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Old 10-11-2007, 04:45 PM   #1 (permalink)
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418W build up - RPM or Vic Jr.

I have just joined the forum because of all of the good info I've seen on here. My 418W (actually, 424W since it is .060 over) is being assembled this week for my 67 Mustang coupe, and I'd like to get some feedback from you guys who have built strokers before. Here's the essential parts list:

Legends 9000 sieries 4.10 crank,
H-Beam 6.2 rods
Keith Black (.060 over) #724 forged pistons (10.1:1 comp.)
Total Seal Max-seal rings
Pro Comp aluminum heads 190cc intake runners and 2.02/ 1.60 valves moderately ported and polished (60cc chambers)
Comp Cams 35-426-8 retro-fit hyd. roller 236/242 @.050 555/576 lift on 110 lobe
BG Holley 850cfm carb
MSD ignition
Hedman headers
2.5" exhaust with X-pipe and Magnaflows

I have a Professional Products Hurricane (Victor Jr. type) intake and I have an Edelbrock Air-Gap RPM. The question is, which one to use? Either one would be port-matched to the heads. My goal is to get 500 streetable horsepower! The engine will be dyno'ed next week.

Built C-4 Trans w/ 2800 stall
3.55 posi rear
Four wheel power disk brakes
Manual steering
Front and rear sway bars, sub-frame connectors, Competition Engineering over-axle traction bars, Koni shocks, 1" lowering springs, 1 pc. export brace, Monte Carlo bar, etc.
Aluminum Radiator
The car will be used as a weekend street car.

The balancing and machine work is all done and ready to begin assembly this weekend. Any good feedback at this point is very much appreciated!

Last edited by kgordonl; 10-11-2007 at 05:23 PM. Reason: correction
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Old 10-11-2007, 07:04 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Re: 418W build up - RPM or Vic Jr.

The rpm intake will probably make more power in the usable powerband since hyd. rollers are not high rpm pieces.
But the hurricane intake will kill off some low rpm torque so it might actually work better on the street.
That 2.5" exhaust is going to choke it pretty bad.
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Old 10-12-2007, 03:47 AM   #3 (permalink)
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Re: 418W build up - RPM or Vic Jr.

I should be making peak power right around 6000rpm, so I'm not going to be turning it up very high. Since the car is light (~2800 lbs.) I was thinking that I could sacrifice a little torque on the low end for a little more HP. I'm leaning toward the Hurricane intake.
How badly do you think the exhaust is going to choke it? Since it is a street car, I want to run a full-length exhaust. I wonder how much stepping up to a 3" system would help.
My biggest concern was the heads. They are being opened up a little, but I didn't want the runners to be too big and kill too much throttle response and torque. Does anyone out there have experience with Pro Comp heads?

Last edited by kgordonl; 12-31-2007 at 07:56 AM.
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Old 10-12-2007, 06:42 AM   #4 (permalink)
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Re: 418W build up - RPM or Vic Jr.

The ports will be plenty fast with 400+cid pulling on them! I would be more worried about the ports stalling and causing seperation, even at 6000 rpm.
3" exhaust could be worth 50HP on that engine!!
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Old 10-12-2007, 07:31 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Re: 418W build up - RPM or Vic Jr.

What about my 1 5/8" headers? The least expensive 1 3/4" I've been able to find for my car are 500 bucks!
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Old 10-12-2007, 08:58 AM   #6 (permalink)
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Re: 418W build up - RPM or Vic Jr.

Yes I know, it's not cheap. I would say that the headers themselves could be worth 30HP. I'm not saying you should run out and buy this stuff and eat out of a garbage can for the next month...just pointing out things that you might want to change later on. If the car doesn't perform like you want, then these are areas that you can work on with time.
Believe me, I know about the dry money well....
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Old 10-12-2007, 10:02 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Re: 418W build up - RPM or Vic Jr.

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Originally Posted by ou812 View Post
Yes I know, it's not cheap. I would say that the headers themselves could be worth 30HP. I'm not saying you should run out and buy this stuff and eat out of a garbage can for the next month...just pointing out things that you might want to change later on. If the car doesn't perform like you want, then these are areas that you can work on with time.
Believe me, I know about the dry money well....
sounds allot like what I am building

1967 coupe

408w

hawks racing all fogred stroker kit
forged probe dished pistons
1972 351w block .30 over
Vic Jr intake
Vic Jr heads 60cc 210cc
mech roller cam: COMP Cams Xtreme Energy Cam and Lifter Kits: CCA-K35-771-8 - summitracing.com

thats all I have so far, Still debating on my carb size I dont want to over do it but I have been seeing people run 750s all the way up to 950+ and still say they need more carb. I am still looking for some good cheap 1.6 full roller rockers, and I dont know what kind of oil water pump to go with, and still not break the bank. also headers aswell.

as for the car I went with Hedit's super ride II IFS and there sub frame conectors with chassie stiffiner kit and drive shaft safety loop, I also went with there 4 link for my 9in with a posi 3.5 gear rear.

