New '65 Owner with a bunch of questions. - Ford Muscle Forums : Ford Muscle Cars Tech Forum
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post #1 of 22 (permalink) Old 12-18-2016, 07:37 PM Thread Starter
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New '65 Owner with a bunch of questions.

Hey All,

Just picked up a stock driver this fall and was hoping you folks could guide me in the right direction and maybe straighten my learning curve a lot.

Car is currently a stock driver, but I have a handful of things on the to do list that I would like to start pricing out and prioritizing the order of on the shopping list.

The goal is to make a more sport touring version of it and planing to make it a daily driver for the good weather portion of the year. If possible, I would like to try and get low 20mpg on the highway at 70-75mph.

1. Power brakes - I've come across posts recommending the front kit off ebay.
2. Power steering - Read the factory stuff wasn't that great, so hoping for a better retrofit.
4. A/C - Haven't seen anything that was listed as a "kit" for the car.
3. Wheels - Thinking 17-18".
4. Interior - New covers for seats and door panel that I could order in non-stock color combos.
5. Suspension - Found a bunch of stuff from Hotchkis.
6. Auto trans w/ overdrive?
7. Different rear end gears?

Thanks.
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post #2 of 22 (permalink) Old 12-18-2016, 07:48 PM
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Re: New '65 Owner with a bunch of questions.

To help you get your answers what motor do you have? and welcome to the site.

Iowan



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post #3 of 22 (permalink) Old 12-18-2016, 07:49 PM
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Re: New '65 Owner with a bunch of questions.

I'll be watching your progress. You might start with a good frame inspection, they do have a reputation for rot in the torque box areas. My left rear (in front of tire) is bad on my 65, everything else is solid. I might just build a new frame so I can 4 link the rear and do coil over in the front. How about posting a pic or two?
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post #4 of 22 (permalink) Old 12-18-2016, 08:34 PM Thread Starter
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It has the 352. Not sure what trans or rear end.
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post #5 of 22 (permalink) Old 12-18-2016, 08:35 PM Thread Starter
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Wow those pics uploaded badly.

The frame has been repaired. Not a great looking job, but it's solid.
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post #6 of 22 (permalink) Old 12-18-2016, 10:12 PM
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Re: New '65 Owner with a bunch of questions.

1. Power brakes - I have 'em and like 'em. Can be difficult figuring the new pedal height.
2. Power steering - Factory is great IMO but for sheer value, you cant beat a suicide knob.
4. A/C - In Texas, a "must have." Forget factory its not worth it. Two companies make the add on kits.
3. Wheels - I have 17" and feel every rock in the road. They do look good though.
4. Interior - Design your own for under $1,000 see my pic.
5. Suspension - bigger roll bar, OK. remember: stiffer = uncomfortable
6. Auto trans w/ overdrive? I get 8.6 mpg. what would overdrive get me, 10.6?
7. Different rear end gears? A 3.5 is the cheapest city punch you can buy.

Let me add as 8., make sure you got a good running engine. 289, 352, 390, whatever. Nothing makes you want to keep that car garaged like stalling out in intersections. After the engine is running 99%, then work on nos 1-7.

Good luck, 65 man!
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To every man upon this earth
Death cometh soon or late.

Putts drives a 1965 Galaxie. Rebuilt 390, 4100 on a Performer, MX, AC, PS, PB w Scarebird front discs on Cragar 17" S/S.

Last edited by puttster; 12-19-2016 at 03:12 PM.
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post #7 of 22 (permalink) Old 12-19-2016, 04:38 AM Thread Starter
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Engine seems to run fine. My brother had the car over the summer and drove it at least a few times week. The only known issue with it mechanically is the brakes. We think it's one of the wheel cylinders leaking.
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post #8 of 22 (permalink) Old 12-19-2016, 03:58 PM
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Re: New '65 Owner with a bunch of questions.

welcome-
on the list, especially since you mentioned brake leak, I would strongly suggest starting there... replace all the lines with nickel- copper and the three hoses, and consider splitting the front/rear using a dual reservoir master... kits are available cheap, line/hoses are cheap... Id go ahead and redo the park brake cables while you are at it, as most cars were automatics and as such, the parking brake cables are usually shot from not being used...
I tend to harp on dual circuit brakes, just because as a kid a neighbor wrapped a beautiful gts dart around a tree after a single point leak left hime with zero brakes...at least dual circuits you will always have at least some braking ability- there was a good reason they were mandated on everything in 66 or 67- aside from one extra fitting, it wont cost but a few dollars more.

