Nine inch housings - Ford Muscle Forums : Ford Muscle Cars Tech Forum
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post #1 of 25 (permalink) Old 05-19-2008, 07:06 PM Thread Starter
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Nine inch housings

Ok well i am in the market for a nine inch for my falcon. Obviously any nine inch i get will most likely need to be shortened and as such i was researching a little about this.

Basically what i found is that 31 spline can be shortened but 28 spline either cant if its early or cant at all. Now is this just the axle shafts and not the housing? Can i run 31 spline axles if the housing originally had 28?

I'm asking because finding a housing isn't the hard part, its knowing if i can shorten it. If all i need to do is get new (made to fit) axle shafts thats no big deal to me but what else should i look for in terms of being able to shorten it.

I'm not too worried about whether its an N case or a War case or what not, i don't plan on running much more if more at all then 300RWHP, but i want to build the car at least somewhat right the first time and have piece of mind when i am driving it that i'm not gonna break something.
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post #2 of 25 (permalink) Old 05-19-2008, 07:54 PM
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Re: Nine inch housings

All 9's can be shortened. The spline count depends on the spool carrier and bearings....someone correct me if im saying this wrong, im no expert. All 9" housings can be shortened and run any spline.

The two types of 9" are small bearing housing and large bearing housings. The large bearing housings require a large bearing brake backing plate, whereas the 9" small bearing housing will utilize 8" brak e backing plates. making the swap easier.

Im building my 9" right now, I found a 69 mustang housing and I relocated the spring perches and put in 31 spline mosiers, with a 31 spine posi carrier. Good to go.

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post #3 of 25 (permalink) Old 05-19-2008, 08:58 PM
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Re: Nine inch housings

Both the 8 and 9 inch housings can be narrowed , WhaT is ment by not being able to narrow them is the Axels on the early 8 and 9 inch rears can not be re-splined because the axel tapers to small to except the new spline . I have had some axels re-splined and had hardening problems with them , some were to soft some were brittle.
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post #4 of 25 (permalink) Old 05-19-2008, 11:12 PM
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Re: Nine inch housings

If I was building a light car like a falcon I would go with a 8.8 they can built to handle nearly as much power as a 9" but do not take take as hp to turn. A 8.8 will take 300rwhp with ease. If your set on a 9" any housing can be shortened and you can get custom lenght axles made for around $300.00.

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Last edited by 347LX; 05-19-2008 at 11:16 PM.
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post #5 of 25 (permalink) Old 05-20-2008, 02:40 AM
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Re: Nine inch housings

I run stock replacement 31 spline Mustang axles in my 59' 9" rear that originally had 28" spline axles. No problems what-so-ever.

Dennis

65' Stang Street/Strip. Dart 434W NA, Victor heads, G101A 4 Spd, 4:56 rear gear, on 93 octane pushing 3550lbs. [email protected]
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post #6 of 25 (permalink) Old 05-20-2008, 04:15 AM
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Re: Nine inch housings

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Originally Posted by dennis111 View Post
I run stock replacement 31 spline Mustang axles in my 59' 9" rear that originally had 28" spline axles. No problems what-so-ever.
Stock replacements?

1965-66 mustang width housings never came with 31 spline axles. Back before I got smart and ordered some Moser axles, I used a set that were made from stockers. One was cut down and re-splined, and the other had to have the big end changed around somehow. The big end of one of the axles broke off at the starting line, and the entire wheel fell off. Luckily, the car had a spool at the time, so it spun around sideways (running over the photo-cells at the starting line) and didn't land on the tire and ruin the quarter panel.

Ford never made 31 spline axles that length. Exactly what axles are you running, and where did you get them? Are they not made by Moser, Strange, etc?

Thanks
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post #7 of 25 (permalink) Old 05-20-2008, 08:06 AM
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Re: Nine inch housings

My advice for switching to a 9 is always the same - buy a housing built to your required dimensions. By the time you hunt up one, get it cut, buy ends and have them welded and then locate the spring perches - you'll have nearly the same money in it. And the bought piece will have better tubes and center than anything you'll fish out of the scrap yard. The just buy axles that fit the housing - Moser, MW, Strange all make affordable 28 and 31 spline units that will put up with a lot of abuse. FWIW, the Mustang has about 320 RWHP and I used a housing made by Currie with the small ends on it. The stock brakes bolted right up and I stuck the stock 28 spline axles out of the 8" back in it. they are on their second year of weekly drag racing with no signs of fatigue.




