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Anyone here use the Quick Fuel Black Diamond Carb

8K views 24 replies 8 participants last post by  cody50 
#1 ·
Yep still looking at carbs. Psig had told me of a carb Summit has that is basically a Holley and can't remember what it was called thinking just a summit carb. Looking at the black edelbrocks i ran across these and jumped around reading reviews and forum topics on them and they sound pretty good and just a bit lower priced than the black edelbrock. I'm looking at 600cfm. I am not a carb person and i refuse to put a holley on my car again, once was enough. I borrowed an edelbrock for a week or so and fell in love with it, had more pep than I've ever had on that car in the almost 40 yrs i've owned it. Ruined me! So my biggest problem is not being a carb person and i want something that is as close to plug and play as i can get. Autolite 4100 ease or as close to that as i can get. The edelbrock was that easy but curious about these Quick Fuel carbs. Basically a holley without the name on it but so far what i've read, not as finicky! Any opinions or experience?

At the moment I have a borrowed 4100 from FEandGoingBroke on the car. I could of kept it if I hadn't reminded him I borrowed it!! Darn it! Nawww, I'd return it even if he forgets again, i might need to borrow another part or something one day.


https://www.summitracing.com/parts/qft-bd-1957/overview/
 
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#2 ·
If you don't like a Holley, you won't like a QFT carb, it is nothing but a Holley made by people who used to work for them

If you like the Edelbrock, I'd by that. They are responsive, but down on peak power, but if you like how it ran, that's what I would go with.
 
#3 ·
From what i read it wasn't as apt to backfire as the reg holley and less adjusting to do. Only issue i might have with the Edelbrock is my foot. But other wise it was great. I almost was thinking it was the Ed that had the dead spot but it was the borrowed 4100 as the poor thing sat on a shelf for years and gary and i just swapped out the main accelerator pump and stuck it on the car. Always be forgetful but durn, by the time i'm '65 which isn't that far away, i won't even remember my name!!

Thanks for the input! Just need something that does well, easy to adjust and i can get out of my own way if needed. I'm a putt putt mostly driving in town so peak power isn't an issue really.

Weren't you in VA? I see it says Omaha now. You keep moving around!
 
#5 ·
I am active duty USAF. I was in Las Vegas when we met at Knotts years ago (before you had the quarter hung) sometimes between 2002 and 2005, then VA, then Omaha, then Alabama, now Omaha again...my wife said she is done. Good thing I am approaching retirement!

No carb will cause a backfire, unless it's damaged or severely misadjusted, what I think you are referring to is that a Holley has an enrichment system called a power valve that can be damaged IF it backfires. They have added a check valve that tries to stop it, and it's rare, but Edelbrocks do not have that design.

FWIW, the Edelbrocks run well but don't make as much peak power, but we are talking single digits most of the time. We ran an Edel 600 for years on my dad's 390 and it did great. I like Holleys myself, but whatever you are comfortable with. You may want to consider having your distributor recurved at the same time. Having less mechanical advance, but starting at a higher initial advance and having the mechanical come in a bit quicker really makes a 390 drive nice on the street. Doing that and a fresh Edel or that Slayer, should work well.
 
#4 ·
No carburetor will be any good if you lack basic tuning skills. (info gleaned by your report of Holley's being prone to backfire)
In the case of your Edelbrock, it sounds like you just got lucky by bolting on a carb that happened to be close to your ideal setup.

Didn't want that to come off wrong, but it's been my experience.
I think in your scenario, you should find a friend that can get whatever carb setup for you and there is no reason it shouldn't hold it's tune for a few years.

Good luck
 
#6 ·
Ross, I hope i got that right, you have been moving around for sure! I knew you were AF as were we. I hate to say it but I miss the moving every 4 or 5 yrs. It's a love/hate thing, hated all the preparation for the move but once that was over i was ready to roll. We've been in this house a little over 5 yrs and i'm getting that "ok time to move" feeling. Gets in your blood or it does for some at least, me being one of them! Don't really want to start new but the little voice is saying lets see what it's like somewhere new.