handling i agree is not good, ive got a 2000 mercury with the handling package im gonna scrap ou, think I might try those sway bars under the 65...width/weight should be close enough- will see...know the slender front sway bar dont do much, it leans around corners like...well, you know that already

for wheels I opted for 16s- always liked the handling pkg wheels on big cars- our 65/2000/2002 all wear them

please do keep a eye on that frame... hate to be such a naysayer, but man, these frames rot from the inside out in spectacular fashion- and almost all have i got some parts off one at a colorado boneyard that was beautiful underneath- but bent from rearend damage... looking it over noticed a 'damp' spot on one rail, easily pushed a screwdriver right thru it- looked mint on outside, but inside the eggshell thin suface was a inch of mud/rust...ford had no drains in the lower rails, mud gets in from road splash by the holes in rearwheel wells, builds up a layer of mud from the bottom of rear arches to the front torque boxes...really no way to clean out or even inspect. *IF* I ever got a clean one(doubtful) I would holesaw some holes in the bottom of the rails to flust the dirt out/acid etch/spray paint up in...a hole in the frame might make a weak spot, but in my opinion, any that ever lived outside a desert area are most likely on their way to sproting a hole on their own anyway...you can click the link in my sig to see our 65s rust issues- i was one of the worst messes i've ever seen...

good luck on your 65, this site is a great resource for galaxie fans!
tim

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post #9 of 22 (permalink) Old 12-19-2016, 05:18 PM Thread Starter
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Re: New '65 Owner with a bunch of questions.

Quote:
Originally Posted by puttster View Post
1. Power brakes - I have 'em and like 'em. Can be difficult figuring the new pedal height.

This is a for sure and top of the list.

2. Power steering - Factory is great IMO but for sheer value, you cant beat a suicide knob.

Anyone offer full kits, or is it something I'd have to piece together from a parts list?

4. A/C - In Texas, a "must have." Forget factory its not worth it. Two companies make the add on kits.

Which 2 companies? I'm guessing Vintage Air, which I thought I looked at and didn't see a kit listed.

3. Wheels - I have 17" and feel every rock in the road. They do look good though.

I have a truck that has heavier duty suspension, and my current cars sport suspension, and had many lowered cars in the past, so I should be ok with the ride.

4. Interior - Design your own for under $1,000 see my pic.

Did you have a local place do them, or did you order it?

5. Suspension - bigger roll bar, OK. remember: stiffer = uncomfortable

From previous experiences, go with a bigger bar and not an overly stiff spring rate. Keeps travel on the straights and tightens up in the corners.

6. Auto trans w/ overdrive? I get 8.6 mpg. what would overdrive get me, 10.6?

No idea, I don't know gearing.

7. Different rear end gears? A 3.5 is the cheapest city punch you can buy.

Not to concerned about city punch as much as I am distance cruising.

Good luck, 65 man!


Quote:
Originally Posted by ford4v429 View Post
welcome-
on the list, especially since you mentioned brake leak, I would strongly suggest starting there... replace all the lines with nickel- copper and the three hoses, and consider splitting the front/rear using a dual reservoir master... kits are available cheap, line/hoses are cheap... Id go ahead and redo the park brake cables while you are at it, as most cars were automatics and as such, the parking brake cables are usually shot from not being used...
I tend to harp on dual circuit brakes, just because as a kid a neighbor wrapped a beautiful gts dart around a tree after a single point leak left hime with zero brakes...at least dual circuits you will always have at least some braking ability- there was a good reason they were mandated on everything in 66 or 67- aside from one extra fitting, it wont cost but a few dollars more.

Wouldn't have thought about the dual master cylinder, and parking brake cable. With being an auto, I could just toss the parking brake as I don't know that I've ever used it in any auto I've own. We don't really have hills here to park on.

please do keep a eye on that frame...

I'll get it in the air and do a little prodding around and see if I can find anything.

tim
...
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post #10 of 22 (permalink) Old 12-20-2016, 09:54 AM
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Re: New '65 Owner with a bunch of questions.

To make it a good driver you don't have to spend gobs of money on fancy suspension kits. For great highway cruising the stock suspension is going to be real good. You will need new bushings and springs and upgraded sway bars would be a great addition, but these cars will not be taunt corner carvers like modern full size cars. You could make it into an autocross car, but then it would not be a great highway car.

My guess is it will be a real chore to coax 20+ mpg out of that old FE. Swapping in a modern, computer controlled engine and trans may be the answer, and may not be more expensive than building an FE to attempt to meet your expectations. I'm sure there are a few people here who will get 20 mpg out of their FE's, so hopefully they can share the recipe for the secret sauce that got them there. I can get around 20 mpg on the highway with my small block, but that is imperial gallons, which are 20% bigger than US gallons, so it would only get 16 mpg south of the border.

