Hey, it didn't break!!!!!! - Ford Muscle Forums : Ford Muscle Cars Tech Forum
 
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post #1 of 14 (permalink) Old 10-17-2008, 10:37 PM Thread Starter
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Hey, it didn't break!!!!!!

I made it to the drags tonight and went to the finals. The tranny held up admirably and the car was running great again. Although I didn't beat my best (a [email protected]), I did pretty much back it up on my first run which was a [email protected] with an unrecorded 60'er. The wife made it to the track and filmed this run, but unfortunately she had the camera set in some type of weird fuzzy mode:



Yep, that was Mr. Mopar that I whooped up on as he turned an [email protected] (which was one of his better qualifying runs without the bottle.) If he was on the bottle, it would have been a photo finish.

Although I didn't quite stick as well at the starting line as during my last outing, every all out run that I made was faster than 11.50 and 122mph. I did have a 1.604 60'er, but backed out right away when Mr. Mopar red lighted during eliminations. All my launches were in the 1.6X range so I was reasonably consistent off the line.

During the night, I perform a dumb rookie mistake twice. Once it worked out in my favor, but in the finals it bite me in the ass. To stay under the radar during eliminations again I dialed an 11.50. It is pretty hard to know how much ET to scruff off when you can run 1/4 second faster than the competition. During my first round of bracket eliminations I raced an 12.52 second car. I was ahead of him 3/4 of a car length in 3rd gear and left off so as not to break out thinking I easily had him. He must have hit another gear and then he had a burst of speed. I nailed the accelerator only to hit the rev limiter almost instantly because I was still at the top of 3rd gear. I then slammed 4th as just as he started to pull ahead and I caught him at the finish line. We were heads up and I am not sure which of us crossed first, but it didn't matter as he broke out with a 12.413 to my 11.860. Perhaps I suckered him into the breakout by letting him catch up near the end of the track.

The second time I made the mistake with scruffing time was during the finals. This time I was ahead by a car length and didn't slow down enough. I broke out with a [email protected] 113.98 on the 11.50 dial. I even had tree'd that car at the line so the win was in my lap and I just gave it away. GRRRRRRR This was probably the most disappointing night I had at the track (including breakage.) What made it really bad was that I had faced Mr. Mopar earlier during the eliminations when he broke out by .001, which opened me up to a possible win.

At least I came home with another runner-up trophy and a race pass for our next outing, which if the weather holds out will be next week. Only 2 more weeks left in the season. The car is working well so I probably won't need to mess with it much.

The tranny is still "slightly" notchy, but not horrible as I hit every gear throughout the night without issues. I attribute the notchyness to the new clutch disc. It fit somewhat tighter to the new input shaft than my previous combination. Not snug and it does move freely, but it is still tighter. I had noticed the notchyness also when I was street driving the car enjoying the autumn foilage and could not get it out with linkage adjustments. Luckily no grinding occurs so I am not afraid to race it this way. Over the winter I'll probably give the splines a buff job to loosen the disc up more.

Maybe a few more good 5K+ launches that are complemented by upper gear slamming will help.

Dennis

65' Stang Street/Strip. Dart 434W NA, Victor heads, G101A 4 Spd, 4:56 rear gear, on 93 octane pushing 3550lbs. [email protected]

Last edited by dennis111; 10-17-2008 at 11:11 PM.
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post #2 of 14 (permalink) Old 10-17-2008, 10:55 PM
 
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Re: Hey, it didn't break!!!!!!

SWEET!!! Looks like its time for you to get some good quality time at the track in the time remaining this year. Atleast you got it running before the long winter nap unlike me.
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post #3 of 14 (permalink) Old 10-18-2008, 05:31 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Hey, it didn't break!!!!!!

Here is a slow motion video of the launch found in my first post:



I've never seen that big 66 Mopar pull the wheels before!

Apparently I still have the rear bouncing problem at the line, although not nearly as pronounced as it was in the summer. Still lots to be gained at the launch since the front and the rear are still not working together.

The next time out I will try to stiffen the rear shocks in and attempt to stop the bounce. I am not sure if this will help eliminate the wheel hop completely, but that is about the only thing I can think of to try this late in the season. I might have to spring for a pair of those "double" adjustable shocks in order to tame it down--but not until next year. Once I get it right, I should be consistently pulling those Magnums off the pavement too!