I had a vacuum issue when i had the Holley on there in CA. Tbirdchick and I both bought the same carbs from the same place. She never could get hers adjusted right, mine caught fire and my starter crapped out at the same time and i said that was enough for me. With the 4100 and same vacuum issue it didn't care and didn't backfire. In the end recently, the guy who hung the quarter started messing with my carb and we found that i have always had a vacuum leak, well, not always but after changing spacers. The two rear screw heads on the bottom of the accelerator pump on the 4100 prevented the carb from sitting all the way down flat. So we ground off the front edge of the spacer and all was good. The carb itself still had issues and i put a kit in it and still probs so tried the edle. Thinking back on the 4100 and the secondaries, it has never kicked in since the day i put it on there, even before the vacuum leak. Might be something they did or didn't do when reconditioning it as it was an autozone special. But it lasted me 10+ yrs so can't complain even though it should of been longer and probably could be. I just got spoiled with that other carb. :) When i finally get a new one i will go to someone that hopefully knows what they are doing as i sure don't! Cliff is too busy working, we (I and the other guy that worked on the quarter) never hear from him and he never replies to texts. He's a pile driver i think it's called, pounds holes for high-rises and i know he does come home late so maybe tired. Maybe summer we will see him again! Til then Pete and I stay in touch, usually just a Hi but we know the other is alive still at least. :)

Hope you enjoy your retirement when it gets here! We retired in 2010..shoot that means we've been in the house for almost 7 yrs. No wonder i think it's moving time! ;)
 
#7 ·
Deb, the carb I was suggesting is the 600 CFM Summit carb, and is effectively an Autolite 4100/4010 that uses more common Holley jets, power valve, accel pump parts, etc. Many have run it, and it is gaining quite a good reputation for cost, reliability, economy and performance. Just a suggestion. Having said that, they released a new 500 CFM version 5 months ago that I feel would actually be a better fit for your engine and driving style.

David
 
#10 ·
Psig, I was trying to remember what carb it was from Summit that you mentioned in yakima, i could only remember it was like a holley but also a 4100. Shoot maybe you couldn't remember then either. :) I'll look at it.

Turbo, that's what i've been reading in reviews of the quick fuel carb. Tunability and fairly easy set up and not the issues the holleys have or as many. Most all of the reviews i've read it's almost as easy as the 4100 for initial set up. I am not a carb person and the 4100 i could put on, adjust air/fuel and go. But now I had a taste of a different carb and although i used to say you can't go wrong with a 4100 and many have used them for occasional drag racing, i find my self wanting something new. But then that 4100 had issues from day one that i didn't realize which kinda shows the kind of carb person i am!

I'll have to read some reviews on the Summit carb now also. I liked that pep and get up and go i'd never had ever in the shotrod. It was quite a shock to have the tires break loose while moving when i would have to power brake to get that before. Which i might add, i hadn't done since i was a teenager with it. I got slow. But can think of many times I wish I had that to get out of my own way in some instances on the freeways etc.

How plug n play are they in your opinion turbo since it sounds like you have had more than one.

Oh and psig, i agree, for my driving even a 500cfm would work. I'm becoming a little old lady and not the one from Pasadena! lol
 
#11 ·
What has been done to your engine, gearing, tire dia ,goals ?

The Quick Fuel carbs can be quite bolt on. How bolt on it can depend on engine build and series of carb selected.
IE a street series on a really hot engine opposite a fairly stock engine with a performance series.

A rather mild build and economy / performance oriented would select one of these

https://www.quickfueltechnology.com/carburetors/street/slayer-series/ a 600 in this series
I just installed a 750 version of this series on a 77 Tbird with a 351W orig engine its bit large but works well whoever purchases the car might want t do some other mods IE cam heads gearing

https://www.quickfueltechnology.com/carburetors/street/hr-series/hr-series-carburetor-680cfm-vs.html
maybe a 680 in this series.

Both these series I believe have the Ford kick down linkage ability street series for sure Street HR series some of the bigger ones maybe not.

I also recomend getting your hands on a Holley book by HP and read up on how to tune a holley style carb.
 
#12 ·
Basically stock 390, rv cam, bored 30 over. 600 or as psig mentioned even a 500 would work for my putt putt style of driving. I rarely get on the freeway even. When i do it's a minimum of 4-5 hour drive once or twice a year.

I think since I have had the edelbrock on there and know it was a simple swap and worked well i would be better off sticking to that. I don't know that the summit carb comes in black and if not then I won't bother looking into those even. Not that it makes any sense but I have my mind set on a black carb.

If the FiTech throttle body set up wasn't so high I'd go that route. In the future i believe the prices will go down on those when more companies are producing them. just like anything else out there. A friend has one on his '64 gm car and seems to be a fairly easy swap that even i could do.

Thank you for the input and suggestions turbo!
 