I also have a c4 that I want to put a 2800 stall in (what brand did you end up going with).

plan on doing 3in and dumping it at my rear axel.

small world.

but I am trying to get 500hp trq from my engine aswell and if you look around allot more people are surpassing that mark with allot less. so with what you have I could say 3in exaughst and you are there or really close.
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Old 10-12-2007, 10:02 AM   #8 (permalink)
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Re: 418W build up - RPM or Vic Jr.

double post
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Old 10-12-2007, 10:15 AM   #9 (permalink)
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Re: 418W build up - RPM or Vic Jr.

I take it this is a streetcar. I have a 418w in a similar application. I had a Performer RPM professionally ported with the runners balanced. It made a big performance difference on the dyno. Either manifold will acheive your goals. The 1 5/8 headers will hold your motor back. FPA 1 3/4 full length headers are awesome on my car. I replaced my exhaust with the 2.5" Magnaflow mandral bent true x system. Great sound and better seat of the pants performance than my previous flowmaster 3 chambers with 2.5" non mandel bent H pipe. I would not go bigger on the pipes than 2.5".
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Old 10-12-2007, 10:32 AM   #10 (permalink)
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Re: 418W build up - RPM or Vic Jr.

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Originally Posted by alanmacdougall View Post
I take it this is a streetcar. I have a 418w in a similar application. I had a Performer RPM professionally ported with the runners balanced. It made a big performance difference on the dyno. Either manifold will acheive your goals. The 1 5/8 headers will hold your motor back. FPA 1 3/4 full length headers are awesome on my car. I replaced my exhaust with the 2.5" Magnaflow mandral bent true x system. Great sound and better seat of the pants performance than my previous flowmaster 3 chambers with 2.5" non mandel bent H pipe. I would not go bigger on the pipes than 2.5".
That's true if you want a quieter car, then the 2.5" exhaust will be much better. But not from a power standpoint.
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Old 10-12-2007, 10:52 AM   #11 (permalink)
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Re: 418W build up - RPM or Vic Jr.

I have the same cam in a 347 and it peaks around 6000, I think your going to probably have a much lower peak than your anticipating, Probably somewhere in the 5000 rpm range.

I'm thinking the RPM Manifold will be a better match for the smallish cam for your CID your using and the parts you have.
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Last edited by dfree383; 10-12-2007 at 10:54 AM.
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Old 10-12-2007, 11:26 AM   #12 (permalink)
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Re: 418W build up - RPM or Vic Jr.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ou812 View Post
That's true if you want a quieter car, then the 2.5" exhaust will be much better. But not from a power standpoint.

Exhaust system trade offs: Sound, power, fitment, and ground clearance. This is a good article for exhaust systems:

Auto Exhaust Science

Also lots of info
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Old 10-12-2007, 12:23 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Re: 418W build up - RPM or Vic Jr.

Wow, a lot of good info!
This is a street car, so the "quiet" of a 2.5" exhaust would be fine as long as it doesn't kill too much power. The exhaust system I have is mandrel bent with an x-pipe and Magnaflows. It sounds like I may stand more to gain by upgrading to the 1 3/4" headers and then maybe upgrading the exhaust pipes later. Funny, this was originally going to be a nice little 302 project, then as soon as I said the word "stroker" my budget went all to crap!!! I may have to go to the sofa cushions for this one!

Last edited by kgordonl; 10-12-2007 at 12:53 PM.
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Old 10-12-2007, 12:45 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Re: 418W build up - RPM or Vic Jr.

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I have the same cam in a 347 and it peaks around 6000, I think your going to probably have a much lower peak than your anticipating, Probably somewhere in the 5000 rpm range.
I'm thinking the RPM Manifold will be a better match for the smallish cam for your CID your using and the parts you have.

I consulted Comp Cams (more than once) on the cam selection. I posed the same question to them, but they said that with my heads and set-up, the peak power should still be right at 6000. They pointed to the many articles where the Comp Cams XE282 (232/240@ .050 565/574 lift) was used in 393's and 408's with 185cc heads and similar compression that made over 500 HP on the dyno at just under 6000rpm with a lot of torque using a Victor Jr. intake. They said that my cam (236/242 @ .050 555/576 lift) is one step up from that one which should work well since my stroker is basically one step bigger than the 408. Also, they said that with my 2800 stall converter and 3.55 gears, I shouldn't go any bigger. Other companies I called actually recommended smaller cams with less duration around 230/236 @ .050.
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Old 10-12-2007, 01:54 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Re: 418W build up - RPM or Vic Jr.

I've had the car on a chassis dyno and I'm speaking from fact not theory. just trying to give you a heads up.
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