solid flat tappet cam ... pass smog????? - Ford Muscle Forums : Ford Muscle Cars Tech Forum
 
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post #1 of 13 (permalink) Old 05-19-2003, 08:31 PM Thread Starter
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solid flat tappet cam ... pass smog?????

It's me again on my 460 cam selection for my 73 Mach1 which MUST I repeat MUST pass smog testing.

Now the question ...

The 71 429 CJ motor came with a solid lifter valvetrain ...

1st "Q" ... Does anyone have info at their disposal on the specs of the cam that came in that engine.

Then the real question ... Do you all think I could pass smog with this sort of cam in a 460??

(understand I need help on the 1st "Q" before the "real" question can be evaluated)

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[ This Message was edited by: monstermach on 5/20/03 8:42am ]
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post #2 of 13 (permalink) Old 05-19-2003, 09:03 PM
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solid flat tappet cam ... pass smog?????

How is the test performed in your state?Over here they just check the co2 in idle.I passed easily with my 71 10.5:1 comp 460.I used a very lean eddy carb and took back the ignition timing to factory specs.If you use that factory type(just a bit hotter) cam i guess that should be ok.
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post #3 of 13 (permalink) Old 05-19-2003, 09:12 PM Thread Starter
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solid flat tappet cam ... pass smog?????

There is no "Parts or equiptment verification" ...

They use the tail-pipe sniffer at idle and at one or two rpm intervals.

I have to believe "Idle" would be the most difficult level to excecute against.


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post #4 of 13 (permalink) Old 05-19-2003, 09:34 PM
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solid flat tappet cam ... pass smog?????

Can you find out what they test.I mean if its only co2 you can borrow a test that before going there.The idle thing is easy but that rpm stages are the bad thing about it.We use to lean our carbed cars totally out until they pass.Do you now the old catalysts without a co2 sensor?How about putting one in for a day?

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post #5 of 13 (permalink) Old 05-19-2003, 11:41 PM
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solid flat tappet cam ... pass smog?????

Solid or hydrolic should not matter. I would think the main reason a car fails inspection is because it is running or tuned poorly. I passsed WA. emmissions with a stock 1969 429 with a holly 750 on it. Things like idel mixture settings, tune up, have significant importance IMO. I always checked the plugs to make sure they were all working good, put premium gas in it and drive the hell out of it before the test session.

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post #6 of 13 (permalink) Old 05-20-2003, 03:15 AM
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solid flat tappet cam ... pass smog?????

Hmm... not to sure about tha cam, but I had a friend that had a really radical cam and exhaust that could kill a cat, and make your eyes watter at the same time. All he did was hook up a vacuum guage tot he manifold and adjust the idle mixture and then kicked the idle up and adjusted it again to get the highest vacuum reading. Put on a turbo muffler and drilled 4 holes at the top of the muffler befor installing it. so that way most of the exhaust would go out the holes. And then drove it to the gas station, siphon'd out all of his gas put the highest octane in and bought a thing of octane booster and mixed it with his gas, also did some upgrades so his ignition system would put out more spark and put 4 prong Bosch spark plugs in. The year befor he tryed adding some great smelling bubblegum fuel treatment to the gas. That was in a 4x4 with straight pipes. And he passed that way. And this was all in Washington State. Me. what I do is keep my truck registerd where emitions arent a requirement... No problems...
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post #7 of 13 (permalink) Old 05-20-2003, 03:31 AM
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solid flat tappet cam ... pass smog?????

larry,

you could do what PLENTY AND PLENTY of 5.0, camaro, and import people do when they have smog illegal cars. JUST GET AN ILLEGAL SMOG!!! i have plenty of friends who go with illegal smogs. just find a smog shop who will do it for you, though you will pay the price tag but again it'll be worth it. my buddy paid 250 to get his illegal smog and my co-worker paid 250 as well.

or you can do what alot of military guys do at my shop. they register and insurance they're car in they're home state or in some other state where they just know of have family where there isn't any smog laws. if you have family where there's no smog law, then there you go. or just go with an illegal smog.
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post #8 of 13 (permalink) Old 05-20-2003, 10:05 AM Thread Starter
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solid flat tappet cam ... pass smog?????

Olie ... you are completely missing the point ... I don't want a car as a daily driver that I have to be concerned "jacking myself around" with every year ... That makes zero sense to me.

Every smog shop in Vegas is electronicly connected to "The State" and are monitored.

When done the Mach1 motor needs to simply "Be compliant"

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post #9 of 13 (permalink) Old 05-20-2003, 10:27 AM
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solid flat tappet cam ... pass smog?????

