C4 Best Trans Fluid for performance - Ford Muscle Forums : Ford Muscle Cars Tech Forum
 9Likes
  • 1 Post By galaxiex
  • 1 Post By gregaust
  • 2 Post By GT350HR
  • 2 Post By galaxiex
  • 2 Post By PSIG
  • 1 Post By cmefly
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
post #1 of 10 (permalink) Old 01-23-2019, 06:32 PM Thread Starter
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Posts: 7
C4 Best Trans Fluid for performance

Hi All
Nitroused 408C in 3600lb car runs 9's.
I fried my Trans when the Beleville washer failed all the fingers were bent and it was flipped, that then took out all the alto red clutches. or did the clutches fail and overstroked the piston? Chicken or egg?

It's going back together with new Beleville and 0.025" max clearance on forward clutch (6) pack with Raybestos clutches.

I have a Broader Full manual Valvebody. It had only done few hundred Klm's since last rebuild. previously it has been in for 20 years and had run straight B&M Trickshift. When it failed it had Dex 2 in it (some english brand)
What is a good oil to use?

Broader recommend Dex 3 from a reputable company.

I can get Lucas Sure Shift for a good price. Its say replaces Dex 3 & Mercon but interestingly say not compatible with Type F

John Deere UTF

Im leaning towards the Lucas SureShift.

Others thoughts.

Regards
Spud

Last edited by Spud408; 01-23-2019 at 09:51 PM.
Spud408 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 10 (permalink) Old 01-23-2019, 08:14 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Edmonton, Alberta Canada
Posts: 387
Garage
Re: C4 Best Trans Fluid for performance

Any major brand name full synthetic atf is fine.

Here in Canada we (our shop) have been using the Klondike brand Synthetic ATF.
It's been working great for us in all applications.
Spud408 likes this.
galaxiex is offline  
post #3 of 10 (permalink) Old 01-24-2019, 01:11 AM
Subscriber
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Australia
Posts: 4,284
Re: C4 Best Trans Fluid for performance

I used dexron 3 in one of the popular brands , penrite or castrol or 1 trans I built last year for a guy he was using Penrite type F seemed a good oil also

Usually all the brands are compatible . Not heard of the lucas stuff
Spud408 likes this.

Last edited by gregaust; 01-24-2019 at 01:14 AM.
gregaust is offline  
 
post #4 of 10 (permalink) Old 01-25-2019, 09:20 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Anaheim CA
Posts: 426
Re: C4 Best Trans Fluid for performance

I use Type F ONLY in my C4s. I would only use Dextron in a trans that had needle thrust bearings. I have Raybestos 'blue plates" and no appreciable wear after several hundred runs. Never had that good of luck with the Altos. .025 seems awfully tight for clutch clearance . You could cause wear by too little clearance as well as too much. IIRC mine is .040-.050 on high gear. Winters full manual reverse pattern , no brake.
What do you think Greg?
gregaust and Spud408 like this.

Experimental Ford parts collector.
GT350HR is offline  
post #5 of 10 (permalink) Old 01-25-2019, 11:00 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Edmonton, Alberta Canada
Posts: 387
Garage
Re: C4 Best Trans Fluid for performance

For the record...

Ford type F is "slippery-er" than Dexron II/III. Different co-efficient of friction.
The additive package is also a bit different.

Type F was engineered to provide smooth shifts in a stock passenger car application.

One "trick" I heard years ago, was, to make your Ford trans shift "firmer" change the oil to (at the time) Dexron II.
Because of the different co-efficient of friction, the Dex would make the shifts feel "more firm".

Re; clutch clearance.

"Rule of thumb" clutch clearance is 0.010" per friction clutch.
So if your clutch pack has 5 frictions in it, then 0.050" would be a good starting point.

Some clutch packs require more clearance, depending on their function.

Of course, if you have the manufacturers clearance spec, that should be followed.

The forward clutch on a C4 or C6 can get away with tighter clearance, since that clutch just applies, and stays on, whenever the trans is in a forward gear.
It does not need to release at any time during forward travel, like a "shift clutch" pack might.
The clearance in the forward clutch is only needed for neutral/park, and reverse.

If you make a habit of revving the engine to 6000 RPM in neutral/park, or if you go really fast in reverse,
then a tight clearance in the forward might be an issue.

Also for the record...

I don't like the Alto "Red Racer" friction plates.
I will admit to a bias against any Alto product.
I just don't like them.