Make it safe first, stop, turn and suspension, and run reliably, then drive it for a while and get a feel for where you want to take. FE's are notorious for being expensive to build, but this is your car and you can make it anything you want. All it takes is money. ;-)

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post #11 of 22 (permalink) Old 12-20-2016, 10:12 AM
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Re: New '65 Owner with a bunch of questions.

1. Power brakes - I've come across posts recommending the front kit off ebay.

Unless you're just looking for a soft touch brake pedal, stick with the manual and rebuild your brake system. I orginally wanted to do power - however once I rebuild my 4x drum system with no booster I came to like the non-power. Gives you more of a feel. Brake parts are cheap and easy like others have said. Rebuild from the pad to the master, I have a build thread that should list out all the parts you need. Also, like everyone else said, swap to a dual master.

2. Power steering - Read the factory stuff wasn't that great, so hoping for a better retrofit.

Does your car already have power steering? If not, there may be a better fit, if so, I would keep the factory steering, mine has factory power (had to rebuild the box because it was leaking) put it has finger steering, these cars aren't agile- don't really need anything crazy.

4. A/C - Haven't seen anything that was listed as a "kit" for the car.

Vintage air sells somewhat of a "kit", doubtful you'll find a perfect happy bolt on kit. I used a factory compressor bracket, with a Saden to York conversion plate. When I got my car the compressor was kinda rigged in and fell apart. The "kit" came with cheap plastic bolt on air vents, I tracked down a dash assembly from a factory AC car and converted the applicable pieces. They were able to rig up the existing controls to work with the new system- however I'm not the biggest fan and would recommend a different control switch.

3. Wheels - Thinking 17-18".

Sure, think mine are 17.

4. Interior - New covers for seats and door panel that I could order in non-stock color combos.

You can order seat covers, carpet, door skins, headliner... ect..

5. Suspension - Found a bunch of stuff from Hotchkis.

I'm not sure what kind of budget your on, however to really start upgrading the suspension your talking big $$$, and from what I've seen, you're just looking for a driver? I would just replace everything that's on it and call it a day (ball joints, steering stabilizer, control arm bushings, tie rod/ends, shocks, absorbers, ect...) . These cars are boats, it's never going to be agile, it drives like a boat. You got a big old classic car, not a Miata.

6. Auto trans w/ overdrive?

If you want, I have a rebuild 3 speed cruis-o-matic and it does fine, I comfortably cruise at 70mph without it screaming or working it too hard. Not to be an ass, but I think you are dreaming at 20mph without a major engine swap - maybe a v6 eco boost? Again, you got a big old classic car, gas is cheap right now, enjoy it. You may be able to squeeze 15mph out of it.

7. Different rear end gears?

Depends on what you are looking for, mine has stock gears in it and does 70mph fine without screaming, you go up in gear size, you go up in RPM at 70mph.

-Zig


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post #12 of 22 (permalink) Old 12-20-2016, 07:35 PM
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Man, I want me some those Imperial gallons, wish they had locally I could really improve my milage.
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post #13 of 22 (permalink) Old 12-21-2016, 02:57 PM
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Re: New '65 Owner with a bunch of questions.

Quote:
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Man, I want me some those Imperial gallons, wish they had locally I could really improve my milage.
LOL, But only until you see the price! The currency exchange is working in your favour right now, so the hit wouldn't be so bad.

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post #14 of 22 (permalink) Old 12-23-2016, 07:38 PM Thread Starter
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Re: New '65 Owner with a bunch of questions.

Quote:
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1. Power brakes - I've come across posts recommending the front kit off ebay.

Unless you're just looking for a soft touch brake pedal, stick with the manual and rebuild your brake system. I orginally wanted to do power - however once I rebuild my 4x drum system with no booster I came to like the non-power. Gives you more of a feel. Brake parts are cheap and easy like others have said. Rebuild from the pad to the master, I have a build thread that should list out all the parts you need. Also, like everyone else said, swap to a dual master.

I'm just used to stopping, and stopping now. Even in my full size truck.


2. Power steering - Read the factory stuff wasn't that great, so hoping for a better retrofit.

Does your car already have power steering? If not, there may be a better fit, if so, I would keep the factory steering, mine has factory power (had to rebuild the box because it was leaking) put it has finger steering, these cars aren't agile- don't really need anything crazy.

It's a non-power car, so starting from scratch.


