Camshaft end play - Ford Muscle Forums : Ford Muscle Cars Tech Forum

Martin_T · 01-23-2013, 01:25 PM

Hi

I forgot to check the end play of my cam in relationship to the thrust plate on my 347 build, before I put the timing gear on. Both the cam and the thrust plate are brand new. It will be difficult to get the timing gear off (as I had to knock it on to the keyway etc with a soft hammer). Should I worry about the end play as everthing is new? If the answer is yes, how can I take an accurate reading of the end play without taking the timing gear off?

Thanks

Martin

KULTULZ · 01-23-2013, 01:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martin_T

Hi

I forgot to check the end play of my cam in relationship to the thrust plate on my 347 build, before I put the timing gear on. Both the cam and the thrust plate are brand new.

It will be difficult to get the timing gear off (as I had to knock it on to the keyway etc with a soft hammer).

Should I worry about the end play as everthing is new? If the answer is yes, how can I take an accurate reading of the end play without taking the timing gear off?

Thanks

Martin

You had to tap the cam gear onto the installed cam?

You should have plenty of clearance now.

Martin_T · 01-23-2013, 01:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KULTULZ

You had to tap the cam gear onto the installed cam?

You should have plenty of clearance now.

It certainly didn't just slide on................is that bad?

Martin_T · 01-23-2013, 02:22 PM

Ok, just been in the garage. I took the eccentric off and used a dial gauge against the timing gear. I pushed the gear back and then pulled it forward. I reckon its about 0.003 end play. According to the Tom Monroe book, that aint bad!!

It a big learning curve here.........be patient with me!!!

Martin

KULTULZ · 01-23-2013, 03:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martin_T

Ok, just been in the garage. I took the eccentric off and used a dial gauge against the timing gear. I pushed the gear back and then pulled it forward. I reckon its about 0.003 end play. According to the Tom Monroe book, that aint bad!!

It a big learning curve here.........be patient with me!!!

Martin

RECKON is not a measurement. You say you mounted a dial indicator. What were the values when you moved the cam in and out and are they within spec?

If they are, you should be good.

You need to study that text a little more thoroughly. You learn as you go but not without the proper repair manual.

bartlettracing · 01-23-2013, 06:21 PM

IMO ....003 is alittle tight, I like .006min.

Martin_T · 01-23-2013, 11:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KULTULZ

RECKON is not a measurement. You say you mounted a dial indicator. What were the values when you moved the cam in and out and are they within spec?

If they are, you should be good.

You need to study that text a little more thoroughly. You learn as you go but not without the proper repair manual.

Ok, RECKON is just a term of phrase here. I pushed the gear back, butted the dial indicator up, set it to 0 and then pulled the gear forward, I got 0.003in. I did this a couple of times and got the same measurement.

Only decent, informative manual I can find in the UK is the Tom Monroe "How to Rebuild Small Block Fords". Any advice on others?

Martin

KULTULZ · 01-24-2013, 01:16 AM

When rebuilding, you go by factory specs unless it is HP and you realize what you are modifying may cost you.

I am sure the author used OEM Specs. You go by these unless the cam grinder recommends different specs.

You are only insuring clearance(s) for component heat expansion but not to the point of having cam walk.

FEandGoingBroke · 01-24-2013, 08:56 AM

When rebuilding go by the specs issued by the manufacturer of the PARTS that you are replacing, if they come Without specs then go with Factory settings. I too think .003 is a little tight, but it's not likely going to throw a monkey wrench into the mix.

PSIG · 01-24-2013, 10:18 AM

Your end-play is partially dependent on the cam you are running, as iron and steel cams use different end-play spec's. If you have an iron cam (most flat-tappet) you're good. If you have a steel cam (most roller), then you should be at .005-.006" recommended spec. Ford used these specs between the flat-tappet and roller cams as well.

My personal preference is also for a bit more. Since both flats and rollers are in-spec at .005-.0055", I set all of them there and move on. That's me.

David

Martin_T · 01-24-2013, 11:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FEandGoingBroke

When rebuilding go by the specs issued by the manufacturer of the PARTS that you are replacing, if they come Without specs then go with Factory settings. I too think .003 is a little tight, but it's not likely going to throw a monkey wrench into the mix.

Thanks very much for all the feedback, its really appreciated. I have been in the garage tonight and exhaustivley measured using the dial indicator from all angles! My final conclusion is that I have 0.00374 inches or 0.095mm. From the information from you guys and what I read, that is OK with my Lunati Cam.
Thanks for all the information

Martin

65FalconLover · 01-24-2013, 03:27 PM

When I assembled my motor I had the same concerns. Right or wrong the builder of the short block told me not to worry about it too much and there isn't much you can do aside using shims or whatever. It's been in the car for about three years and countless runs to 6,200+ RPM without a peep.

John

Martin_T · 01-24-2013, 11:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 65FalconLover

When I assembled my motor I had the same concerns. Right or wrong the builder of the short block told me not to worry about it too much and there isn't much you can do aside using shims or whatever. It's been in the car for about three years and countless runs to 6,200+ RPM without a peep.

John

Thanks John

PSIG · 01-25-2013, 10:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 65FalconLover

... Right or wrong the builder of the short block told me not to worry about it too much and there isn't much you can do aside using shims or whatever. ...

Not to drill your guy - but he was dead wrong. Setting cam end play is super-easy and does not involve any extra parts or shims. While this may not apply to Martin (he hasn't said if it's an iron or steel cam), but if roller, the clearance must be larger to avoid anything from minor galling to seizing and serious engine damage. Setting end play is as simple as assembling the cam, thrust plate and timing gear (out of the engine is fine), and measuring the gap between the thrust plate and either the timing gear or cam. If the gap is too large, you just get a new thrust plate and measure again. If the gap is too small, you simply plate-sand the thrust plate by the amount you need. I would be concerned he didn't know that. Although, you did not give your specs and cam type, apparently it was not right.

In Martin's case, if he has .003" and he has a roller, he just needs to evenly plate-sand .002" off the thrust plate. Done in 3 minutes. There is no reason to risk anything or let it slide. Seriously. I only mention this because the "close enough" advice from your builder may result in someone else trashing their engine, and I have seen exactly that. I'm not being anal about this - there are thrust specs for a reason.

David

KULTULZ · 01-25-2013, 10:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PSIG

There is no reason to risk anything or let it slide. Seriously. I only mention this because the "close enough" advice from your builder may result in someone else trashing their engine, and I have seen exactly that. I'm not being anal about this - there are thrust specs for a reason.

David

Very true.

Tapping a cam gear onto a cam while installed may move the rear cup outwards and cause unwanted cam play. It is much easier to adjust on the stand than in the chassis.