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post #8 of 25 (permalink) Old 05-20-2008, 03:04 PM
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Re: Nine inch housings

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Originally Posted by n2omike View Post
Stock replacements?

1965-66 mustang width housings never came with 31 spline axles. Back before I got smart and ordered some Moser axles, I used a set that were made from stockers. One was cut down and re-splined, and the other had to have the big end changed around somehow. The big end of one of the axles broke off at the starting line, and the entire wheel fell off. Luckily, the car had a spool at the time, so it spun around sideways (running over the photo-cells at the starting line) and didn't land on the tire and ruin the quarter panel.

Ford never made 31 spline axles that length. Exactly what axles are you running, and where did you get them? Are they not made by Moser, Strange, etc?

Thanks
OK, Ford never made a 31 spline axles for early Mustangs. Maybe it was all advertising gibberish or I misunderstood, but Superior listed them as Stock 31 spline replacements on their website. They are thicker than Mustang 28 spline axles and have no taper.

At the time I needed a set of 31 axles ASAP and purchased the Superiors through Summit since they were in stock. Called Summit on Tuesday, Shipped on Wednesday, Received and pressed bearings/wheel studs onto axle and axle into housing on Thursday, Raced on Friday.

I love it when a plan comes together.

Summit lists them as direct replacements:

Superior Axle and Gear PA6070B - Superior Axle and Gear Production Series Axle Shafts - summitracing.com

Superior Axle and Gear PA6070A - Superior Axle and Gear Production Series Axle Shafts - summitracing.com

Dennis

65' Stang Street/Strip. Dart 434W NA, Victor heads, G101A 4 Spd, 4:56 rear gear, on 93 octane pushing 3550lbs. [email protected]

Last edited by dennis111; 05-20-2008 at 03:10 PM.
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post #9 of 25 (permalink) Old 05-20-2008, 03:42 PM
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Re: Nine inch housings

Cool. Just because they aren't an OEM replacement, doesn't mean they can't be a direct fit!

Those of you looking for a 9" housing should definitely consider going to the aftermarket. Last I checked, they were just a tad over $300. 57-59 Ford housings are awefully weak and are prone to get bent/warped. (been there, done that) Small bearing housings (all 8" and many 28 spline 9") can't use a conventional axle seal with 31 spline axles, so they have to use a bearing with an O-ring around its outside diameter to seal the oil. (it's wise to order extra o-rings) If a conventional seal is desired, a person has to step up to housing ends made for larger bearings... but then different brake backing plates are needed, as the plates for small bearings won't work.

Good Luck!
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post #10 of 25 (permalink) Old 05-20-2008, 03:58 PM
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Re: Nine inch housings

My 9-inch was out of a 80's vintage Granada and was the correct width. Both the Ford Granada and Lincoln Versailles used a 9-inch rearend.

It did have the tapered axles so when the time came to narrow it I had to buy new axles so I went with Currie myself. They were around $400 for the pair.

I also swapped with big bearing ends at the time and went with their rear disc brake kit.


'65 Falcon Futura 347 stroker. Comp roller cam, 10.8:1, RPM intake, 750 DP, AFR185's, C4, 9-inch https://www.fordmuscleforums.com/gara...ehicle_id=1106
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post #11 of 25 (permalink) Old 05-20-2008, 04:19 PM
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Re: Nine inch housings

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Originally Posted by 65FalconLover View Post
My 9-inch was out of a 80's vintage Granada and was the correct width. Both the Ford Granada and Lincoln Versailles used a 9-inch rearend.
The VAST majority of granadas came with 8" rears, so you got lucky!

The Lincoln Versailles had the old, HEAVY, troublesome, expensive rear disks. There are FAR better setups nowadays, so it's good to hear you used a standard rear and stepped up to some better brakes.

Good Luck!

ps... I've had the stock 8" housing, two 57-59 Ford housings, and finally the Currie housing under the mustang.

I've used the following 8" gear ratios... 2.80, 3.40 and 3.55.

I've used the following 9" ratios... 3.00, 3.25, 3.50, 3.70, 3.89, 4.11, 4.30, 4.33, 4.56, 4.57, and 4.86

These have been used with open carrier, 2-pinion trac-locs, 4-pinion trac locs, Detroit locker and spool diffs. The 2-pinion units are weak, the 4-pinion are surprisingly strong, the DL is super tough, and the spool will pinch the tubes in slicks and street slicks when driven daily around town. Trac-locs will smoke the clutches and turn into basically 'open' diffs if one tire is spun too hard much at all.