The Borg/Warner or Raybestos Hi Energy or racing frictions are excellent, as are the Exedy frictions.
gregaust and Spud408 like this.

Last edited by galaxiex; 01-25-2019 at 11:05 AM.
galaxiex is offline  
post #6 of 10 (permalink) Old 01-25-2019, 10:52 PM
Subscriber
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Australia
Posts: 4,284
Re: C4 Best Trans Fluid for performance

Quote:
Originally Posted by GT350HR View Post
I use Type F ONLY in my C4s. I would only use Dextron in a trans that had needle thrust bearings. I have Raybestos 'blue plates" and no appreciable wear after several hundred runs. Never had that good of luck with the Altos. .025 seems awfully tight for clutch clearance . You could cause wear by too little clearance as well as too much. IIRC mine is .040-.050 on high gear. Winters full manual reverse pattern , no brake.
What do you think Greg?
That's good info. I've never tried the blue frictions . Maybe if I freshen one of my own i could try them ..

.025" on the forward is fine , about where i set them. In the high clutch with 5-6 frictions , .040-.050 is good . Closer to .050 with the 6
gregaust is offline  
post #7 of 10 (permalink) Old 01-26-2019, 02:39 PM Thread Starter
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Posts: 7
Re: C4 Best Trans Fluid for performance

Thanks for that response, I was thinking the same about the tight clearances of the forward clutch pack as it stays engaged. One performace trans builder with a trans dyno said 0.020 - 0.025"
Where would you run the Hi/Rev clutch pack?

Any input on the Lucas Sure Shift? I just ordered a 5 gal (19L) Pale. cost me less than buying 2 x 5L

Regards
Spud
Spud408 is offline  
post #8 of 10 (permalink) Old 01-27-2019, 09:13 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: North Iowa
Posts: 922
Re: C4 Best Trans Fluid for performance

Ford type F is just red hydraulic fluid.
You know the stuff you put in skid loader or tractor.
That's it.

Iowan
"Obsolete is neat"

Iowan is offline  
post #9 of 10 (permalink) Old 01-31-2019, 03:50 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Seattle, WA area
Posts: 10,295
Re: C4 Best Trans Fluid for performance

Quote:
Originally Posted by galaxiex View Post
For the record...

Ford type F is "slippery-er" than Dexron II/III. Different co-efficient of friction.
The additive package is also a bit different.

Type F was engineered to provide smooth shifts in a stock passenger car application.

One "trick" I heard years ago, was, to make your Ford trans shift "firmer" change the oil to (at the time) Dexron II.
Because of the different co-efficient of friction, the Dex would make the shifts feel "more firm".
Actually, its just the opposite. Up into the '80s, most transmission shops used barrels of Type F for everything, as it made Brand X trannies shift cleaner and a bit firmer, and was correct for Ford-family stuff of course. If you do a spec lookup on Type F fluid, you'll find it specifies no friction modifiers. Type F is simple, as basic hydraulic fluid with detergent and corrosion packages and color, to a specific viscosity (ISO 43). This is one reason UTF is so popular in racing, and sometimes as a base for "racing" fluids, also popular for servicing overseas; as in the correct viscosity is equivalent to Type F. Racers often change or blend viscosity for best performance. Hope that helps.

David
gregaust and Spud408 like this.

-=≡ If it was easy everyone would do it ≡=-
[size=1]HotShotsJava.com Hot Shots Java Coffeehouse, Poulsbo ,WA fair trade and 100% organic. Voted best espresso and coffee![/size]
PSIG is offline  
post #10 of 10 (permalink) Old 02-13-2019, 04:52 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 676
Re: C4 Best Trans Fluid for performance

I have been using Transynd TES-295 fluid in my c-4's for a few years now with great results. it is dexIII/mercon compatible.
Spud408 likes this.
cmefly is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Ford Muscle Forums : Ford Muscle Cars Tech Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in











Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Trans fluid instead of Power steering fluid?!? torkair All Ford Techboard 12 05-29-2014 02:43 PM
Trans seller: Broader and FB Performance Trans Sponge C4 Transmissions 4 06-15-2009 03:01 AM
C-4 Trans dumping trans fluid Roarnracin All Ford Techboard 5 05-16-2007 05:58 AM
Fluid or non-fluid dampner??? for 347 ChrisAunchman All Ford Techboard 6 02-16-2005 08:43 AM
Best trans fluid/oil mrtbolt64 All Ford Techboard 3 07-03-2003 04:39 AM

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome