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Old 06-27-2011, 08:11 PM   #1 (permalink)
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390 2v to 4v Conversion

Hello All - (haven't posted in a while)... I have been evaluating whether or not to convert the 390 2v in my 67 Galaxie Hardtop to a 4v. (still un-decided, but I need to decide soon as my engine is coming out of my car in a few weeks)...

Anyway - maybe some might find some of my research useful in the future:

Differences between the 2v and 4v.

Carb: 2v has the Autolite 2100, 4v has the Autolite 4100
Intake: Obvious
The 2v has a coolant spacer between the carb and intake, the 4v does not
The 4v has an Exhaust Control Valve sitting between the manifold and the exhaust pipe

The 2v has a compression ratio of 9.5:1, the 4v has a compression ratio of 10.0:1, which must mean the heads are different.

If anyone else has any other notes on the differences, let me know!

Thanks,

Eric
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Old 06-28-2011, 06:45 AM   #2 (permalink)
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Re: 390 2v to 4v Conversion

Are you going to make the other revisions necessary to make this engine in to a premium fuel one?

Keep going as you are long ways from finished.

Wm.
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Old 06-28-2011, 07:41 AM   #3 (permalink)
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Re: 390 2v to 4v Conversion

Hey Coosbay - What revisions would those be? - Like I said, I am trying to make a list of the requirements to convert from a 2v to a 4v, so I can make a fully informed decision on whether I am going to do it. And maybe help others in the process that contemplate this decision down the road...

Thanks!

Eric
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Old 06-28-2011, 08:04 AM   #4 (permalink)
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Re: 390 2v to 4v Conversion

You may need to re-phrase your intial question.

Are plenty of engine swaps going on here, just need to dig in to one of those. Look into converting a 352 in to a 390.

And do not use any truck parts. They are often regular fuel only low compression.


Wm.
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Old 06-28-2011, 08:38 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Re: 390 2v to 4v Conversion

Conversion is actually pretty simple. Heads are different if your after the compression, otherwise, your stock 2v heads can handle a mild 4v. No alteration to your compression. As for the air cleaner mess, just get rid of it, waste of space in my opinion. Slap an open element 3" on it and have fun.
If your after the full effect and want the higher compression heads, then yes, you need to run premium fuel. Likely a plenum for a cold air intake or scoop as well, your engine temperature will increase leading to an uncomfortable stall while out driving.
The biggest thing to consider in my opinion would be changing the exhaust as well, headers do wonders and outperform the stock exhaust much more then any other engine I have dealt with.
And the carburetor size should be around 600-650 cfm, unless your after cobra jet heads, porting, and racing, keep it low.
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Old 06-28-2011, 10:24 AM   #6 (permalink)
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Re: 390 2v to 4v Conversion

390 2bbl and 4bbl heads are the same. In fact, non-Hiperf 352, 390, 410, and non CJ 428 heads are all the same. For example: C6AE-R heads can be found stock on any of those engines from a 1966 or 1967 (no 352 in 67) model year vehicle regardless of 2bbl or 4bbl. Most FE heads run in the low-mid 70's cc range. The big difference in most Hiperf heads was port and valve sizes.

The difference in compression between stock 2bbl and 4bbl 390's is the pistons. Stock 2bbl pistons have a large circular dish to reduce compression. So to properly convert an H code to a Z code, new pistons would be in order in addition to intake swaps.

But as stated above, when you get into 10:1 compression and up, you're more likely to run into detonation issues. A better plan of attack to get more power from your stock 2v is to leave compression where it is (9.5:1 ain't bad) and concentrate on breathing. A 4bbl carb and modern aluminum intake (not the 60's stock iron piece) will get more air in. A set of headers to replace the abysmal stock log manifold will do you more good than anything by letting much more air out. And cleaning up the head ports from casting flash along with a good port match will let your stock heads breathe better. Or if you can afford it, get the Edelbrock aluminum heads. To capitalize on your improved breathing, get a new cam with a bit more lift and duration. Stock FE cams are pretty small, and a new cam in the .500" / 274* range will really wake up your engine and be very streetable.

With the mods above, your former 2bbl engine will make more power than the stock 10:1 Z code 4bbl did from the factory and still run happily on pump gas.
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Old 06-28-2011, 10:52 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Re: 390 2v to 4v Conversion

I hope you don't mind me asking a question in your thread! I just bought a '68 Galaxie with a 390 & 4bbl, but when I ran the VIN, it shows the car came with a 2bbl. I have no idea when it was changed over, but I've heard that a lot of cars don't run to their full potential after this type of swap is made, because the carb doesn't get tuned properly. It seems to start & idle well, but I'm wondering if I should have someone check it out to see about tweaking/tuning the carb?
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Old 06-28-2011, 11:56 AM   #8 (permalink)
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Re: 390 2v to 4v Conversion

Thanks Guys that's good information... Pretty much what I was looking for.

Tex - great explanation and thank you..

