Homebuilt Budget Twin Turbo - Page 5 - Ford Muscle Forums : Ford Muscle Cars Tech Forum
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post #61 of 72 (permalink) Old 04-02-2011, 01:37 AM
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Re: Homebuilt Budget Twin Turbo

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Originally Posted by rdean9215 View Post
... I am only looking to run 7 to 10 psi since this will mostly be street driven what would you recommend.
I can't say without knowing much more about your engine build, fueling system, compression, cam timing, fuel grade, ignition control, etc. Turbo sizing is a match between all these factors and your goals. A dyno sheet and full description would be best. A full listing of components to determine general engine traits is minimal. If you have not built yet, it is always suggested you plan the build starting with specific goals and based mostly on the fuel you plan to use.
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Originally Posted by rdean9215 View Post
Also if I use meth inject with this lower boost would you recommend a intercooler or not?
Charge cooling is recommended above 5-6 psig as the general break-point. Meth injection? I assume you mean water injection and not using methanol for your primary fuel. Water injection is a different animal that retards and modifies charge burn for greater power by allowing either more proper ignition timing, or more boost, or both. Many add alcohol (usually ethanol) to the water and don't really know why, but I sure hear a lot of fascinating theories. LOL The intercooling/WI effects seem similar and overlap. Charge cooling is first choice for increased charge density, and adding WI due to poor fuel, ignition control, or other factors can also help. Both allow more power with detonation suppression, but for different reasons.

Intercoolers are a one-time investment, nearly maintenance-free, and very reliable. WI is more complicated, has ongoing costs and maintenance, and has a potential for greater failure rates with costly consequences. My current build uses both, but I understand the failure risks, so I have my EFI system detect if there is low water or a WI failure and will cut boost to protect the engine.

David

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post #62 of 72 (permalink) Old 04-04-2011, 08:06 AM
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Re: Homebuilt Budget Twin Turbo

[SIZE=2]David here is the details of my engine and trany. Also I believe I sent you my dyno sheet to convert and upload to one of my prior post. I will see if I can find it and post it here. Looking to get close to 500+ HP & TQ. Compression is around 10.1 I think. Looking use meth and water injection to help out with my compression ratio by raising the 93 gas to 110+
Borg Warner 4 speed
DSS lv 10 302 roller block stroked to 347
Barry Grant 750 carb ended up with 78 prim jets and 85 sec jets
Hawk Power racing heads 195cc scorpion 1.6 roller rockers
Erson Cam part number E212996 intake .340 lift 222 degress, exhaust .355 lift 234 degrees. Cam card shows Grind RH 290/340 and RH296/355.
Probe forged pistons 12347-030.
Victor Jr. Intake and main girdle. Thanks for your help
[/SIZE]
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post #63 of 72 (permalink) Old 04-23-2011, 01:13 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Homebuilt Budget Twin Turbo

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Originally Posted by puttster View Post
When does it start spooling?
Now that the blow-thru is a little more spot-on it spools very quick. On the transbrake it starts spooling at about 2300 or so and I get full boost just over 3000 rpm.

6.29 @ 112 MPH 1.48 60'. Home-fabbed twin turbo 302 at 3242 lbs. Fastest ugly Mustang on FM!
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post #64 of 72 (permalink) Old 04-23-2011, 01:31 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Homebuilt Budget Twin Turbo

I really need to stay on top of my updates. In late September last year the car ran its best pass of 6.29 at 112 MPH. This was with just under 10 pounds of boost with the car's race weight of 3242# with driver. I ran into 2 big problems with the setup that hindered my progress, #1 was that anything over 7 pounds of boost will spin the tires to the 330' mark and sometimes further, #2 was my Redneck 9.5" converter wont hold the torque.
The converter worked fine at 7 psi and below but is waaay too loose beyond that. I pull 2nd gear at about 40' and pull high gear at about 200' then Im all out of rpm by about 400' and the motor pings the 6400 rpm rev-limiter till the finish line. It was very frustrating because it was late September-October and I knew if I sent my converter back to get it tightened up that it wouldnt be back in time to finish the season, so I did the best I could with it. As soon as I started pinging the limiter at about 400' I could literally feel my back come out of the seat cause the car wasnt pulling hard anymore.

6.29 @ 112 MPH 1.48 60'. Home-fabbed twin turbo 302 at 3242 lbs. Fastest ugly Mustang on FM!
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post #65 of 72 (permalink) Old 04-23-2011, 01:37 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Homebuilt Budget Twin Turbo

My changes for this year include a little bit of weight reduction and a new converter built for the car by PTC. Im also welding in an anti-roll bar and just finished doing a coilover conversion up front with 14''x130# springs with Lakewood 90/10s. Im looking forward to getting back out to the track in May with the new changes. With the new converter and getting more appropriate low 1.30s 60' the car should go 5.90s. Possibly faster with more boost but Im pushing my luck as it is with this stock block, cast crank combo.