#13 ·
One comment on the Edelbrock. Although your engine may not need more than 500 cfm the way you drive it. The 500 Edelbrock has some very odd casting and flat shapes in the venturi and air horn. It really makes a crappy flowing carb. If you are going to go Edelbrock, which I think is a great match, go with the 600. Likely easier to find, and a much better design than the 500.
 
#15 ·
Manual choke setup costs $20..... so certainly not a deal breaker.
I've worked on three Slayers on other people's engines. Very impressed. All the best parts of the most sophisticated carburetors with a very low price tag. I think my QF SS735 cost $200 more with no appreciable benefit.
If I had to buy a carburetor tomorrow for a mild street, daily driver, or a street/strip car, it would be a Slayer.
 
#16 ·
Just for some real numbers, your 390, if it can actually make a true 330 hp, would require 449.3 CFM to make that 330 hp. That is using a conservative 0.50 BSFC on a standard day, and your cam limiting you to about 4700 rpm on a good day. Chances are that it is actually lower, but 449.3 CFM would certainly cover it.

So, while I am suggesting the 500 CFM versions, it's not because it would "run OK" with that or because you're a light-foot, but you would in-fact see better engine response and greater low-end torque with the velocity through that smaller carb. It would also have enough excess flow to support all the power that mill could make if you ever needed it. Win-win. I didn't suggest it because I think it's cute or sparkly. ;) There are reasons certain CFMs are used for certain purposes, and not that it's a good guess, or more is better. Sure, you could drive it with a larger carb, but that doesn't mean it will perform and drive better for your application. With long-used and proven calculations and planning tools the indication is more likely not.

David

PS: Krylon and a couple others make good fuel-proof satin black. :cool:
 
#17 · (Edited)
I am not arguing cfm requirements, although later in this post, I do argue carb sizing using maximum calculated cfm requirements a bit. What I am saying the 500 Edelbrock is a weak 500. Look down inside one from the choke, it's an airflow mess, the 600 Edelbrock is different and will not have any negative effect on that engine.

This is not the standard "who picks the right size carb" argument, that Edel 500 is a lose-lose because it is very turbulent and hard to keep a stable mixture through the curve and can be more expensive. So, again, I am not pushing for a bigger carb for her car, the way she drives it, just pushing back on an Edel 500 only.

However, too big of a carb hurts nobody as long as the boosters have an adequate signal to come on line when needed . A carb venturi is not a intake port or plenum, the velocity in each venturi only matters as it relates to the booster and the signal it "feels" in the circuit. Thats why some BIG carbs with annual boosters are very tunable at low rpm and at the same time will go pig rich at high rpm. Also why some small carbs need a bunch of enrichment to get on the mains (Street Avenger series and early HP Holleys). As long the mains can come on line with good atomized fuel when they need to, which is a function of booster, bleed, and emulsion design along with venturi size and shape, a carb "too big" for the application runs very well. Remember a clean venturi could flow more but have better velocity and signal to the booster just because it is more efficient, that's what I am saying is happening with the 600 vs the 500 Edel.

I am very leery of comparing that to an intake port though, it is very different. Port cross section, length, plenum volume, all very significant on torque and HP curve, but working back from the valve, once those pulses are minimized in the plenum, what you are describing doesn't apply to the carb. The key job for a carb is just to manage a/f during transition from circuit to circuit and account for load with some enrichment circuit, it is not an extension of the intake port, unless it's an individual runner manifold

Now, I agree that the engine will only pull the air it can mechanically pull, excluding things like overlap, negative exhaust pulses, intake resonance benefits, etc, and her stock FE it's never going to need more than 450 cfm or so. However, for the crowd, a set of properly sized headers, a tighter LSA, and good clean intake port, that same cid and RPM range can pull harder on a carb, (none of which is applicable on her stock 390) so I am a bit leery of going small on engines that are optimized for an RPM range, even if that RPM is low, and without a dyno sheet, even a mild FE can be wanting more. I know you addressed it with BFSC, but without testing the engine, that CFM calculation is immediately based on an assumption (even though I agree that the number is likely right)

However, 600 cfm is not big for a 390, Ford used a 600 Holley on 390GTs, and they used a horrible intake manifold and exhaust manifold design that negated a bit more cam, of course the 4100s and 4300s were sized small on the rest of them, but my point is just that the range from 450-600 is all very usable in a lo-po 390 as demonstrated in countless Edel 600s and 1850 Holleys being used every day.
 
