Newbie question about install difficulty C4 versus AOD? - Ford Muscle Forums : Ford Muscle Cars Tech Forum
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post #1 of 16 (permalink) Old 04-29-2007, 09:50 AM Thread Starter
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Newbie question about install difficulty C4 versus AOD?

I have a manual tranny behind a 240 I6 (SBF bell pattern). Looking to put a C4 or AOD behind it. Bell will be no trouble and I will run a Lokar Nostalgia Shifter up through my floor, also reputed to be a simple approach.

The AOD has a throttle kick down that I know of, and it is reported to be critical to get things set correctly. I dislike that aspect of the AOD a lot. I want an automatic set up that is almost as idiot proof as the old manual tranny has been.

I have just a plain old 1bbl carter YF carb, and it doen't have the anti-stall mechanism. I don't know much about getting carbs to work correctly with automatic trannies.

Could any of you fellows enlighten me, or send me in the right direction as to the sorts of trouble I will have with getting my C4 to work with my carb/engine? C4 has a vacuum hookup, right? Throttle kick down as well?

Thanks.....

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<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: cdherman on 4/30/07 12:52am ]</font>
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post #2 of 16 (permalink) Old 04-29-2007, 03:41 PM
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Newbie question about install difficulty C4 versus AOD?


The easiest would be a C4 as there is no need for a throttle pressure rod.
The C4 uses that same setup but for kick down or passing gear mainly and is not really mandatory whereas an OAD without one will self destruct in a few miles.
To get this connection to work properly you will have to either change the carb or Mickey Mouse something to fit.
You must make sure the crank will accept the convertor pilot.
Some do some don't.
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post #3 of 16 (permalink) Old 04-30-2007, 03:11 PM
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Newbie question about install difficulty C4 versus AOD?

what if he uses a manual vb shifter? it would take that whole vacuum line out of the equation.
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post #4 of 16 (permalink) Old 04-30-2007, 03:38 PM
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Newbie question about install difficulty C4 versus AOD?

GO with the C4. I have seen AODs burn up in 3 blocks if not set right.
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post #5 of 16 (permalink) Old 04-30-2007, 04:07 PM Thread Starter
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Newbie question about install difficulty C4 versus AOD?

I have also recently heard that the AOD is also heavier and slightly more parasitic in terms of power consumption. So I have pretty much ruled it out.

What about the other question I had -- about the anti-stall pot on the carb (or lack thereof). What happens when you run a automatic tranny with a carb that was setup for a manual tranny?

Thanks for your responses so far.....

1965 F100 240 C4 Autolite 1101, Pertronix Ignitor II
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post #6 of 16 (permalink) Old 05-01-2007, 05:49 AM
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Newbie question about install difficulty C4 versus AOD?

Nothing will happen with the carb other than having no kd connection.
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post #7 of 16 (permalink) Old 05-01-2007, 08:19 AM
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Newbie question about install difficulty C4 versus AOD?

None of the hot rods here have any sort of dashpot on the carbs.





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post #8 of 16 (permalink) Old 05-01-2007, 11:10 AM Thread Starter
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Newbie question about install difficulty C4 versus AOD?

OK, so those rods may not have any antistall feature on the carb. But there must have been a reason why Fomoco put them on orignally, right?

My truck is not much of a hot rod, and the last thing I need is for it to die in traffic whenever I slow down, or worse, tear up the tranny through some mechanism that I am unaware of.

Thanks for putting up with me fellas -- I know this is more of a high tech forum and I am clearly a newbie. I do appreciate it!!!

1965 F100 240 C4 Autolite 1101, Pertronix Ignitor II
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post #9 of 16 (permalink) Old 05-01-2007, 11:54 AM
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Newbie question about install difficulty C4 versus AOD?

Rods - you mean the kickdown linkage probably. Yes, that's needed unless the trans has a manual valve body. A good alternative is to use items from Lokar. Using their cable setup and carb bracket gives you an adjustable kickdown and return spring mounting.

Unless your converter is way too "tight" or there is some other problem, all the normal carbs work fine with an auto trans.





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post #10 of 16 (permalink) Old 05-01-2007, 01:06 PM Thread Starter
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Newbie question about install difficulty C4 versus AOD?

By "rods" I meant "hot rods" as opposed to kickdown linkage. In terms of antistall dashpot on the carb, I don't understand why most carbs used to come with antistall features if they are not necessary. Maybe they are not so necessary????

Suffice to say, my carb doesn't have one and that worries me. My engine is a lowly 240 I6 with a 1bbl carb.
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post #11 of 16 (permalink) Old 05-01-2007, 02:28 PM
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Newbie question about install difficulty C4 versus AOD?

A Google search returns a possible answer:

Holley carb manual

"10. THE DASHPOT

A dashpot is incorporated on Mercury vehicles fitted with automatic transmissions or power brakes. The dashpot is an anti-stall device. It prevents the engine being loaded when the accelerator pedal is depressed suddenly and then released. It accomplishes this by slowing the closing rate of the throttle as it approaches the idle position. This allows the engine to dissipate the raw fuel discharged into the intake manifold by the accelerating pump."

Holley 1904 Manual
Says the same thing
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<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: ckelly on 5/2/07 5:32am ]</font>



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post #12 of 16 (permalink) Old 05-02-2007, 03:58 AM
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Newbie question about install difficulty C4 versus AOD?

There is no need for a kd linkage if you go with a C4 transmission.
It is nice but not mandatory, unlike the AOD.
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post #13 of 16 (permalink) Old 05-02-2007, 04:00 PM
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Newbie question about install difficulty C4 versus AOD?

The "kick-down" linkage adjusts throttle pressure to your load as well as shifting down to a lower gear at its extreme limits. If you shift you transmission manually you by-pass the need for the extra throttle pressure because manual shifting raises the throttle pressure in the transmission. If you are letting the transmission shift automatically then you do need the kick-down linkage in working order.
Ford wouldn't have put it there if it wasn't necessary - think of the millions of dollars that they could save by omiting it. It is necessary to the proper workings of the C4 automatic transmission.
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post #14 of 16 (permalink) Old 05-02-2007, 05:42 PM
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Newbie question about install difficulty C4 versus AOD?

You can drive until hell freezes over without a kd rod on a C4 or C6 transmission and nothing bad will happen.

Yes it does raise the shift points a bit but then so does stomping the pedal to the metal.

It's main objective is passing gear.

I quote from a factory manual.

" The kick down system should come in when the accelerator pedal is pressed through detent, not before."

If you look at the set up on a vehicle and watch as the accelerator pedal is applied you will notice the kick down does not become activated until the pedal is pushed better than 3/4.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Stuarta on 5/3/07 8:43am ]</font>
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post #15 of 16 (permalink) Old 05-02-2007, 07:12 PM Thread Starter
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Newbie question about install difficulty C4 versus AOD?

OK, finer point as to whether the kd is necessary or not. Suffice to say, I won't fry the tranny if I run it without the kd or have it mis-adjusted for a while.

The truck is a pretty well perfect restored truck that my dad bought when I was 6 months old. It will stay in the family doubtless for decades, and perhaps after I am no longer able or willing to mess much with tuning or settings. So I am looking to make it user friendly. A C4 sounds like a pretty simple setup.

Thanks fella's.

1965 F100 240 C4 Autolite 1101, Pertronix Ignitor II
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