6.29 @ 112 MPH 1.48 60'. Home-fabbed twin turbo 302 at 3242 lbs. Fastest ugly Mustang on FM!
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post #66 of 72 (permalink) Old 04-23-2011, 01:25 PM
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Re: Homebuilt Budget Twin Turbo

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Originally Posted by rdean9215 View Post
David here is the details of my engine and trany. Also I believe I sent you my dyno sheet to convert and upload to one of my prior post. I will see if I can find it and post it here. Looking to get close to 500+ HP & TQ. Compression is around 10.1 I think. Looking use meth and water injection to help out with my compression ratio by raising the 93 gas to 110+. . .
I apologize as I didn't see that you posted a response. Running the numbers and making some assumptions, you'll need a T76-class turbo to make 60+ pound-per-minute flow on that basic engine for your goals. The turbo needs to be big as you only need about 8 psig to make your power goals with room to spare, and your goal is large flow at that relatively low pressure. Note that you have a bad combination of 10:1 compression and pump gas. The effective compression rises to well over 15:1 under mild boost. The fuel is your limiting factor and you will lose a large amount of power compensating for it.

So, as you can see in the screen shots below, an engine using the correct fuel can make your power goals with 8 psig, intercooling (charge heat will increase almost 150°F without it), and no water or W/Alcohol injection. However, if you insist on using pump gas, you'll need water to avoid det. Even at that, you will still need some inefficient ignition retard to compensate, So, the net effect is that the power you would see in the second pic (with 600cc WA injection) will only be as high as the first one, as the additional power capability is simply being used to fight the low anti-knock level of the pump gas.

So, you can see, you are fighting to make-up for using pump gas to the detriment of overall power - but it can be done. If you instead used race gas or E85, then you could easily go beyond the limits of your block strength. If you want to use twin turbo's, simply divide your required flow by two (about 30 lb/min each) to pick your pieces. Hope that helps.

David

rdean 347, 10:1, intercooled, race or E85 fuel:


rdean 347, 10:1, intercooled, race or E85 fuel, 600cc water/alcohol:


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post #67 of 72 (permalink) Old 09-23-2015, 01:38 PM
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Re: Homebuilt Budget Twin Turbo

Hey, you seem quite the expert on turbo builds, any chance that I get advice or even just more knowledge on how to do it.

I have a 2007 v6 mustang that needs to be turboed... (is that a word?) anyway, a 4.0 litre engine with 210 horses is embarrassing at best... I have purchased new stainless steel headers and sent them to a shop to add a t4 turbo/wastegate mount on the left header... so far this is all I am doing to get the project started...

(Please do not say to get a GT... I am interested in making a sleeper not being another Ford statistic)

Space is an issue with my engine bay therefore I may have to relocate the battery... I am looking into putting it in the trunk with 2 gauge wire and possibly in a box (maybe NHRA compliant)

Are there any pictures or videos that you can make or have already made on how to turbo in detail... if yes would you teach me how to do this... I am mechanically inclined.

The trick is this is my daily driver... whatever I do has to be done on the week end and it has to work for the Monday... challenge anyone>?
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post #68 of 72 (permalink) Old 10-29-2015, 06:45 AM
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Re: Homebuilt Budget Twin Turbo

I wish the pictures on the thread would show up or is it just me?

Yep, I did IT.
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post #69 of 72 (permalink) Old 10-29-2015, 03:34 PM
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Exclamation Re: Homebuilt Budget Twin Turbo

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I wish the pictures on the thread would show up or is it just me?
That's a real bummer. Apparently, the change in the forum programming recently killed a lot of photo links. However, I'll bet they are still somewhere and need to be linked. Stuff like this destroys a site's usefulness, and needs attention.

I would ask anyone who sees stuff like this (missing photos or dead links, etc.) to tell the Admin's, and hopefully they will fix it, or prevent more of it. Go to the Forum Bug Reports and Account Issues section of the forums, and paste a link to this (or whatever) thread. We have lost thousands of photos and valuable posts over the years with each "little" change. We can try to stop it, but they have to be told about it. Thanks!

David

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post #70 of 72 (permalink) Old 10-29-2015, 03:41 PM
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Re: Homebuilt Budget Twin Turbo

I have contacted james302, I hope to restore images soon. I have alot of images backed up, unfortunately, this thread I don't have them. We'll see what James can do to help.
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post #71 of 72 (permalink) Old 06-03-2016, 11:23 AM
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Re: Homebuilt Budget Twin Turbo

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Originally Posted by FATNFAST View Post
I have contacted james302, I hope to restore images soon. I have alot of images backed up, unfortunately, this thread I don't have them. We'll see what James can do to help.
Any headway with any of the OP's build photos?

David

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post #72 of 72 (permalink) Old 06-03-2016, 07:11 PM
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Re: Homebuilt Budget Twin Turbo

Have heard anything. Sorry.

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