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Old 06-02-2010, 04:32 PM   #1 (permalink)
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supercharged 351 cleveland

Ok guys, i'm still a novice gearhead so I really need your opinions and/or expertise with engines here. I want to come up with a long-term plan for my torino so i know where i'm going with the car. it's still pretty stock but the block has low miles on it...but i am aware that i must strengthen the bottom end and install forged pistons, etc...

so my questions are:

1) has anyone heard of supercharging their 351 and if so, what were the results?

2) would twin-turbos be a better route than a supercharger?

3) about how much would it set me back? (i'm thinking ~$15,000 in all)

4) are there any decent supercharger kits out there for a 351c?

any and all wisdom is appreciated.

thanks for reading!
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Old 06-02-2010, 08:32 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Re: supercharged 351 cleveland

Are you talking about a Roots type blower , or a paxton type supercharger ?
I looked into putting a roots blower on the 351C in my 72 wagon a few years ago , and talked to or looked at most of the blower companies in and around so cal . The engine was already rebuilt before I decided to look into it , so it didn't get forged pistons . The guys at BDS said that wasn't so much of a problem if you're only gonna run mild boost -- 6 - 10 psi . The main thing they said you need , is a second keyway cut into the crankshaft because of the extra stress ( roots blowers are driven off the crank ) . They said you can run it for a little bit with only one keyway , but that it WILL break sooner or later ( and take out alot of stuff with it ) . Another couple things they said were important , were camshaft selection and not running it lean . Running minimum boost (6 psi ) on a 6-71 , I would have needed 2 650 cfm carbs .
Hampton Blowers over in Downey seemed to have the best kit for the money . All in all it was gonna be around $6K not including what it cost for the engine rebuild .
BTW , I'm part of a casual Fairlane / Torino club in SoCal --- shoot me a pm if you're interested .

Hope some of this helps
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Old 06-02-2010, 09:28 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Re: supercharged 351 cleveland

i really appreciate the info, Torinobros. I am looking for a roots-type blower, it is my understanding that centrifugal-type superchargers spool up like a turbo and provide more high-end torque, so i think roots would be best for my application.

Since my engine hasnt been rebuilt yet, is the second keyway thing something that can be purchased from a manufacturer or can the guys at BDS do that?

While i was researching blowers on google, i do recall finding a webpage saying that the 617 blower would fit my engine. So does that mean that any brand/model 617 roots blower will work? and just the kit/hardware is different?

thanks in advance, as i said, i am really new with the modding and performance upgrade side of engines.
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Old 06-02-2010, 09:52 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Re: supercharged 351 cleveland

Any machine shop / engine rebuilder would be able to cut the keyway --- I think it was only $80 to do mine --- but the engine was already back in the car . Get done while you're getting the rest of the machine work done .

You should be able to use any of the following roots type blowers --- 4-71 , 6-71 , 8-71 , etc . The 6-71 is the most common type used . Most of the basic kits / hardware is the same , you just have to specify the engine make / model for the intake manifold . Oh yeah , you'll need to get a distributor that will fit under the blower snout . Also , alot of the basic kits don't include carb linkage , scoop/air cleaner , etc .

One of these days I'm gonna do up a blower motor for my wagon --- just for the "Oh sh*t " factor .
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Old 06-02-2010, 10:50 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Re: supercharged 351 cleveland

ok, good deal, man. So i would just buy the kit and have the machine shop match the grooves on the blower pulley to make the grooves on the crank? sounds straightforward. Now, the kits do not include the carbs if I understand things correctly. I went on the BDS website and everything seems to be straightforward (as long as you have an extremely thick billfold) as far as what is needed.

So how do I find out what type of carbs would be needed? now that i know what type of blower/manifold etc..

I really appreciate your expertise with this...
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Old 06-02-2010, 11:26 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Re: supercharged 351 cleveland

The keyway on the crankshaft is what locates the harmonic balancer into it's correct position . Another one is added to locate the blower drive pulley and to keep it from spinning off the snout of the crank .
Carbs are usually NOT included in the basic kits . Carb selection is going to be based mainly on boost , and camshaft selection , but as with any other high performance build , compression , head flow , exhaust , converter stall speed , and rear gear ratio all come into play .