#18 ·
Let me add this article too, I apologize from getting too far from the original question in advance, but despite some goofy terms written in this article, it does have some good points about booster design and running a big carb.

Carburetor Boosters - Tech, Explanation - Hot Rod Network

FWIW, my 445 4x4 truck, 6000 RPM max, even over -estimated at 90% VE, calculates at 647 cfm. I run a 1000 HP series vac sec with double downleg boosters and shaved throttle shafts on a BG base plate. Acceleration is like a light switch, uses the smallest accel pump cam and a .028 squirter and burns the pipes clean around town. It gained power everywhere over the 3310 750 vac sec and has a cleaner light throttle roll on. Although a bigger carb, the boosters and entry airflow is so much cleaner, that it just works better. Will it open the secondaries completely? Calculators say it shouldn't, but it sure pulls the secondaries open hard. Apples to oranges compared to the stock 390, but just goes to show you that calculators are a tool, not a rule.
 
#19 ·
I will just add that my 390 isn't totally stock but isn't a hi-po engine by no means either. It's bored .030 over and has a mid size rv cam. I don't know anything about the cam other than it's what my bro inlaw had put in when it was rebuilt. Below is just info i got from the part number in the paper work. It's all greek to me. I also have the stock intake so no advancement there in performance, just weight. :) Also being an automatic it isn't quite the same compared to the 4x4 it was built for with 4spd. But not complaining, it gets better mileage than the truck did with a 2V on it. Also my driving is a lot different than his was!

Mfg. Ford
Engine 390, 427, 428
Lifter Type HYD
Cam Lift Int. .295
Cam Lift Exh. .310
Valve Lift Int. .510
Valve Lift Exh. .536
Duration @ .050 Lift 214/224
Duration @ .006 Lift 292/302
Lobe C/L 112
Overlap 61
Cam Series Pro-3000
Speed Pro #CS1025R
2000-4500 RPM


PRO 3000
210° - 225° duration at .050"
Fair idle with some lope. Excellent mid-range torque for every day street performance, mild bracket racing, RV and light towing. A slightly modified engine is suggested with a performance intake manifold, 4 barrel carburetor and headers. Gears 3.70:1 or lower recommended. Power range 2000 - 4800 RPM. Cruise/torque range 2400 - 3200. Compression ration 10.3:1 or less. Computer compatible in larger engines with cams of 220 duration or less. Mild porting can be beneficial with these cams. Mild stall speed converter suggested with automatics.

Psig: Will keep that in mind on the black paint. Hmmm, they got green too? ;)

The borrowed carb was a 600 and did well, I most likely will go with what i had on there for a couple weeks.
 
#21 ·
Certainly not crazy, but healthy. Have you by chance been in the distributor? A recurve could make a hell of a difference in drivability and mileage with that combo
 
#22 ·
No I have never done anything with the distributor. I bought a new one but now can't figure out where i put it! It's another points distributor, I'm sure the one on there has be pretty tired, it's one from my first engine swap and i just kept swapping it into the next swapped engine. The first being 1978. Took me adding an electric fan and doing parades and cruises that took 45 mins to go 18 blocks to finally swap out the generator. I still like my points. That might be something i can do when i figure out where i put the new one.

The guy that did the quarter panel spent a lot of time messing around with 3 different carbs and then swiped another kids edel(he was rebuilding his engine so wasn't needing it yet) to try out and got it to idle smooth enough that the only unsmooth part was from the cam. I don't think it's ever in the entire time i've had the car, idled that smooth! It was amazing. When i find the dist i'll have to get with someone that knows what they are doing and see what that does. If a carb can make that much difference I can't imagine what a new dist setup right would do in addition.
 
#24 ·
So get the carb on and get it driving the way you like it, then consider having the distributor recurved. If and when you are ready, let us know, you'll likely notice a serious improvement in response and potentially fuel mileage. If you have a second distributor, I think you can easily have it done for under 100 bucks, likely closer to 75, tuned exactly for your combo
 
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#25 ·
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/qft-sl-600-vs

At $333, these budget QuickFuels are pretty hard to ignore for a carb upgrade.

We put a 950cfm version on a 460SCJ and it ran great out of the box. Good cold start idle, solid throttle response and pulls very well on WOT. I haven't tried a smaller vacuum secondary, but I was impressed.

I do really like the design and function of the 4100 and would likely only remove it for a FITech. Currently putting one on a cobra kit. There are just so many benefits, especially with the ignition control models.
 
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