the threads are ruined and I have seen people do this on all the upper row of manifold bolt holes. They hog out the threads and install grade 8 bolts and nuts on the up side to tighten the manifold. This does mean a small amount of grinding the upper head side area around some the holes so the nut and washer can sit flat. Again, the Dremel is good for this job as well. Hope this helps some.

Mark
hardfordcore is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Ford Muscle Forums : Ford Muscle Cars Tech Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
cast iron shorty header question wfritchen Galaxie Pages 3 08-14-2008 03:33 PM
Fe cast iron headers Rcode427 The Garage 4 02-17-2008 09:42 PM
cast iron headers anotherproject Galaxie Pages 3 03-05-2006 10:05 PM
Cast Iron Cam Gear Cacciato All Ford Techboard 2 08-05-2003 11:37 PM
Cast Iron Headers FE unibody All Ford Techboard 1 04-21-2002 02:30 PM


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 05:19 PM.



Powered by vBulletin® Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.6.0
 

Garage Plus vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.