1969 351w build advice needed for a novice - Ford Muscle Forums : Ford Muscle Cars Tech Forum
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post #1 of 22 (permalink) Old 11-28-2010, 09:06 AM Thread Starter
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1969 351w build advice needed for a novice

First time poster and a novice when it comes to this stuff so be gentle (very nice forum by the way).

In a few weeks I will be in possession of a stock 1969 Torino, 351w, 2v, C-4 tranny, 9 inch rear, A/C car. I’m looking to have it built into a strictly street (I will never be on a track/strip) light to light type car. I’ll drive it on the weekends maybe back and forth to work on occasion etc. So I guess you could consider it a daily driver with (hopefully) some balls. My goals are pump gas and LOW MAINTENCE (I don’t want to have to adjust/tune something every weekend). I'd like it to sound like it's had work done but I don't want it to be obnoxious. The air conditioner has already been removed and I don’t plan on putting it back on. I live in NE so emissions etc. are not an issue. Before I found the forum I had planned on just using Edelbrocks Performer parts but after a little research it looks like a lot of people don’t like their cams so this is what I’ve come up with.

HEADS - Stock heads (basic rebuild as the car has been sitting a while)

INTAKE - Edelbrock Performer #2181

CARB – Edelbrock Performer 600cfm #1405

CAM – either a Comp 268H or XE262H not sure which to go with?

IGNITION – Davis DUI distributor #35829

REAREND – I’m thinking 3.73’s (are Currie rearends decent.. being stock I doubt it has posi and I'll need to fix that)

TRANSMISSION – C-4 stock??

CRANK - stock

EXHAUST - Headers not sure on type to use (Currently column shift but plan on moving it to the floor)

I assume I’ll need a new timing chain so I plan on getting comps kit package but what about fuel pump oil pump etc…. stock items??

Any advice on pushrods/rockers etc. or should I just go with the complete kit comp cams sells and call it good?

I like a torque feel and since I plan on using the stock heads I don’t expect to get high RPMS out of it 5000-5500 top thats why I've listed the Performer vs Performer RPM manifold does this sound right??

I’ll never take it to a track but for an idea of what I could compete with what would a mile estimate be on a setup like this?

I apologize in advance as I know similar questions have been asked several times in the forum but most of those talk about aftermarket heads or boring stroking etc. My goal is to keep it fairly strait forward and simple as I know very little about it and don’t have the time/knowledge for something that requires a lot of upkeep.

Thanks, I look forward to your input/suggestions/criticism

Last edited by 1969torino; 11-28-2010 at 09:11 AM.
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post #2 of 22 (permalink) Old 11-28-2010, 10:32 AM
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Re: 1969 351w build advice needed for a novice

Sounds like a good plan you have in place..I am not a fan of the big chevy style distributor in the front of a ford engine but that is strictly from a looks point of view...I would also consider a bit of a stall convertor if you want good off the line acceleration..With a mild torque oriented build like yours something around a 2500 rpm stall would work great with a shift kit in the trans...


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post #3 of 22 (permalink) Old 11-28-2010, 02:33 PM Thread Starter
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Re: 1969 351w build advice needed for a novice

Frdnut thanks for the response.
I'm not 100% on the dui I'll do a little more research but I've heard good things about them (other than appearance) Stall/torque converters are something I'm totaly clueless on. I know the cam has a direct impact on what type of converter you want. What do you think about B&M's holeshot 2400 #50412 along with the B&M stage 2 shift kit #50260 is this what you had in mind? Do you have any idea how that would work with comps 268H or XE262H cam with the 351w??

thanks again
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post #4 of 22 (permalink) Old 11-28-2010, 04:04 PM
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Re: 1969 351w build advice needed for a novice

want a quite valvetrain ? go with the 268H if you do
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post #5 of 22 (permalink) Old 11-28-2010, 06:08 PM
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Re: 1969 351w build advice needed for a novice

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Originally Posted by DanH View Post
want a quite valvetrain ? go with the 268H if you do
Yep, stay away from the XE comp cams, not worth the worries.

I also agree on going with a better torque converter - I personally like the Hughes 2500 for street cars that want a noticable improvement off the line. Good quality for a reasonable price.

I also advise AGAINST any sort of cam "package", as most of them are... well, not what you REALLY want! Let your machine shop set up the heads to match the cam you choose, and your shop will most likely NOT like the parts that come in a "kit". For a timing chain, check out Summit or Jegs, and their "house" brands are typically the same as the "name" brands, but much cheaper.

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post #6 of 22 (permalink) Old 11-28-2010, 06:32 PM
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Re: 1969 351w build advice needed for a novice

With a heavy vehicle and an auto trans a little extra displacement is usually a good thing. A 393 or 408W can be built for the same price as a 351W.
Are you sure you have a C4?

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post #7 of 22 (permalink) Old 11-28-2010, 07:22 PM
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Re: 1969 351w build advice needed for a novice

Yes the 268h will work perfect with the 9.1 compression and stock valvetrain, 1 5/8 headers, you wont need a stall converter and 3.50 gears will be adequate, I would run a weiand steath intake or performer RPM, get your self a die grinder and port match the exhaust if you are going with stock heads. If you are buying new pistons then buy a 3.85 stroker crank and some dished 302 pistons and keep compression around 9.1, use your stock rods (393) and you will have great low end TQ. The stroker setup will get you about 40 ft lbs and 20-30hp over the stock 351w with the 268h cam the low end TQ will be very strong. It wont be a real performance engine but will be strong in the low and mid rpm but poop out about 4500. But will be fuel efficient.