It's not really hands on expertise -- just alot of research --- read up on it as much as you can , and don't be afraid to call and talk to some of these companies .
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Old 06-03-2010, 12:27 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Re: supercharged 351 cleveland

Quote:
Originally Posted by ucla2012 View Post
I want to come up with a long-term plan for my torino so i know where i'm going with the car.
What are your long term plans for the car? How will you use it?

David
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Old 06-03-2010, 12:16 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Re: supercharged 351 cleveland

Well, David, that's the thing.. I am trying to figure out my options and weigh the benefits of NA vs Supercharging. An acquaintance was telling me that the only way to get real HP and torque was with a supercharger, I respectfully disagreed with him. But it did get me thinking on the possibilities...

For now, my Torino is something of a daily driver... but i know that will change as I build it up. I want it to be a fun weekend car in the long run.
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Old 06-03-2010, 11:18 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Re: supercharged 351 cleveland

not sure if this is still available?

Ford Cleveland Engine Classifieds: 351C KUHL blower set-up FOR SALE

a 671 is gonna put your car into a narrow niche. a hole in the hood with polished aluminum goodies means no driving in the rain unless you like to repolish stuff a lot, or don't mind it looking like crap. or you can go the unpolished route to begin with... but the open hood does take a toll on the looks of the engine compartment on a driver. it'll need to be garage kept and probably with an alarm or 2

and no, you don't NEED a blower to make decent power... but it sure makes it easier!

i'm doing a 671 build at the moment, J&E forged pistons, Eagle H beam rods, stock crank double keyed for the steel drive hub. bushed lifter bores for oil control, solid lift cam, 1 piece stainless valves, triple springs and Jomar girdles if they'll fit, maybe a main stud girdle too?

a key component is a distributor that'll work with the rest of the set up, if you need an offset dizzy for clearance it'll costa pretty penny. or you can go crank trigger, hall effect sender or whatever else will work
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Old 06-04-2010, 03:24 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Re: supercharged 351 cleveland

yeah, i figured i'd need to upgrade my security once it started to look like a hotrod.

So i was looking at the kits that BDS sells and i was wondering what the opinion was with their cams... because they don't sell a complete kit for the 351, i need to piece it together: blower, intake manifold, cam, gaskets, carbs... so i was wondering if their cams are tuned to perform best with the blower or are there other cams that would give better results. I am just asking because i know that one of the secrets to horsepower is having everything matched...

thanks!
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Old 06-04-2010, 05:57 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Re: supercharged 351 cleveland

a while back i looked at the BDS cams they have listed... cam1 & cam2?

not very informative, Top Secret even.

in general you want a low overlap and wider Lobe Seperation Angle, which occur hand in hand. cams that are suitable for computer controlled EFI usually follow this recipe, but it's not much help as there weren't any computer controlled EFI Clevelands ever produced and very few retro'd

another factor is to favor the exhaust with a longer duration but that gets tricky while trying to limit the overlap

Crower used to list Cleveland blower cams in theier catalog but they might be 'ask only' these days. maybe the BDS cams are Crower? probably any of the major cam mfg'ers can supply a suitable blower cam, i'm sure Comp can come up with something from their lobe list and grind it up
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Old 06-11-2010, 11:07 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Re: supercharged 351 cleveland

you are trying to accomplish what i was originally going to do..... get the car running, then save up and buy all that i needed to build a demon on wheels!!! i wanted a paxton novi procharger though.... mainly because its more stealth....

good luck with the build!!!
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Old 06-12-2010, 06:30 AM   #13 (permalink)
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Re: supercharged 351 cleveland

You should have no problem with the blower on the cleveland.My brother has been running a dyer's v-671 for over 10yrs on his 68 Ranch.He has a pretty basic bottom end with open chamber 4v heads to keep compression down.He runs about 8ps boost with a stock bottom end,he has two carters 750cfm on top,with a 4-speed and 430 gears this thing pulls like a freight train.
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Old 06-29-2010, 11:47 AM   #14 (permalink)
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Re: supercharged 351 cleveland

thanks for the info, ford88, thats what i wanna do to. gonna be great, once the funds are around...
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