I am leaning towards leaving it stock 2v. Its a great car as is, and I am in the process of restoration. Performance isn't a huge deal to me on this car... I am more focused on it's looks...

Anyway - I am pulling the engine soon to clean up, replace gaskets, etc., and paint. Body is coming off, and the frame is getting a full work-over as well.

Now - When I finally buy a 66 2-door, then, maybe the engine will get some performance attention.
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Old 06-28-2011, 12:00 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Re: 390 2v to 4v Conversion

Here is her current condition:

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390 2v to 4v Conversion-galaxie-6-28-2011.jpg  
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Old 06-28-2011, 01:00 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Re: 390 2v to 4v Conversion

Quote:
Originally Posted by ekubischta View Post
The 2v has a coolant spacer between the carb and intake, the 4v does not.
Hey Mr. E,
Am not familiar with 1966 Galaxies.

Ms. American 3.14159 has a 1964 FE 390 with a 4V Carburetor, and she has a "coolant spacer" between the Carburetor and Intake Manifold, and while the "coolant"does go through that spacer, it is NOT to cool it, but rather to heat the Carburetor.

Quote:
The 4v has an Exhaust Control Valve sitting between the manifold and the exhaust pipe.
What is an "Exhaust Control Valve"?

JC
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Old 06-28-2011, 01:08 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Re: 390 2v to 4v Conversion

Hey JC - As far as I can tell, the Exhaust Control Valve performs a similar function on the 4v as the spacer does on the 2v - Provides warm air to the carb.

As far as I can tell from the diagram, the Exhaust Control Valve is closed on engine start, keeping exhaust back to provide warm air back. Once things warm up, it opens... Looks like a butterfly valve...

That's what I gather anyway from the drawings in the shop manual.
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Old 06-28-2011, 01:25 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Re: 390 2v to 4v Conversion

Quote:
Originally Posted by ekubischta View Post
Hey JC - As far as I can tell, the Exhaust Control Valve performs a similar function on the 4v as the spacer does on the 2v - Provides warm air to the carb.

As far as I can tell from the diagram, the Exhaust Control Valve is closed on engine start, keeping exhaust back to provide warm air back. Once things warm up, it opens... Looks like a butterfly valve...

That's what I gather anyway from the drawings in the shop manual.
You're speaking of the butterfly in the exhaust manifold correct? I'm not sure I'd trust those personally.

I know some of the (maybe all, not sure) FE intakes use exhaust from the head to help warm up the car faster. I think this is what you're speaking of.

The aftermarket intake I used on my 390 (performer RPM #7105) does not have this provision. Your gaskets will seal that passage between the head and intake so it's not a problem.


If you do go aftermarket you will likely need to remove the dowel pin at the front drivers side of the block if your car has one. I attempted to pull mine out but ended up just grinding it flush as I couldn't get it to budge either way.

with dual exhaust and a 4v you will feel the difference in the cars power.

It's a worthwhile swap that I would consider if I had a 2v intake.
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Old 06-28-2011, 02:06 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Re: 390 2v to 4v Conversion

Quote:
Originally Posted by ekubischta View Post
Thanks Guys that's good information... Pretty much what I was looking for.

Tex - great explanation and thank you..

I am leaning towards leaving it stock 2v. Its a great car as is, and I am in the process of restoration. Performance isn't a huge deal to me on this car... I am more focused on it's looks...

Anyway - I am pulling the engine soon to clean up, replace gaskets, etc., and paint. Body is coming off, and the frame is getting a full work-over as well.

Now - When I finally buy a 66 2-door, then, maybe the engine will get some performance attention.
Big job, but fun!

Didja see mine... >> http://www.fordmuscleforums.com/gala...xie-500xl.html
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Old 06-28-2011, 02:14 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Re: 390 2v to 4v Conversion

Quote:
Originally Posted by galaxiex View Post
Big job, but fun!

Didja see mine... >> http://www.fordmuscleforums.com/gala...xie-500xl.html

Wow! - Looks like what I'm getting ready to go through...

Off Topic Question - Your Upper Control Arms - What was your process? - Did you press out the bushings, then paint everything, then press them back in? - Also, did you have any rivets to deal with?
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Old 06-28-2011, 03:28 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Re: 390 2v to 4v Conversion

Quote:
Originally Posted by ekubischta View Post
Wow! - Looks like what I'm getting ready to go through...

Off Topic Question - Your Upper Control Arms - What was your process? - Did you press out the bushings, then paint everything, then press them back in? - Also, did you have any rivets to deal with?
Inner bushings....
I re-used the outer shells, drilled out the rubber and removed the rubber and inner sleeve.
Left the outer shells in place in the arm.
Then sand blast and paint the arms.
Then installed poly inner bushings. Stock inner shaft.

Upper ball joints... stock I think they are riveted in. Mine were not riveted, I think had already been changed, they were bolted in.
I replaced them anyway, new ball joints came with new bolts.
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