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Old 09-16-2003, 12:50 AM   #1 (permalink)
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351 / 408W stroker kit

Does any one have any information about a 351 / 408W stroker kit. Has any one used it and does anyone know how reliable the kit is.
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Old 09-16-2003, 01:50 AM   #2 (permalink)
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351 / 408W stroker kit

This is the kit I'm using in the new engine.
SKF4086
http://www.flatlanderracing.com/stroker351w408.html

As far as reliability I personnaly think it would be the max stroke I would use in a stock block.

I know drag79stang uses a 418 stroker kit that I believe is comprised of eagle parts...perhaps he could supply a little more imput towards reliability.

Good Luck and Have Fun!!
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Old 09-16-2003, 08:53 AM   #3 (permalink)
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351 / 408W stroker kit

Reliability?..........Hell, I've been beating the living **** out of this setup for 3 years now, and absolutely NO problems/concerns whatsoever.
My kit was Eagle # 14127. Basically .030" over 351w block, then 'their' kit.
I upgraded last winter and replaced the SRP pistons with custom Ross pistons, (for more compression).
But again, absoutely NO problems whatsoever.

I did actually meet a guy that was running an almost identical setup as mine this summer. Only diff is he's running a HUGE roller cam in it, and a dominator for a carb. (compared to my tiny Biggs prepped 950 HP).....

He also has no engine concerns/problems whatsoever, and he also beats the bejheesus out of his setup. (it's a stick besides).

(mine's quicker tho).........
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Old 09-18-2003, 09:53 AM   #4 (permalink)
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351 / 408W stroker kit

I have one from probe and love it the 408 is an excelent set up.I take it to willowsprings race way (2.5 mile road course)that is pure torture on any motor and it does great. mine mildly built makes 387 hp and 440 ftlbstq at the tires. Chris
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Old 09-18-2003, 06:17 PM   #5 (permalink)
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351 / 408W stroker kit

I'm using a eagle crank/rods and JE pistons for my 408. I haven't really ran it that much but I can say that the quality of the parts were spot on. I'm sure the eagle parts will last a lot longer the my block can handle it. I put down 570 RWHP with a little n2o.
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Old 09-18-2003, 09:08 PM   #6 (permalink)
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351 / 408W stroker kit

I am looking at eagle kit 14125 I think. It has SRP flat tops, forged crank, h beam rods and with those pistons it makes almost 13 to 1. How much did you go above that with the Ross pistons?
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Old 09-18-2003, 09:20 PM   #7 (permalink)
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351 / 408W stroker kit

The engine first had some used up old dart senior (cast), heads on it with the first 418 build. AT that time, with the srp's, it had around 12 or so to 1 compression ratio. When we went with the AFR 205's, it dropped (combustion chamber size was bigger), plus we had to cut the hell out of the pistons for p to v clearance. Enough that there were actual holes in the valve reliefs on the intake valve sides. The compression ratio with that was closer to 11 to 1.
With the Ross pistons, (said right on the box, MAX domes)., it is now (with nothing done to heads), 14.13 to 1 compression ratio.
Were wishing for at least 15 to 1, but had to cut a helluva lot off those pistons for clearance too.....

It made 615 hp, so I can't bitch, but I was hoping THAT would be alot more too...............doh'
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Old 09-19-2003, 09:36 AM   #8 (permalink)
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351 / 408W stroker kit

After I posted that message, I looked up both kits and they appear to have identical compression ratios. The difference in the two kits is a .050 longer rod in the 14125 vs the 14127. I don't know if there will be a measurable difference overall in torque/horsepower between the two. The fractional difference in rod speed vs. weight gain on the rotating mass is beyond my ability to figure. I just hope that I am not gaining unforeseen clearancing issues with the oil pump/pickup/windage tray/etc by going with the longer rod kit. My mistake was thinking that you had the same 58CC heads that I do.

Let me throw something else at you on the technical side. With 58CC heads, the kit should make about 12.8:1 assuming it's 0 decked. When I build this motor, if I don't deck the block to 0, the piston should be about .020 down the hole. I am using a 94 roller block with 9.5 deck height. Ratings for compression on those kits I was told were based on 9.48 deck height.

If you were going to try to modestly adjust the compression ratio down for street driving, would the motor (overall performance) see the difference in the extra CCs being below the head gasket from not 0 decking or above if you were to change to a head with a bigger combustion chamber? I realize that changing the head is not a modest adjustment, but for arguments sake, go with me on this one.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: 63SportsCoupe on 9/19/03 9:59pm ]</font>
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Old 09-21-2003, 09:41 PM   #9 (permalink)
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351 / 408W stroker kit

Alot of things come into 'thought range', when you're lowering compression, by any means.
You need less cam. The flame travel is different, (again, depending on which way you lower compression.

