Tranny Year and starter problems???!!! - Ford Muscle Forums : Ford Muscle Cars Tech Forum
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post #1 of 19 (permalink) Old 05-13-2010, 11:11 PM Thread Starter
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Tranny Year and starter problems???!!!

2 Questions

1.What year tranny is this?
Metal Tag reads: PEE C L20B DS2P DA
Side of trannt reads: C6AP 7D027 C

Now I believe this gives me two different years. What do I go by?

2. The starter wont engage with my flywheel and makes a terrible grinding noise. I went and bought another starter and it makes the same noise.(This chipped one of the teeth on the starter) It will grab sometimes but after a while it just makes the noise constantly. What could be the issues? Very frustrated!


Thanks
Dan
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post #2 of 19 (permalink) Old 05-14-2010, 01:18 AM
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Re: Tranny Year and starter problems???!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by danjames4 View Post
2 Questions

1.What year tranny is this?
Metal Tag reads: PEE C L20B DS2P DA
Side of trannt reads: C6AP 7D027 C

Now I believe this gives me two different years. What do I go by?

2. The starter wont engage with my flywheel and makes a terrible grinding noise. I went and bought another starter and it makes the same noise.(This chipped one of the teeth on the starter) It will grab sometimes but after a while it just makes the noise constantly. What could be the issues? Very frustrated!


Thanks
Dan
1. Tag is only thing that can determine year. And that is assuming that no one has swapped tags. You have incorrectly transcribed the information from your tag.

Side of case reads C6AP-7006-AA or something similar with 7006 ALWAYS being part of the number. 7006 = Transmission case in Ford lingo.

2. Are you sure you have the correct flexplate? Correct bell housing? Correct starter? If any of them are incorrect you destroy one or more of them until the problem is fixed.

mmerlinn (http://mmerlinn.com) -- "Careless and sloppy writers are usually also careless and sloppy at thinking. Answering questions for careless and sloppy thinkers is not rewarding." - Eric Raymond

Last edited by mmerlinn; 05-14-2010 at 01:22 AM.
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post #3 of 19 (permalink) Old 05-14-2010, 06:36 AM
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Re: Tranny Year and starter problems???!!!

It's pretty much confined to 1967 Galaxie made in April of 1967.

I think your flywheel is too small or maybe the teeth on it are broken...

Need more info to help further.
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post #4 of 19 (permalink) Old 05-14-2010, 11:09 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Tranny Year and starter problems???!!!

Ya I looked yesterday and the flywheel doesn't seemed to be damaged. Could it be on backwards??? Ill take a look tomorrow and double check that there is no flywheel damage. Im pretty sure it's the right starter. I have two. One that came with the engine and a reproduction one. Both make that sickly noise when I try and turn it over.
Dan
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post #5 of 19 (permalink) Old 05-14-2010, 11:14 PM
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Re: Tranny Year and starter problems???!!!

Count the number of teeth on the gear. (ring gear not the starter)
You may have a mis-matched flex plate and bell housing.

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post #6 of 19 (permalink) Old 05-15-2010, 09:49 AM
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Re: Tranny Year and starter problems???!!!

On flywheel is 157 teeth count. The other is 164 teeth count. Obviously the 164 teeth flywheel is larger in diameter.

If the starter teeth is chipped on the front side---the end in which it would be the first to engage the flywheel, it may be the starter you have is for a manual trans, of if you have a manual trans, the starter you have may be for a auto. I think the starter nose is longer for each of those trans. The flywheels, of course for either the manual or auto is diffrent but the manual flywheel has to take into consideration the thickness of the clutch and may put the flywheel teeth to the rear slightly enough for Ford to make a different starter for that application. Don't go by what the parts guy says: he is there to sell you something to you--not something that is correct. There are 2 starters for the manual & auto trans.

I believe the length of the starter "throw" on the starter shaft, done by a fork inside the starter that is captured by the starter drive, is dictated by the length of the starter shaft as it runs and ends at the nose end.

Try to turn the flywheel by hand (from the crankshaft) and see if the flywheel runs true and not wobble. If so, the flywheel was put in binding somewhere. Is there a tourque distrubuton ring on th flywheel? It is a round ring that the flywheel bolts bolt through to secure the flywheel to the crank. Did the convertor go into the hole in the crankshaft without binding? You can mount the converter and trans and the convertor is NOT fully seated against the flywheel and the crankshaft hole. Did that & couldn't figure why I was having so much trouble w/the trans. As a rough guide, the touque convertor studs to flywheel when tightened should show / expose about 1 1/2 threads (maybe more if the convertor is aftermarket) of the convertor stud after tightening. If less, something is wrong

I am looking at 2 Ford starters I have for my 64 falcon 289 that i bought when I have both an auto and a manual trans & one is longer ( the nose) than the other.

Last edited by falconguy52; 05-15-2010 at 09:55 AM. Reason: spelling
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post #7 of 19 (permalink) Old 05-15-2010, 10:43 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Tranny Year and starter problems???!!!