Last edited by htwheelz67; 11-28-2010 at 07:34 PM.
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post #8 of 22 (permalink) Old 11-28-2010, 09:56 PM Thread Starter
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Re: 1969 351w build advice needed for a novice

Thanks for all the replies of course it's raised more questions.

first of all Brian as sad as this is no I'm not 100% sure it's a C-4 I'll know more in a couple weeks.

L n L thanks for the pm I've tried replying to it twice but each time I hit submit it tells me I'm not signed in (I've signed in both times) I'll get it figured out... I'll mention part of what I was trying to send here. You mentioned the Holley carb being easier to tune than the Edelbrock I've heard the exact opposite that's why I chose the Edelbrock, of course I can't speak from experience so looks like I'll have to check out the Holley's again.

Thanks for the heads up on the XE cams looks like I'll be going with the 268H.

htwheelz67 you mentioned the Performer RPM, you think that would be better than the plain Performer considering I plan on running the stock heads?? Do you think going steeper with the gears (3.70's) would hurt performance? I'm looking for something with plenty of torque... the push you into your seat feel.

some say stall converter others say no converter... I'll have to look into this more.

I told myself I would stay away from the strokers as I'm trying to keep the build as strait forward as possible and wanted to stick with the stock crank if it's still in good shape.

Thanks again guys keep the suggestions coming I'm particularly interested in the Performer vs Performer RPM using stock 69 351w heads and the 268H cam
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post #9 of 22 (permalink) Old 11-28-2010, 11:44 PM
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Re: 1969 351w build advice needed for a novice

I'm happy with the XE cam in my 351W, it runs well and sounds nice. This build sounds an awful lot like mine, stock long block with the stock heads rebuilt and set up with parts to match the cam. We used the complete kit from Comp and Magnum roller tip rockers and Magnum push rods. I just used a Performer intake and a Holley Street Avenger carb. I also kept the stock distributor and installed a Pertronix Ignitor II module. You definitely want new oil, water and fuel pumps and timing set. You can get a high volume oil pump if you wish, but standard should be fine.
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1970 XL, 351W originally 2V, now 4V
670 Street Avenger, Edlebrock Performer intake, Comp XE262H, Flowtech Headers
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post #10 of 22 (permalink) Old 11-29-2010, 06:59 AM
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Re: 1969 351w build advice needed for a novice

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1969torino View Post
I'm not 100% sure it's a C-4 I'll know more in a couple weeks.
I'm betting you'll discover it has 15 pan bolts.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1969torino View Post
Do you think going steeper with the gears (3.70's) would hurt performance? I'm looking for something with plenty of torque... the push you into your seat feel.
I have 3.70s in my XY Falcon and they're hard to live with without having an OD trans. If you want plenty of torque, stroking is the cheapest/easiest way to get it. The 393W htwheelz67 described is very simple.

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post #11 of 22 (permalink) Old 11-29-2010, 08:55 AM Thread Starter
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Re: 1969 351w build advice needed for a novice

BrianS -

thanks for the warning on the gears, I do want to be able to drive it to work on occasion wich could possibly mean highway speeds so maybe I will reconsider that ratio... I was going off of a big block chevy I used to have (396) that had 3.90's and I loved it although I was 18 at the time... loooong time ago. I'll have to check that tranny... just got word this morning the car is in town so I'll try to get out there this weekend.

70XL-

what grind XE are you using?? What gears are you running?

are the roller tipped rockers the way to go with a hydraulic flat tappet?
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post #12 of 22 (permalink) Old 11-29-2010, 09:08 AM
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Re: 1969 351w build advice needed for a novice

Roller tips are nice, but since you're not limited by class (and maby a little bit by budget) you might as well go full roller rockers in order to free up a bit of frictional resistance/power as well as reducing strain on valve train components. As for the converter, might as well have the tranny rebuild with at least an 1800-2000 stall converter as it will really make a big difference in how the car runs (you'll REALLY like it).

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post #13 of 22 (permalink) Old 11-29-2010, 10:01 AM
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Re: 1969 351w build advice needed for a novice

Quote:
Originally Posted by DanH View Post
want a quite valvetrain ? go with the 268H if you do
Could you elaborate a bit on that comment? I wasn't aware that the XE series was noisy. Any other problems with the XE's? I am considering using an XE in a future build. Thanks
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post #14 of 22 (permalink) Old 11-29-2010, 01:51 PM
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Re: 1969 351w build advice needed for a novice

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1969torino View Post
BrianS -

70XL-

what grind XE are you using?? What gears are you running?

are the roller tipped rockers the way to go with a hydraulic flat tappet?
It is a XE262, check my Sig line. I'm just running the original gears, which I think are 2.73's. I have a WER rear end, so gear changes are more difficult, and I want to be able to run it for longer distances on the highway. I did get a new torque converter for my trans, around 2200 RPM, I believe. A little more rear gear would be nice, but it is way low on my priority list. Shorter gears and an overdrive trans would be ideal.

The rocker arms don't care what type of lifters you have. Roller tip rockers are "better" than the original non-roller, but full roller rockers are better than roller tip. Does it make any real difference in a stock type rebuild? Probably not much, certainly not likely to be noticable. I used them because the friend who was helping me with this project could get parts wholesale and because I wasn't paying for labour I could afford better parts.

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post #15 of 22 (permalink) Old 11-29-2010, 02:16 PM
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Re: 1969 351w build advice needed for a novice

Quote:
Originally Posted by firehorse5_0 View Post
Could you elaborate a bit on that comment? I wasn't aware that the XE series was noisy. Any other problems with the XE's? I am considering using an XE in a future build. Thanks
XE's use an aggressive profile. One of the downsides of an aggressive profile is wear. This is MORE of a problem with cars with heavier valvetrains, like most big blocks and Pontiac motors.

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