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Old 11-24-2012, 08:30 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Carburetor to electronic fuel injection conversion

Hello, I am looking to make improvements to my 1967 Mustang. My main focus is to improve gas efficiency and improve performance. How much am I looking to spend if I converted my carburetor to electric fuel injection? Plus, any recommendations would be appreciated...thanks


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Old 11-24-2012, 10:23 AM   #2 (permalink)
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Re: Carburetor to electronic fuel injection conversion

EFI is doable for somewhere around $500 and up for a custom tunable system. That means something that would not just run OK, but that can be tweaked to maximize performance and mileage. Note there are many variables that would dictate the final cost; not the least of which is your willingness to learn and do more of the setup yourself.

There are two common routes (besides expensive packaged kits). You could either use a hacked complete factory system (free to a couple hundred maybe) and a couple hundred in software to tune it. Or, you can use an aftermarket ECM ($200-300) and whatever you want for the peripheral parts and wiring (for better performance and/or lower cost), and free or cheap tuning software. Both choices require gaining knowledge and fabrication skills. The factory system will require more knowledge and research with less fab, and the custom system has the potential to perform better in all regards, but may need better fab skills depending on your choices. Remember, these are general statements.

So, the question becomes - How willing are you to learn what EFI is and do more or less of the work yourself? If you want to learn all about it and handle fabrication and fitting on your own - cheap. If you're not willing, that's what $2000+ kits are for, that suit folks that don't want to know or figure stuff out - they just want to bolt-on and go. Where do you fall in this picture?

David
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Old 11-24-2012, 12:02 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Great advice! thanks David!

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Old 11-24-2012, 12:57 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Re: Carburetor to electronic fuel injection conversion

But if you do install a $2000 kit, post your experience. Inquiring minds may want to know!
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Old 11-24-2012, 02:35 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Oh, for sure. Although, I think I'm convinced with staying with my carburetor.


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Old 11-24-2012, 04:30 PM   #6 (permalink)
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I'm doing a Fast efi on my latest 67 mustang fastback project and will have the engine running on a stand soon. These can be had for about $1800.
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Old 11-24-2012, 04:30 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Re: Carburetor to electronic fuel injection conversion

That's fine, and is the best choice for many folks. Be aware however, that if you are pursuing better performance or mileage than average, that your tuning must be better than average. As odd as it may sound, it is much easier to tune (and learn to tune) an EFI system than a carb. This is because the theory of tuning is identical on a given engine for any fuel and ignition system, but how it's accomplished is different. While installation is more involved than bolting a carb on, the up-side is that EFI is far easier to tune and 'tweak' than a carb, and easier to maintain at that better tune.

I think the most important difference to remember in choosing and designing carb or EFI system is what they do - not how. To tune a carb, you must understand how and why the carb does what it does, and when it does it. With EFI you really don't care what goes on in the box. All you care about is what it does when you click this button or that one. The thing that scares most folks - what goes on in the magic box - really doesn't matter.

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Old 11-26-2012, 08:35 AM   #8 (permalink)
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Re: Carburetor to electronic fuel injection conversion

I have done about 4 this past year and all of them i used all stock parts...Got the wiring harness off e-bay for 300 bucks and it is a 3 wire hook up. You will need a return line to the tank also..in line fuel pump and the stock parts ..pretty simple. If you are not going to add a bunch of hp no need for any tuning stock will be fine.
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Old 11-26-2012, 11:59 AM   #9 (permalink)
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Re: Carburetor to electronic fuel injection conversion

I have done both carbs and EFI even have a realy good understanding of what goes on inside the ECM. The only real differance between the two is the ECMs control of the ignition timing. Using electronic ignition controls that are programable and those that go distributerless with multi coil packs make carb set ups about even with EFI.
Best way to go EFI is either factory with a few minor tweeks or best is to go with aftermarket that uses a wide band oxy sensor.

I have still done best fuel economy with a carb 35 city 45 high way.
Best do far with SEFI 32.9. The EFI version had an OD the carb didnt.
That is after 40 some years of engine tuning and building.

Car I am driving right now got 20 MPG hIGHWAY same engine with carbs gets 24.
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Old 11-26-2012, 04:33 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Re: Carburetor to electronic fuel injection conversion

Quote:
Originally Posted by turbo2256b View Post
The only real differance between the two is the ECMs control of the ignition timing.
Not true at all. While the ECM can also control ignition far more accurately and in better ways than a mechanical distributor, and do it in harmony with the fuel - it's how it can control fuel in ways a carb simply can't that sets it apart.
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Originally Posted by turbo2256b View Post
Best way to go EFI is either factory with a few minor tweeks or best is to go with aftermarket that uses a wide band oxy sensor.
Agreed, although a bit more than minor tweaks, especially if the system was tuned at 14.7:1 for catalytic converters. 14.7 is neither powerful nor fuel efficient and is only to make the cats work right. In either case, a WBO2 sensor will yield the greatest gains in both power and MPG. Yes, factory ECMs can be programmed to add WBO2, or the WBO2 controller is programmed to output to the narrowband ECM input in a way that is more accurate for the factory ECM to use.
Quote:
Originally Posted by turbo2256b View Post
Car I am driving right now got 20 MPG hIGHWAY same engine with carbs gets 24.
I call BS - or it's a crappy mismatched setup like Victor race EFI manifold on a street engine - or it's a non-programmable EFI - or you need to let me tune that thing for you.

I'm not trying to start a war here, but I have never seen a carb setup turn both the same HP and the same MPG as tuned EFI. You're the first. I've seen a few come close. Yes, they can be mis-tuned with the wrong settings (such as an overly sensitive accel enrichment, squirting extra fuel sporadically), but then that's another case of mis-tuning. Or, like above, mismatched parts like a hot 347 with a stock 5.0L HO intake setup choking it. But apples to apples - no.

David
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Old 11-26-2012, 10:20 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Re: Carburetor to electronic fuel injection conversion

The one set up was a very well matched Victor EFI using a Cobra Mustang ECM with a programable tuner. The other a extremly modified Blue Thunder dual quad intake. The big limiting factor between them is the dual quad set up has much higher air speed at most throttle positions. If I could afford something like a Hilborn with the indivual TBs things might be a bit more even. On the other hand there are things that havent been tuned quite as well on the carb set up yet as the EFI was.

Another issue with the Factory ECM was its limits with RPMs due to the 16 bit processor. Which hurt my engines capability. Now there are other issues with the strength of the drive train and need stronger lifters before finding peak power output.
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Old 11-26-2012, 10:36 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Re: Carburetor to electronic fuel injection conversion

Don't worry about a 16-bit processor holding you back. The $200 MS-I ECM kit (8-bit) has gone to 11,000 rpms in my testing, and the MS-II (16 bit) to 15,000 for others, while having to 'think' about far more performance features than the factory EEC ever dreamed of.

David
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Old 11-26-2012, 11:19 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Re: Carburetor to electronic fuel injection conversion

Other things limited me besides just the upgrade of an ECM and complete fuel supply system. A stronger rear, lifters, trany, suspension, upkeep etc vs the carbs and intake sitting on the shelf. EFI improvements figured about 4k ... better spent on other things. Ditching the EFI also saved me a few lbs sitting on the front axle.
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