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Old 09-19-2009, 08:22 AM   #1 (permalink)
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427w

How streetable is a 427w? Im thinking around 550hp and 500 ft lbs of torque. Also how many miles would this last if driven like on weekends sometimes. I just dont want to pour money in a motor that is gonna give out in a year. Haha thanks
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Old 09-19-2009, 12:29 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Re: 427w

I have been in the engine building business foe 40 years ( longer ) and it is still the same deal.. THe more horsepower PER CUBIC INCH, the shorter the true life of the engine will be. IF you have something with a very high out put engine, DO NOT WASTE it by driving it just to be driving. THE less miles ( or actual running time ) the longer it will last. You must avoid unnessary start ups under the penalty of death ( just kidding ) cold startups are the single biggest thing that SHORTENS engine life


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Old 09-19-2009, 12:55 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Re: 427w

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Originally Posted by BIGJOE View Post
cold startups are the single biggest thing that SHORTENS engine life
JOE SHERMAN RACING ENGINES

It amazes me that more people dont use accumulators, if for no other reason, this one.
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Old 09-19-2009, 02:52 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Re: 427w

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Originally Posted by BIGJOE View Post
I have been in the engine building business foe 40 years ( longer ) and it is still the same deal.. THe more horsepower PER CUBIC INCH, the shorter the true life of the engine will be. IF you have something with a very high out put engine, DO NOT WASTE it by driving it just to be driving. THE less miles ( or actual running time ) the longer it will last. You must avoid unnessary start ups under the penalty of death ( just kidding ) cold startups are the single biggest thing that SHORTENS engine life


JOE SHERMAN RACING ENGINES
So then it's not necessarily the engine being stroked and everything thats shortening its life, its how much power its actually making, right??
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Old 09-19-2009, 04:39 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Re: 427w

My driver is a 427W. Not to the extreme you want to go, though. The stroking and rod ratio, bore side loading and such is not a concern. Really. When people mention this to me, I just ask them if Chev 454's or 400's, or Honda Civics, or Jeep I4's wear out too fast. They always look at me puzzled and then I tell them the rod ratio due to the stroking is equivalent to mine in those and many more engines.

Due to the power level you're hunting, my first concern would be the valve gear and guides from the high lift and pressures you're going to need. With the Pro Street cars, that's usually the first money-sucker. If it's an auto tranny, that will be an issue needing attention with the high stall and some additional heat production in street driving. For 550hp you'd better have a plan for good fuel and tuning above the average. And, yes, the accumulator or home-made equivalent would be a really good idea in this situation.

BTW, that power level will be next to useless on the street. If you want it drivable to avoid trailering to the strip, then you might want to reconsider. Oh, and 550hp would be an engine-dyno number I presume. Getting that through a decent air filter and legal mufflers will be a challenge without a simple-solution power adder. Just ask this guy. Sounds fun, though!

David
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Old 09-19-2009, 05:01 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Re: 427w

PSIG, what kind of numbers are running? I basically want a street warrior, might see the strip some. It doesnt necessarily have to be the numbers I said, but I would like at least high 400s or low 500s for torque and hp.
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Old 09-19-2009, 06:52 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Re: 427w

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Originally Posted by 66EmbergloLane View Post
PSIG, what kind of numbers are running? I basically want a street warrior, might see the strip some. It doesn't necessarily have to be the numbers I said, but I would like at least high 400s or low 500s for torque and hp.
Oh no, nothing like what you're after. I built mine as a power cruiser. It's a convertible and built for using torque on the road. Real numbers? I don't have those as it's only street-tuned (and there is definitely more left in it) and always undergoing mods, but based on my fuel flows, parts combo and trusty butt-o-meter, it's in the low 400hp/420tq range. It's actually quite similar to the build kgordonl did in the link I gave earlier. It may not sound like much, but I think a truly accurate figure - not a typical number most hotshots throw around. More like a prepped factory FE 427 side-oiler. And that's enough for this app. It already twists the poor car like a wet noodle and I'm always cringing I'll pop or break the windshield... when I can get traction.

With my 5-speed, my 1st gear is equivalent to a toploader and 4.30 gears, but cruises at under 2000 rpm at 65 mph. I figure it should do mid 11's with tires and some chassis tuning at nearly 4000 pounds wet with me in it. But it's not made for that. To get a decent cruise efficiency, the cam has to be efficient at the cruise rpm, so a much smaller cam than you're thinking - around 240@.050. How's 22 mpg on anybody's pump gas sound? That's good for what I use it for. I hope to cruise Hwy 101 from Canada to SoCal next year.

No, it's not as fast as my other cars, but would easily kick 9 out of 10 street challengers. Yes, I make children cry, snobby 'tuner' passengers scream new and creative names for Jesus, and my wife instantly grabs the seat front, door, and tucks her chin when I say "hold on" when testing after any mods or twiddling - which is before every drive. Indeed, it is one of those carefully planned combinations for a specific purpose, and it makes me smile every time I drive it.

Anyway, if you want a fire-breather, follow some of the real-life threads on the forums and get an handle on what you really want, can afford, and are willing to compromise on for your goals. I guarantee you'll be much happier in the long run. If it's pure unadulterated power you want, that's one thing, and easier to do. If it's a kick-ass awe-inspiring street car, that's another.

David
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Old 09-19-2009, 07:06 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Re: 427w

Haha thanks man. It'll be a while before i actually need the motor though. One day, one day
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Old 09-19-2009, 09:02 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Re: 427w

I just got back a few hours ago from a 150 mile roudtrip with my 425 inch stroker. With overdrive, I barely saw 2100 on the highway. Did a photo shoot with a Popular HotRodding photographer (Stephen Kim). Story will come out probably around December.