I've always zero decked pistons, and tried/attempted to get every last spec of compression ratio out of any engine I"ve put together. Streetability has NEVER been one of my concerns, (but enough about me).

Anytime you lower compression, you lose HP/TQ. But, again, depending on how MUCH you lose would be the deciding factor. Again, getting back to HOW you lower the compression here is the gig.

It's kind of a strange question, (not flaming you by any means), but going backwards to how I think.

In either case, good luck on your engine build.

(love those AFR heads if you're still in the head purchasing gig)......
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Old 09-21-2003, 10:27 PM   #10 (permalink)
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351 / 408W stroker kit

You should try to match you CR to the cam. If you have a 17-1 motor you need a 320 @ .050 cam. If you have 7-1 you need a 190 @ .50 duration cam.

Too high compression with low duration will detonate all the time no matter what and be a dog.

Too low compression with a big cam will be a dog untill redline.

What are you going to use this motor for?

Some people might disagree but what the hay....

A 15-1 motor with a small 240 duration cam will fight itself at high rpms and wont make as much power as it could if the compression was a lower 12-1
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Old 09-22-2003, 05:01 PM   #11 (permalink)
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351 / 408W stroker kit

Tell me what you think the optimum compression ratio is for this cam. This may be too much info., but here it is.

Comp Cam Hyd. Roller.

Part #35-522-8
Engine Ford 351 Windsor
Eagle Motorsports
Grind #FW XE282HR-12

Gross Valve Lift Int. 565.
Gross Valve Lift Exh. 574.

Duration @ .006 Tappet Lift Intake 282.
Duration @ .006 Tappet Lift Exhaust 290.

Valve timing Open @ .006 Int. 29 BTDC
Valve timing Open @ .006 Exh. 77 BBDC

Valve timing Close @ .006 Int. 73 ABDC
Valve timing Close @ .006 Exh. 33 ATDC

These specs are for cam installed at 108 intake centerline

Duration @.050 Intake 232, Exhaust 240
Lobe Lift intake .3540
Lobe Lift exhaust .3600
Lobe separation 112
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Old 09-22-2003, 05:50 PM   #12 (permalink)
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351 / 408W stroker kit

I think 10-1 is right for that cam in a 351w maybe less in a 408 stroker since it will have greater cylinder filling in a larger motor.

I also think there is a big problem with alot of these agressive street roller cam motors today, they suck in more air at low lifts than hyd cams ever did. Thats great right? Well, that makes for detonation problems on compression ratios that use to work well with big hyd cams. So everybody builds an 11 or 12-1 motor "just like in the old days" to make power......and ping ping ping it's a dog. The factory EFI cars will pull timing so these kids in there mustangs are non the wiser, but some of us learn you dont need that much compression with these agressive street rollers. The cylinder filling is there already.

I also hang out at the LS1.com websight, and let me tell ya, ther are plenty of people pushing over 400rwhp with cams no bigger than 224 duration and 9-1
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Old 09-23-2003, 09:30 PM   #13 (permalink)
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351 / 408W stroker kit

Great information and a thousand kudos to youdos. I would have fallen into the old school thinking of "pump it up with compression" trap with this milder cam. I called Comp and they confirmed what you said.

They did indicate that I could use that same general specs. in a custom ground cam with 109 lobe separation and be ok with the 12+ compression ratio. I had them email the valve timing #s so I can imput in computer program figure out if the gain will be worth the extra 300 bucks vs. using the cam I listed above and just drop back to about a 10.4:1 stroker kit.

I don't think those computer horsepower and torque programs take this particular problem into consideration when they calculate performance!
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Old 09-24-2003, 12:59 AM   #14 (permalink)
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351 / 408W stroker kit

I agree... those dyno programs are good, but these street roller cams these days with their extreme ramp rates with low advertised duration are just pushing the limits on air ingestion.

Most hyd cams that have a 240 duration have like 310-320 advertised, but an agressive street roller has only 285-290 advertised so it doesnt bleed off as much pressure like the hyd cams, so you need less static compression.

On a full boogy solid roller race with 270-280 duration @ .050, yes you want 15-1

I'm running 12.8 on my solid roller, it has a 250 duration at .050 and a 110 lobe "nitrous cam" so it doesn't bleed of much pressure, but I use 110 gas.
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