Ya when i went into napa the guy compared about 4 starters with mine. 3 were roughly the same but there was one with a longer nose but the shaft that the starter gear was on was the same. I have an auto trans. Does the longer nose make a difference? How so? As for the teeth count Ill go and count them now.
Thanks
Dan
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post #8 of 19 (permalink) Old 05-15-2010, 12:14 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Tranny Year and starter problems???!!!

The tag reads pee cc L2OB D52P DA which from this site 1973-1979 Ford Car Transmission Application Chart - FORDification.net tells me it's a 75-76 mustang c4 302 tranny. However the case reads c6ap, which states that it is a 66 tranny. So does this mean it's a 75-76 c4 with a 66 case? I'm very confused,
my bellhousing is 5 7/8 long which means its a small housing???
Quote:
Originally Posted by mmerlinn View Post
1. Tag is only thing that can determine year. And that is assuming that no one has swapped tags. You have incorrectly transcribed the information from your tag.

Side of case reads C6AP-7006-AA or something similar with 7006 ALWAYS being part of the number. 7006 = Transmission case in Ford lingo.

2. Are you sure you have the correct flexplate? Correct bell housing? Correct starter? If any of them are incorrect you destroy one or more of them until the problem is fixed.
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post #9 of 19 (permalink) Old 05-15-2010, 12:55 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Tranny Year and starter problems???!!!

Flex plate has a 141 toothcount and is in poor condition, found worn out areas! So I guess its time for a new one.
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post #10 of 19 (permalink) Old 05-15-2010, 04:20 PM
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Re: Tranny Year and starter problems???!!!

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Originally Posted by danjames4 View Post
Flex plate has a 141 toothcount and is in poor condition, found worn out areas! So I guess its time for a new one.
It is time for the correct flexplate. You need to have one that fits your application - ie: the bell housing and the flexplate must match because the starter mounts to the bell and there is a difference between the bells.
If this is on a V-8 then you need either 157 or 164 tooth gear. If this is on a six then you need to match the gear with what you have.
Good luck.

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post #11 of 19 (permalink) Old 05-15-2010, 05:21 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Tranny Year and starter problems???!!!

Ya I figured this was the issue. One last question. Will I need a new bell housing because it's a small mustang II housing and it will not be large enough for the 157 or 163 tooth count?
Thanks for the replies. Helps a ton!
Dan
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post #12 of 19 (permalink) Old 05-17-2010, 10:02 AM
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Re: Tranny Year and starter problems???!!!

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Originally Posted by danjames4 View Post
However the case reads c6ap, which states that it is a 66 tranny. So does this mean it's a 75-76 c4 with a 66 case?
No. C6AP only indicates that the case was originally designed for a 66.

Furthermore, it is impossible for a C6AP case to work in anything after 1969 UNLESS you have a convoluted mess of a transmission. C6AP cases used an 8-bolt valve body. Most 1970 & 1971 and ALL cases after 1971 used a 9-bolt valve body. Also, all early cases used a screw-in modulator and ALL cases after 1971 used push-in modulators. In addition, cases before 1970 had the vent in the side of the case, while later cases did not have any vent in the case.

Quote:
Originally Posted by danjames4 View Post
Flex plate has a 141 toothcount and is in poor condition, found worn out areas! So I guess its time for a new one.
141T fits 75-79 Mustang II V8 only and so does the matching bell housing. If you had a Mustang II starter, it would probably work assuming bell is correct for the flexplate. However, I am not sure of the wisdom of retaining that combination in your vehicle.

If you change the flexplate, you need to change the bell and block plate.

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post #13 of 19 (permalink) Old 05-17-2010, 06:00 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Tranny Year and starter problems???!!!

Ya it looks like there is a mish mash of parts on this tranny. The case is actually a 74 d4dp-7006-aa. The bellhousing and flywheel are from a 78 mustang II. The round thing on the side (dont't know what its called) is a 66. It's a 68 302 in a 67 mustang. What starter would you recommend>?
Thanks
Dan
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post #14 of 19 (permalink) Old 05-17-2010, 10:05 PM
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Re: Tranny Year and starter problems???!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by danjames4 View Post
Ya it looks like there is a mish mash of parts on this tranny. The case is actually a 74 d4dp-7006-aa. The bellhousing and flywheel are from a 78 mustang II. The round thing on the side (dont't know what its called) is a 66. It's a 68 302 in a 67 mustang. What starter would you recommend>?
Thanks
Dan
The red is not a mish-mash based on your information. If you look closer you will probably find a 77 or 78 date on the case and a 78 VIN. If the servo cover is original, you will probably also find a 77 or 78 date on it.

Try a starter from a Mustang II with a V8, 75-79 I think.

mmerlinn (http://mmerlinn.com) -- "Careless and sloppy writers are usually also careless and sloppy at thinking. Answering questions for careless and sloppy thinkers is not rewarding." - Eric Raymond

Last edited by mmerlinn; 05-18-2010 at 08:45 AM. Reason: Typo
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post #15 of 19 (permalink) Old 05-18-2010, 05:35 AM
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Re: Tranny Year and starter problems???!!!

no the flywheel cannot be mounted on backwards.
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