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Old 02-16-2013, 03:16 PM   #31 (permalink)
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Re: efi swap safety solutions?

Quote:
Originally Posted by puttster View Post
EFI kits say the HP pump should be below the tank, but maybe they mean below the big tank, not the surge?
HP pumps can not draw fuel well compared to most LP pumps, and they need fuel for lubrication and cooling. The rule-of-thumb for the HP pump is "lower and closer is better", and if it can be flooded by gravity with fuel before it begins to pump, that's best of all. So, whenever possible, place the HP pump at or below the fuel level it is drawing from - whether it's the surge tank or the main tank. Normally, the HP pump is placed right alongside the surge tank, or if a sump system, at or below the tank bottom. They can make a LOT of pressure with high pump speeds (7,000 to 15,000 rpm typical) and tight tolerances, but that also means they can burn-up very quickly if made to run dry for any length of time. Keep it close and low to it's fuel source.

Again, with a LP pump (which is designed to run dry for longer periods), there is no concern for it's placement. They have strong suction and low pressure - the opposite of a HP pump. With a LP pump, there is also no concern for surge tank placement. Only the HP has any concern for placement. The more powerful the HP pump, the more important it is. As an example, I was testing a fuel regulator using a powerful racing HP pump, new and dry right out of the box. I botched the connections and it ran dry for about 12 seconds or so when I heard it suddenly slow down. Toast. It was trying to seize like a dry engine with no oil. It still ran, but the performance was much diminished and it could hardly maintain normal pressures. On a daily driver you probably wouldn't notice and it would drive fine, but I crippled it enough that its racing days were over.

You might get 30 seconds or even a minute without damage on a stock HP pump. This is one reason that you shouldn't try to start an engine over and over again if you run out of gas. Lots of soccer-Moms have fried their HP fuel pumps in long futile attempts to start their mini-vans with empty tanks. Like any performance part, it should be installed for best performance and longest life. Keep HP pumps placed low and close to their fuel source.

David
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Old 02-18-2013, 01:00 PM   #32 (permalink)
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Re: efi swap safety solutions?

OK, now it's drop-sump time. Drop-sumps are simply pockets for fuel to collect in. They are usually baffled to make it more difficult for fuel to get back out than to get into the sump. The return line also empties into the sump to maintain fuel there. In these ways, it is similar to a surge tank setup, but also relies on fuel sloshing at low fuel levels to keep the sump full.

The benefits are the deletion of the LP pump, and potentially have all the components in the tank if the pump is also in-tank. The down-sides are that drop sumps and baffles are somewhat more difficult to install in a classic fuel tank, the addition is usually obvious from the rear of the car, and in certain installations the sump may be prone to road damage.

David

Drop sumps simply collect fuel into pockets for pump pickup:
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Old 02-18-2013, 03:46 PM   #33 (permalink)
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Re: efi swap safety solutions?

Finally, we hit the raised in-tank sumps. They can be very simple, but are usually applied to new tanks where the fabrication is part of the tank manufacturing process.

Raised sumps.
These are internal sumps that rise above the bottom of the tank. Again, they are designed to crate a pocket of fuel for the pump (either internal or external) to draw fuel from. The first is the typical raised sump with sloped sides to allow sloshing fuel to ride over the edge, yet be retained at the other side. This variety requires movement and sloshing to pump most of the fuel from the tank.

Down-sides are difficulty to add to a classic tank, and while it can get most of the fuel, it can leave a gallon or more unused before the pickup is un-covered. This is especially true if there is not enough movement and sloshing to maintain fuel to the pickup.

Labyrinth sump. At the bottom-center of this set of graphics is the labyrinth sump. The labyrinth has the advantage that fuel naturally seeking level height will find it's way into the sump area without any need for sloshing. This is especially useful for smooth cruising or extended idle, where other sumps can run dry with a couple gallons still in the tank. When cornering or accelerating, the fuel is relatively trapped in the maze.

The benefits to the labyrinth and similar types is the ability to get more fuel from the tank with it's self-filling design. Like most systems, it has drawbacks, and the primary one in this design is the difficulty installing into exiting tanks.

Raised box sumps. The lasts example is the raised box sump. Note the example has trap doors that act as one-way fuel gates. When fuel sloshes it will push past the trap door and into the sump, where it is trapped inside the one-way doors. While a creative solution that can be a bit easier to install; the box sump must be very well made for the trap doors to seal reasonably well. Even then, sediments, gums and varnishes may render the doors inoperative or poorly sealing, making it effectively useless.

Worse yet are copy-cat box sumps that look good, but have no trap doors, gates, reed valves or other means of filling. While the simplest and cheapest of this variety, they cannot fill except by sloshing, and with steep sides are prone to leave several gallons in the tank. This make them like a module or surge tank with no means to fill when fuel is low. Just as bad are ones that have holes or slots for filling, but the fuel can run out as easily as it gets in, again making it effectively useless.

David

Raised sumps keep a clean tank bottom, but (depending on type) are generally difficult to install or expensive to fabricate for reliable operation. Beware of fakes:

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