Here is another fuzzy video of me whopping up on last night's winner during qualifications:


Dennis

65' Stang Street/Strip. Dart 434W NA, Victor heads, G101A 4 Spd, 4:56 rear gear, on 93 octane pushing 3550lbs. [email protected]

Last edited by dennis111; 10-18-2008 at 02:52 PM.
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post #4 of 14 (permalink) Old 10-18-2008, 06:08 AM
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Re: Hey, it didn't break!!!!!!

Dennis,
As long as you are spinning the tires on launch everything will be fine. The tires get to dispurse energy. It's those DEAD HOOKS that whined up the drivetrain. Although the 60ft times are better. It's still hard to believe I went from 1.5 60ft down to 1.36 going to automatic. For your horsepower level, I believe you have solved your problem. Although,
you may be exposing another weak link that you haven't seen yet. I think my whole problem was I was trying to get mine to stick from launch all the time(DEAD HOOKING). Optimum tire spin from launch would be 1 1/2 tire rotations for best 60ft with a stick car. Not counting lenco or liberty set-ups, not sure with the big money stuff. A lot of stick guys I had talk to, say they leave with it matted, and drive through it until it sticks. You may want to lower tire pressure to limit some tire rotation. I beleive as long as your having tire rotation on launch you'll be fine. Great Job Dennis!

Rick DeVito in Indy "Blue Thunder 408W" [email protected] mph 1.27 60ft Rod & Custom MII Sales

Last edited by FATNFAST; 10-18-2008 at 06:12 AM.
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post #5 of 14 (permalink) Old 10-18-2008, 08:13 AM
 
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Re: Hey, it didn't break!!!!!!

I agree that you want some tire spin, not as much as that but you'd want some. When I ripped out my pinion I had launched at 5000 and expected to to spin with the usual track prep. However with the better than normal prep it hooked and sent the pinion skyward.
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post #6 of 14 (permalink) Old 10-19-2008, 06:21 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Hey, it didn't break!!!!!!

I agree with both of you that a dead hook is bad on parts, no doubt about it and sometimes it is hard to avoid. I try to use launch RPM, tire pressure, and clutch static adjustment to lessen the damaging effect.

I am curious about track launch conditions. Track conditions vary due to prep (or lack of it) and they seem to change according to the time of the year. The car runs its best in the spring and the late fall, when the track surface and weather is cooler. In the summer I was pretty much limited to a 3000 launch which I adjusted up or down slightly to match the track conditions.

Now that the cool fall weather is here (and the fact that I made a few changes to the car) I am now using a 4900 launch as a baseline. The filmed launch above was at 5100 and I did try 5300 for a couple of runs, but finished out at 4900 which (again) was giving me the best 60'ers.

I wonder if I'll be tied to a 3000 rpm launch again next summer?

Dennis

65' Stang Street/Strip. Dart 434W NA, Victor heads, G101A 4 Spd, 4:56 rear gear, on 93 octane pushing 3550lbs. [email protected]

Last edited by dennis111; 10-19-2008 at 06:23 AM.
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post #7 of 14 (permalink) Old 10-22-2008, 10:03 AM
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Re: Hey, it didn't break!!!!!!

Dennis, I love the vids and slow mo as well. That's great...Car looks stock and runs low 11's. Ok, just for kicks and giggles you should throw on some lightweight skinnes on the front and pull some weight and see if you could bust out a 10 sec pass... I love the nostaglic Mopar v. Ford clip, I'm sure Mr. Mopar have quite a few more cubic inches under his hood, just makes beating him even better..Right on!!!!

1965 Mustang 2+2:stock headed 289, Weiand 7515, Holley 600 dp, Tri-y's, 3.80 trak-loc, 4sp,Ram Air 13.83 @100.97
03 Mustang Gt d/d 13.03 @105-SOLD
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post #8 of 14 (permalink) Old 10-22-2008, 04:57 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Hey, it didn't break!!!!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by ga289stocker View Post
Dennis, I love the vids and slow mo as well. That's great...Car looks stock and runs low 11's. Ok, just for kicks and giggles you should throw on some lightweight skinnes on the front and pull some weight and see if you could bust out a 10 sec pass... I love the nostaglic Mopar v. Ford clip, I'm sure Mr. Mopar have quite a few more cubic inches under his hood, just makes beating him even better..Right on!!!!
Thank you ga289. It's comments like yours that keep me interested in detailing my adventures.

Mr Mopar has a 440 and his car is gutted except for a racing seat and some aluminum panels. He also runs a Gforce 101 tranny so he is certainly less stock than I am. I really love how that thing launches though.