I can dig up the specs if you still need them. I know the lift is .501, I have a SCJ in my Spoiler. I had to do a sniffer on it once some years ago. With it the way it was it failed horribly, until I leaned it down. It passed, but barely. There's ways to get it cleaner, a good ignition helped mine a LOT.




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post #10 of 13 (permalink) Old 05-20-2003, 12:32 PM
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solid flat tappet cam ... pass smog?????

Another thing Olie, we have to smog every year, and we also have lil monitoring stations randomly setup across the valley. Smog cheaters are caught, and caught fast. Thats why Im not going as radical as I'd like to with my cleveland build. DMV fines get WAY expensive.

Those that say it cant be done should say so quietly, so as not to disturb those who are doing it.
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post #11 of 13 (permalink) Old 05-21-2003, 04:51 AM
 
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solid flat tappet cam ... pass smog?????

A few years ago I heard a good rule of thumb for picking a cam that will pass an emissions test and it seems to hold quite true. Make sure that the cam you choose has no overlap degree when using the .050 lift degrees. It's also very benefical to use cams that are of recent design and have the latest quick opening and closing rates so that the overall seat duration numbers are as small as possible. It's also obvious when you start figuring it out, that to keep overlap numbers to a minimum very wide lobe seperation angles are required. That's not neccesarily a bad thing however as this type of cam generally works very well in a street car running a quiet but somewhat resrictive exhaust system, plus they idle much smoother and produce good fuel economy as well as a wide flat powerband. The choices for such a cam are extremely limited though and will most likely require getting a cam custom ground, which by costs a few bucks more but is not a big deal. I'll give you a couple of suggestions starting with the hottest cam that I think would have a decent chance of passing emissions.
Call Crane Cams and ask them to grind one of thier hydraulic H-278-2 grind cams for a 460. That will give you the following specs at .050 lift:
222-234 .539-.534 114 lobe seperation ground with 5 degrees of advance. This cam will have 0 degrees of overlap at .050 lift.
Or you can call Comp Cams and have them grind you a cam using thier #5443 intake lobe and a #5203 exhaust lobe. Ask them to grind the cam with a 115 degree lobe separation and advanced 6 degrees. That will give you the following specs at .050 lift.
224-230 .550-.554 115 lobe separation and a 109 degree intake centerline angle. That cam will give you a negative -3 degrees of overlap at .050 lift.
You can also use a solid lifter cam with success as well. They have the advantage of having a quicker action, especially in the early part of the valve lift which allows a solid cam with similar .050 numbers as a typical hydraulic to have a shorter total valve open time which helps with emission numbers. Comp Cams has recently come out with their Extreme Energy Mechanical Flat Tappet Series of cams which would be excellent if you've got your heart set on a solid cam. They come in lobes that have 218, 224, 230 and 236 degrees at .050 lift. Here are some numbers.
224-236 .550-.578 115 l/s +6 gives 0 degrees overlap at .050.
224-230 .550-.562 115 l/s +6 gives -3 degrees of overlap at .050.
218-230 .536-.562 115 l/s +6 gives -6 degrees of overlap at .050.
218-224 .536-.550 115 l/s +6 gives -9 degrees of overlap at .050.
I hope that helps and gives you something to go on.
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post #12 of 13 (permalink) Old 05-21-2003, 09:59 AM Thread Starter
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solid flat tappet cam ... pass smog?????

Mach1Morgan ... Thanks for the informative and useful information ...

I saved your post to my engine build file. I haven't decided whether to go Hydraulic of Solid. But in either case your input will be valuable.

You have hit the nail on the head, I'd like to be able to run a little "hotter" than stock cam, but whatever cam I choose ... I must be able to pass the sniffer.

Do you think going past zero to the negative value will increase my chances of success at the sniffer or is zero just as good on that count?

Also, would you think one of the hydraulic grinds would improve my chances compared to the solids ... or is that pretty much a none issue as far as smog is concerned?

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[ This Message was edited by: monstermach on 5/23/03 4:47am ]
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post #13 of 13 (permalink) Old 05-22-2003, 02:51 AM
 
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solid flat tappet cam ... pass smog?????

It definetely would be easier to pass a sniffer test with a smaller cam or one had less that 0 degrees of overlap at .050 lift. Smaller is easier and would require less fine tuning to pass. Eventually, if you have a large cam and even if you had some really wide lobe seperation to give it 0 degrees or less of overlap you just won't be able to make it pass because the valve events start encroaching on the combustion stroke. Because a solid lifter cam has a quicker tappet acceleration rate at low lift, they act smaller than a hydraulic lift cam and will actually pass a smog test easier than a hydraulic lifter cam would. There is an added benefit of being able to cheat easily with a solid as well. When you know you've got to go in for a smog test you can temporarily open up the lash about .005 which will shorten up the duration about a few degrees which of course would also help as well.
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