Cost of Windsor build Vs Cleve Build? - Ford Muscle Forums : Ford Muscle Cars Tech Forum
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post #1 of 18 (permalink) Old 10-17-2002, 02:31 PM Thread Starter
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Cost of Windsor build Vs Cleve Build?

What is the cost of a Windsor build Vs a Cleve build in the 350-450 hp range? Looking to drop one into an 80's 5.0 not sure which to use..what is the availability of good heads for a windsor? Will it have the same kinda power?
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post #2 of 18 (permalink) Old 10-17-2002, 02:37 PM
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Cost of Windsor build Vs Cleve Build?

Facts - Tons more choices for aftermarket W parts. Cost depends on what you are starting with. If you already have a C with Worldproducts heads, it's waaay cheaper to build the C. Also depends on what condition your existing parts are in.

On the other hand, starting fresh with no parts in hand, I think the W is cheaper.

Anyone wanna back me up on this? I only have worked with W series motors so far and am repeating what I have heard in the past.
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post #3 of 18 (permalink) Old 10-17-2002, 02:38 PM
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Cost of Windsor build Vs Cleve Build?

"C" with world product heads?

I think you have C and W mixed up

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post #4 of 18 (permalink) Old 10-17-2002, 02:40 PM
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Cost of Windsor build Vs Cleve Build?

I think a 351-C would need less stuff done to it to reach those HP numbers but,Mustangrulz is right the 351-W has many more parts out there for it right now.


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post #5 of 18 (permalink) Old 10-17-2002, 02:40 PM
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Cost of Windsor build Vs Cleve Build?

I run both. Same cost. Just depends on the parts you add-on.

BTW, I have a complete 416 HP street cleveland for sale. Check out the stats at http://flowmotion.home.attbi.com
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post #6 of 18 (permalink) Old 10-17-2002, 02:45 PM Thread Starter
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Cost of Windsor build Vs Cleve Build?

How much for your cleve? I live in Calgary.Ab also
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post #7 of 18 (permalink) Old 10-18-2002, 08:00 AM
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Cost of Windsor build Vs Cleve Build?

Quote:
On 2002-10-17 14:40, allenman85 wrote:
I run both. Same cost. Just depends on the parts you add-on.

BTW, I have a complete 416 HP street cleveland for sale. Check out the stats at http://flowmotion.home.attbi.com
Bah... Take a stock 351C 2V, stick in a bumpy stick, bolt on an aftermarket intake and carb, and you have your 350-400HP. $600(ish)

Windsor is gonna need a little more than that, since Windsors are almost guaranteed to need better heads.
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post #8 of 18 (permalink) Old 10-18-2002, 10:09 AM
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Cost of Windsor build Vs Cleve Build?

Okay I have an opportunity to obtain a "Q" code cleveland low milage in good condition reasonable or I was thinking about the FMS GT-40 351W 385hp which I figure after porting and intake carb cam on the C motor would cost about the same which would be more durable I like the thought of having a Cleveland in my 69 Mustang but I dont want to be having to work on it continually and just want a strong 400+ motor for the street and occasional track. Is it worth it?

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post #9 of 18 (permalink) Old 10-18-2002, 10:52 AM
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Cost of Windsor build Vs Cleve Build?

The 69 originally only came with a 351W (M code) in case originality matters.

Will
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post #10 of 18 (permalink) Old 10-18-2002, 12:14 PM
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Cost of Windsor build Vs Cleve Build?

Yeah I know, but it was butchered before I bought it. It looked good then to find out it had many other years of parts scattered through out it, mainly 65-68 I think mostly because the 69 parts are either difficult to obtain and in some areas more expensive, not mention it looks like he put it together just good enough to sell, so a cleveland motor doesnt really matter too much as for orginality.
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post #11 of 18 (permalink) Old 10-18-2002, 03:50 PM
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Cost of Windsor build Vs Cleve Build?

A Q code 351C in a 69 is just about the perfect match. I'd think you would not spend as much on the C as the 385HP W, especially if you get the C for low $. Just do some rework and mild porting on the heads, add stainless valves to protect your investment, run a complete cam system from whoever, run a Torker intake and you should be able to meet your goal easily. Go here: http://www.network54.com/Hide/Forum/119419 and use the search function to review the posts and you'll get a much better feel for what you can do with that Q code.





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post #12 of 18 (permalink) Old 10-18-2002, 05:56 PM Thread Starter
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Cost of Windsor build Vs Cleve Build?

If i'm changing heads no matter what (even if it WAS a cleve) to closed chambers or an aftermarket design, would the price be about the same? What is physically different in the shortblock, is what i'm saying? ...
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post #13 of 18 (permalink) Old 10-19-2002, 11:12 AM
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Cost of Windsor build Vs Cleve Build?

well as I always say its always cheaper(not to mention easyer) to build what you have.....in most cases.
It also depends on the condition of the block ,heads, and other engine pieces you plan to reuse. I think you need to get more specific in the type of engine performance you want. There is a pretty big diff between a 350 hp and 450 hp engine either way you go. As far an otherwise stock 351C 2V making 400 hp with only a cam, intake, and carb change? Well thats wishfull thinking...especially for 600.00 All non Boss heads need to be machined for screw in studs and guideplates if any healthy cam is planned and it will be if your talking 450 hp. Your asking for trouble otherwise. Either engine will cost close to the same for the shortblock rebuild given same starting condition with the windsor being slightly cheaper due to the large volume of parts available for it.


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post #14 of 18 (permalink) Old 10-19-2002, 01:13 PM Thread Starter
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Cost of Windsor build Vs Cleve Build?

Ok thanks.. I plan to use Flattop pistons, stroker crank, a good set of aftermarket heads (undecided on brand) and a 220-230 dur cam, RRockers.
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post #15 of 18 (permalink) Old 10-19-2002, 11:51 PM
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Cost of Windsor build Vs Cleve Build?

The C has smaller mains than the W, which reduces bearing speed. The C deck is also shorter (9.2 vs 9.3+). C rods are 5.78 vs 5.995 for the W. Good heads are going to cost - is it the same? Depends on what you have done. 4v's can be a bit cheaper than good aftermarket alum. heads, but the 4V's are not perfect. The build cost for the total motor will be about the same, but you will need to think more when building the C. Car Craft built a 500HP 408W for about $10,000 - there are plenty of folks on the 335 Forum that have that and didn't spend $10K. My .02$





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