Trust me in that I am trying to get as close to a 10 second pass as possible this year. I don't have any Ford friends with light 5 lug rims to try, although maybe my ProStock neighbor will lend me the ones off the front of his Probe for a night. I'll just have to keep tuning my suspension and hitting the gears hard.

I did find something that might turn the tables for me early next year and ultimately should cut down on breakage. I found an absolutely smoking deal on brand new RAM aluminum flywheels and have already ordered one. The 15lbs of less rotating weight will allow me to launch at a higher RPM and will give me even faster acceleration. Less breakage comes from not hitting the tires so darn hard. Of course it will get installed during my winter tranny teardown.

Dennis

65' Stang Street/Strip. Dart 434W NA, Victor heads, G101A 4 Spd, 4:56 rear gear, on 93 octane pushing 3550lbs. [email protected]
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post #9 of 14 (permalink) Old 10-22-2008, 06:36 PM
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Re: Hey, it didn't break!!!!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by dennis111 View Post
Trust me in that I am trying to get as close to a 10 second pass as possible this year. I don't have any Ford friends with light 5 lug rims to try, although maybe my ProStock neighbor will lend me the ones off the front of his Probe for a night. I'll just have to keep tuning my suspension and hitting the gears hard.

.
Wish you were closer bud...I would gladly lend you mine..


1968 mustang 408W Hybrid..Burns gas and rubber!
[email protected] with a crappy 1.72 60ft.
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post #10 of 14 (permalink) Old 10-23-2008, 05:39 AM
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Re: Hey, it didn't break!!!!!!

Great work...keep it up. What a sleeper it must be on the street.

Are you hitting the limiter on each shift? Is that by design?
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post #11 of 14 (permalink) Old 10-23-2008, 08:45 AM
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Re: Hey, it didn't break!!!!!!

sand bagging, shame..shame! LOL!! Been accused of it myself, sometimes true, sometimes not. We're all in it to win though. Padding .25 is quite a bit. Being the fastest car in the class can be a double edged sword. I'm sure you've experienced the feeling of giving a competitor several seconds of "head start", had to give a guy over 9 seconds one time, can be pretty unnerving.

I'm moving up a class next season, definetly won't be the fastest car, gonna depend on running the number.

Glad to hear you made it through an outing without breaking anything. Keep having fun.
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post #12 of 14 (permalink) Old 10-23-2008, 10:10 AM
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Re: Hey, it didn't break!!!!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by job1bf View Post
Great work...keep it up. What a sleeper it must be on the street.

Are you hitting the limiter on each shift? Is that by design?
I think what you are hearing is the engine on the limiter "in between" gears..If you have a limiter you can keep it floored for the split second that the clutch is disengaged..


1968 mustang 408W Hybrid..Burns gas and rubber!
[email protected] with a crappy 1.72 60ft.
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post #13 of 14 (permalink) Old 10-23-2008, 10:41 AM
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Re: Hey, it didn't break!!!!!!

kinda suspected that...makes sense. i suppose (aside from limiting revs) it's easier on the driveline?
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post #14 of 14 (permalink) Old 10-24-2008, 05:04 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Hey, it didn't break!!!!!!

Thanks job1bf for the kind words.

Yes, my car does use a rev limiter (through use of a 2 step module) for launch and to limit motor rpm during shifts. In this video, the 2 step was set to limit the launch rpm's at 5100 and that limit goes away the instant that I release the clutch (at launch.)

I had the upper part of the 2 step limiter set for 6600 rpm which is in effect the rest of the time down the track (or on the street.) I shift at 6200 with the gas pedal held to the floor. As Frdnut mentioned, any cutout that you may hear after launch is the car hitting the limiter when the clutch pedal is on the floor during a shift.

The primary benefit of the limiter during the run is , as you mentioned) to not over rev the motor (especially if I miss a shift.) A secondary benefit is that it helps set the rpms for when the clutch is suddenly disengaged--basically keeping me in the upper reaches of my engines torque curve when the shift is complete.

I really can't answer if it is easier on the driveline as I just don't know.

As a side note, since it is nearly the end of the race year and my car is running at its best, starting today I have moved my limiting RPM up to 6800 since my car was getting very, very close to the old 6600 rpm cutoff at the lights. Tonight I'll see if I can push that limit.

Dennis

65' Stang Street/Strip. Dart 434W NA, Victor heads, G101A 4 Spd, 4:56 rear gear, on 93 octane pushing 3550lbs. [email protected]

Last edited by dennis111; 10-24-2008 at 05:16 AM.
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