Mine dyno'ed at 548/545 (best average pull, close to 558 on the best hp pull). It's a *****cat around town, and runs easy 11's already in a 3730# station wagon.

Joe's advice is golden. The bigger the motor, the longer it will last (within reason, of course)

"RPM = Ruins People's Motors" - Larry Widmer

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Old 09-20-2009, 08:46 AM   #10 (permalink)
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Re: 427w

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Originally Posted by PSIG View Post
BTW, that power level will be next to useless on the street. If you want it drivable to avoid trailering to the strip, then you might want to reconsider. Oh, and 550hp would be an engine-dyno number I presume. Getting that through a decent air filter and legal mufflers will be a challenge without a simple-solution power adder. Just ask this guy. Sounds fun, though!

David
Now hang on a minute there David... I think my experience is more of a lesson in getting your combo right in the first place rather than not to build a big stroker for the street. I feel certain that mine is currently making over 500HP at the crank without a power adder through an air filter and full exhaust, but is showing a pretty typical loss on the chassis dyno due to the AOD and a cheap, loose converter.
To the contrary, it runs great on the street and is a blast to drive! Just like LnL said, I've taken mine on weekend trips out of town and cruise 2500 rpm all day long with the AOD.

You have to keep in mind that my thread documents all of the challenges I've had along the way (including smashing it into the back of my garage!), but it doesn't fully document all of the fun I've had with the car taking it to local cruises, car shows, and weekend trips out of town. The car has run great on the street this whole time. I have just been tweaking my combo to get the power out of it that I expected. If I had been smart and started out with my current combo then laid down 423 RWHP and 448 RWTQ the first time on the chassis dyno in a street car with an AOD tranny, my thread would be a whole lot shorter!!!
I think that with the upgraded fuel system and tighter converter, I will get a little more out of it. Then I will be done with the chassis dyno and plan to give it a run down the track to have some fun and see what I really have.

What I would say to 66EmbergloLane is that a streetable 500-550HP (at the crank) 408-427W is very obtainable as long as you put together the right combo and don't try to cut a lot of corners (like I did to start with). If you are unsure of the right combo, then work with a good engine builder who does - It will save you a lot of $$$ in the long run!
By using more cubes and making peak power at lower rpms, a well built 427W should last just as long as any other streetable high performance small block.

I believe there are a lot of guys out there with "500+ HP" engines that are actually only making 400HP or less because they don't know how to tune them properly or more likely their combo isn't what they think it is!
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Last edited by kgordonl; 09-28-2009 at 04:54 AM.
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Old 09-20-2009, 10:09 AM   #11 (permalink)
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Re: 427w

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Now hang on a minute there David... I think my experience is more of a lesson in getting your combo right in the first place rather than not to build a big stroker for the street. ...
Well said - and that is what my point was trying to be, and why I took so long describing my combo. We each have specific goals (or should) and it's not as easy as building a deep stroke and randomly adding these heads Harry said were good, and that cam from Larry, and that induction Gerry likes, etc. If you did that, it would run but likely wouldn't reach your goals. Almost any combo will hit that power level with a power adder, but to do it NA, and have it reach goals on the street takes a bit more planning and research. Oh, it certainly can be done, and is done regularly by those that have set their goals and planned the best path to it - but to just say 'I want X power and drive it on the street' does not have enough info to avoid tripping into the common pitfalls we all know so well.

Part of my point about my convertible is that it has different goals, and as a retirement cruiser to be absolutely brick reliable while driving tens of thousands of miles around the US on crap local gas and getting mid-20s mileage while still handling all challengers was my list of requirements. His will be different and need a different combo of parts. What the specific goals are, and the combo needed to reach those goals - is the challenge. The fact that my combo will only end-up making mid-400hp levels is not a tuning or parts combination failure, but rather the product of a planned package for a specific purpose. Your goals are different.

Again, if its pure power, it's relatively easy. As a demo project, I'm doing a full build using a $2000 vehicle and a total budget of $10,000 for the whole build (everything - from radiator to tires) that will make 800+hp, have decent street manners, run on pump gas, no N2O, and easily run 10-flat to the limit of the safety gear. For $10k. Total. I know I can do it, and exactly how I will get there. Once again, a completely different list of goals, and a different combo to get the job done.

Is a powerful engine any good to anyone without application? Do big peak dyno numbers tell the story? Not really. I was at a NASA seminar where they were reporting a research engine - a 700cc 2-stroke - that made over 700hp. Inch-for-inch, that's like your stroker making roughly 7300hp. Sure, it had cool stuff like combustion-control chambers and barium-based fuel, but is it useful? Pretty much not to anyone but the research department. So, just making HP numbers does not mean it will reach other goals.

Interesting discussion. I don't think we're that far apart on our points - just how we're making them. No?

David
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Old 09-20-2009, 04:07 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Re: 427w

Hey David, it sounds like we are more on the same page than I initially thought. I interpreted what you posted as saying that 550HP strokers are useless for the street and that you would need a power adder to make that kind of power truly streetable.

We definately agree that having the right combo to meet your goals is the key. I learned the hard way that just adding cubic inches does not necessarily make a lot of power. When you add the extra cubes, you will need better flowing heads, exhaust, carb, and a different cam. Otherwise you are just going to plug it up with whichever component is too small and would probably have been better off not stroking it in the first place. You also need to use quality components to handle that level of power. I wasted a lot of time and money messing around with ProComp heads and a small cam. Not to mention destroying my first transmission that was not up to the task, replacing my cheap torque converter, and upgrading the fuel system.

Needless to say this has been a learning experience, but I'm very happy with how it has ultimately turned out. My next build will go much smoother... I hope!
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Last edited by kgordonl; 09-20-2009 at 06:30 PM.
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