The 57-59 9" axles are very tapered and extremely weak. The 65-66 8" mustang axles are far stronger. The 'home made' 31 spline axles are a little stronger, but not trustworthy. Aftermarket 31 spline axles have held up to everything I've dished out so far... as has the Detroit Locker and OEM Ford 'N' case/Daytona pinion support.

Good Luck!
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post #12 of 25 (permalink) Old 05-20-2008, 04:41 PM
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Re: Nine inch housings

Quote:
Originally Posted by n2omike View Post
57-59 Ford housings are awefully weak and are prone to get bent/warped. (been there, done that) Small bearing housings (all 8" and many 28 spline 9") can't use a conventional axle seal with 31 spline axles, so they have to use a bearing with an O-ring around its outside diameter to seal the oil. If a conventional seal is desired, a person has to step up to housing ends made for larger bearings...

Good Luck!
Just a note, the Superior axles that I installed in my 59' housing use conventional bearings and axle seals. It used a stock Mustang wheel bearing (not included with the axles) and the 59' axle seals which have a larger OD than a Mustang seal. I believe the same axle seal was used in mid-60's 9" Fairlanes and Galaxies too.

I agree with Mike that unless you get the 57-59 rear for little or nothing, it is best to start with an aftermarket housing and fill it with good parts. I've had mine installed since the mid-80's and so far the housing and the WAR case have held together just fine, but I do not run a power adder and am probably living on borrowed time.

Dennis

65' Stang Street/Strip. Dart 434W NA, Victor heads, G101A 4 Spd, 4:56 rear gear, on 93 octane pushing 3550lbs. [email protected]

Last edited by dennis111; 05-20-2008 at 04:44 PM.
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post #13 of 25 (permalink) Old 05-20-2008, 04:49 PM
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Re: Nine inch housings

Quote:
Originally Posted by dennis111 View Post
Just a note, the Superior axles that I installed in my 59' housing use conventional bearings and axle seals. It used a stock Mustang wheel bearing (not included with the axles) and the 59' axle seals which have a larger OD than a Mustang seal. I believe the same axle seal was used in mid-60's 9" Fairlanes and Galaxies too.
I'd be curious to know what the measurements are on those axles at the seal, or the part number of the seal. Some axles are bigger than others right there. From memory, the Mosers are pretty big in that area, and I don't see how there would be room for a seal... but one would be nice (compared to the o-ring). I'll have to look at mine closer next time they are out.

Neat info
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post #14 of 25 (permalink) Old 05-21-2008, 05:19 AM
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Re: Nine inch housings

Quote:
Originally Posted by n2omike View Post
I'd be curious to know what the measurements are on those axles at the seal, or the part number of the seal. Some axles are bigger than others right there. From memory, the Mosers are pretty big in that area, and I don't see how there would be room for a seal... but one would be nice (compared to the o-ring). I'll have to look at mine closer next time they are out.

Neat info
My axles, being direct replacements, have the beefier, non tapered, axle stubs and 31 splines and yet use stock type bearings and seals. The axles just barely pass through the seal and they spread it lips slightly on the way in. These were originally spec'ed for a 65/66 Mustang but fit great in the 57/59 small bearing housing. Your upgraded Mosers (and other custom performance manufacturers) most probably build them beefier in all areas and this necessitates the O-ring and special bearing.

Anyways, here are some dimensions that I have from old notes when I installed these axles in my 57-59 small bearing housing.

Seal part #'s Original Ford B7A-1177-B which later became a C9OZ-1177-A. Aftermarket equivalent is a National 9568. Another good # is 62320, but unknown which manufacturer (I assume its CR.)
--Axle diameter that the seal rides on: 1.360"
--OD of seal : 2.373"
Note to others: This is not the correct seal for a 8" Mustang housing. The ID is the same, but the early 57-59' housing uses a larger OD seal.

Bearing is standard 65/66 Mustang 8" stuff. The one I used is a Federal Mogul (BCA) RW-207-CCRA
--ID of bearing: 1.380"
--OD of bearing: 2.285"

Dennis

65' Stang Street/Strip. Dart 434W NA, Victor heads, G101A 4 Spd, 4:56 rear gear, on 93 octane pushing 3550lbs. [email protected]

Last edited by dennis111; 05-21-2008 at 05:26 AM.
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post #15 of 25 (permalink) Old 05-21-2008, 05:42 AM
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Re: Nine inch housings

Thanks Dennis!
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