4. A/C - Haven't seen anything that was listed as a "kit" for the car.

Vintage air sells somewhat of a "kit", doubtful you'll find a perfect happy bolt on kit. I used a factory compressor bracket, with a Saden to York conversion plate. When I got my car the compressor was kinda rigged in and fell apart. The "kit" came with cheap plastic bolt on air vents, I tracked down a dash assembly from a factory AC car and converted the applicable pieces. They were able to rig up the existing controls to work with the new system- however I'm not the biggest fan and would recommend a different control switch.

3. Wheels - Thinking 17-18".

Sure, think mine are 17.

4. Interior - New covers for seats and door panel that I could order in non-stock color combos.

You can order seat covers, carpet, door skins, headliner... ect..

Suggested suppliers based on quality vs price?


5. Suspension - Found a bunch of stuff from Hotchkis.

I'm not sure what kind of budget your on, however to really start upgrading the suspension your talking big $$$, and from what I've seen, you're just looking for a driver? I would just replace everything that's on it and call it a day (ball joints, steering stabilizer, control arm bushings, tie rod/ends, shocks, absorbers, ect...) . These cars are boats, it's never going to be agile, it drives like a boat. You got a big old classic car, not a Miata.

Not a huge budget, but a couple thousand is pretty normal for shocks/springs/sways. My 2006 Chevy 1500 4wd doesn't have much lean and holds in the corners pretty well. So I guess I'm expecting it to meet or exceed that. Not expecting it to match my other cars.

The specs on find via google say the cars curb weight is about 3500lbs. Is that accurate? If so, it's about 500lbs lighter than my current car and more than that vs my truck, so I guess I wasn't considering it that heavy.

6. Auto trans w/ overdrive?

If you want, I have a rebuild 3 speed cruis-o-matic and it does fine, I comfortably cruise at 70mph without it screaming or working it too hard. Not to be an ass, but I think you are dreaming at 20mph without a major engine swap - maybe a v6 eco boost? Again, you got a big old classic car, gas is cheap right now, enjoy it. You may be able to squeeze 15mph out of it.

I may be dreaming. That's why I'm asking all of these various questions. This is my first venture into the old car realm, so I need to find out what is a realistic goal and what isn't.


7. Different rear end gears?


Depends on what you are looking for, mine has stock gears in it and does 70mph fine without screaming, you go up in gear size, you go up in RPM at 70mph.

Don't know much about gears, so wasn't sure if there would be a good change that would help with mpg and not really kill pep. Only experience I've had is with my 2 trucks. Both were GM 1500's basically same trucks just a few years apart '03 and '06. The '03 had I think the 3.73 and the '06 with 4.10. There was a little difference in pep in everyday driving, but a noticeable difference in mpg.

Thanks for all the info. Keep it coming. I have a lot more learning to do still.
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post #15 of 22 (permalink) Old 12-27-2016, 07:40 AM
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Re: New '65 Owner with a bunch of questions.

Quote:
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Thanks for all the info. Keep it coming. I have a lot more learning to do still.
Out of curiosity, is this your first classic?

To be fair, you CANNOT compare this to any modern car, your 2006 has 50 years on the Galaxie, there are a million other factors to take into consideration besides the weight of the cars... I have an 05' Expedition that handles like a Miata compared to my Galaxie, that's just the way it is with the technology changes and the increased engineering in the last 50 years.

Without serious work such as a whole chassis swap (which has been done, there's a guy on here doing it with a crown-vic) you will not match the handling. There are things you can do to make it a little better, however it WONT be agile.

As far as brakes go - if you want to stop and stop now I would suggest doing four wheel disc brakes... That's as good as it'll get in these cars. As far as I understand (and I could be wrong) just switching to power brakes from manual doesn't give you any more stopping power at all... All it does is make it so you do not have to push as hard, that's it. If you haven't already, get newer tires with better grip, once you lock the brakes up, its really up to the grip of the tires to do the rest of the work.

I would strongly suggest cleaning it up and replacing all the existing suspension and brake system with new parts, drive it for a while and get a better feel of the car, while it won't be a new car, I think (from what you've said) it will exceed your current expectations of what these old cars are.

Brakes:

-Master Cylinder
-Metal Brake Lines
-Have the drums turned
-Brake Shoes
-Rubber Hoses
-Wheel Cylinders
-Hardware


Suspension:

-Wheel Bearings
-Tie Rods
-Tie Rod Ends
-Upper/lower control arm bushing
-Upper/lower ball joints
-Sway bar bushings
-Steering Stabilizer
-Shock Absorbers
-I'm sure I'm missing a few...

-Zig
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Last edited by Ziggy; 12-27-2016 at 09:01 AM.
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