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post #16 of 56 (permalink) Old 04-06-2010, 02:53 PM
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Re: Dennis111 more Toploader questions

Quote:
Originally Posted by MCCUTCHEON4 View Post
Waiting for it to arrive.
I need the input and two other gears correct?

I hope to score a case this weekend.
Yep--it only takes a 2nd, 3rd, 4th (AKA input shaft) and a cluster to convert from close to wide ratio (or vice versa.) First gear and everything else is pretty much universal.

Having a wide ratio behind that 428 should be sweet!

Dennis

65' Stang Street/Strip. Dart 434W NA, Victor heads, G101A 4 Spd, 4:56 rear gear, on 93 octane pushing 3550lbs. [email protected]
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post #17 of 56 (permalink) Old 04-08-2010, 04:28 PM
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Re: Dennis111 more Toploader questions

I looked through my photo archives and found a few more pics that show the difference in the springs used in the 64'-67' case vs the 68' and newer case.

64'-67' internal shift rail parts:



The above pic is actually the highly desirable 64'-65' set that uses 2 hatchet detents. The 66'-67' setup is similar.

64'-67' screw and short spring on top, 68'-73' spring long spring on bottom:



64'-67' screw installed in case:



68'-73' long spring installed in same hole does not use a screw:



The cover compresses it against the detents.

Dennis

65' Stang Street/Strip. Dart 434W NA, Victor heads, G101A 4 Spd, 4:56 rear gear, on 93 octane pushing 3550lbs. [email protected]

Last edited by dennis111; 04-08-2010 at 04:34 PM.
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post #18 of 56 (permalink) Old 04-08-2010, 09:24 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Dennis111 more Toploader questions

The broken one checks out.
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post #19 of 56 (permalink) Old 04-09-2010, 02:31 AM
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Re: Dennis111 more Toploader questions

Quote:
Originally Posted by MCCUTCHEON4 View Post
The broken one checks out.
Yep-looks good. Also watch for a taper that would be wider on the outside of the case. This happens primarily when the pilot bearing in the back of the crank is shot.

Dennis

65' Stang Street/Strip. Dart 434W NA, Victor heads, G101A 4 Spd, 4:56 rear gear, on 93 octane pushing 3550lbs. [email protected]
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post #20 of 56 (permalink) Old 04-11-2010, 09:50 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Dennis111 more Toploader questions

Well,
the good deal on a case didn't happen yesterday. The person with the parts was not feeling well so he put the deal off for now. He's a stand up guy with a very good reputation, it's just going to take more time.

To be continued....
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post #21 of 56 (permalink) Old 05-02-2010, 11:05 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Dennis111 more Toploader questions

Dennis,
I managed to get the $25.00 case Saturday. The person I got it from ran Toploaders for many years in his racecars. I'm not 100% sure but I think it will be usable.

The holes that bolt it to the bellhousing have been enlarged? I didn't ask any questions as I hope to get a few more needed parts from this person. He has shelves full of old toploader and performace parts for SBFs.

Take a look at the stamps in the top rail.
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post #22 of 56 (permalink) Old 05-03-2010, 02:40 AM
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Re: Dennis111 more Toploader questions

Interesting piece of history there. The stampings look like it had some type of early Doug Nash parts installed in the Ford cast case.

I don't think the bolt holes will present any problem as long as the throwout bearing retainer fits properly in you bellhousing/scattershield. If the holes concern you and you have a scattershield with both sets of mounting holes, use the innermost bolt holes.

Otherwise it wouldn't be to hard to either make a steel or brass bushing for each hole OR make a double threaded stud and use nuts. No matter what, be sure that the transmission is solidly against the bellhousing before snugging the bolts/threads to prevent breaking the remaining ears.

Hopefully nothing else was modified on the case for the DN conversion.

Dennis

65' Stang Street/Strip. Dart 434W NA, Victor heads, G101A 4 Spd, 4:56 rear gear, on 93 octane pushing 3550lbs. [email protected]

Last edited by dennis111; 05-03-2010 at 02:42 AM.
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post #23 of 56 (permalink) Old 05-03-2010, 12:41 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Dennis111 more Toploader questions

As far as I can tell there is no mods other than the big mounting holes.
I was considering bushing them, but maybe there is an advantage in stud
mounting? The bell side of the hole has been chamfered, maybe to ease install?

I will ask the person I got it from soon.

D111, is there a prep and paint that works well for the case or?
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post #24 of 56 (permalink) Old 05-03-2010, 01:28 PM
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Re: Dennis111 more Toploader questions

Studs are almost always preferable to bolts in any application due to better clamping force. Also studs will help guide you better during transmission installation, as per my tech article. The chamfer was probably used as you suggested.

Clean cast is how the toploader came from the factory, but I prefer to paint them.

I take my cases to work and media blast them until the rust and paint is gone. If I have the time, I normally primer the outside with Red Rustoleum and let it age for a month or so. If I am in a hurry, I go straight to the paint coat after a good cleaning. As for paint, any good engine enamel will do.

Dennis

65' Stang Street/Strip. Dart 434W NA, Victor heads, G101A 4 Spd, 4:56 rear gear, on 93 octane pushing 3550lbs. [email protected]

Last edited by dennis111; 05-03-2010 at 01:41 PM.
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post #25 of 56 (permalink) Old 02-06-2011, 09:13 PM Thread Starter
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For Dennis111 / 112

Dennis,
Do you know much about the three piece moduler input gear that
Dan Williams sells? There is a description of if on his site but no pictures.


I finally put my toploader together Saturday, actually twice, I had the lower reverse gear on backwards, the shift fork slot facing the rear of the case, it would not go into reverse. I think I will be doing it again as there
seems to be a shift rail detent issue also.

MC4
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post #26 of 56 (permalink) Old 02-07-2011, 02:37 AM
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Re: For Dennis111 / 112

No actual experience here. The 3 piece is supposed to be very strong and good. I suggest calling Dan himself. He is a wealth of knowledge and won't try to sell you something that you don't need.

Sorry that you are having toploader assembly issues. It is a big puzzle but can only work one way. I normally lay all out on a big piece of cardboard, basically in the order and direction that the parts sit in the case. Photos taken while disassembling are a great help (R & R'ed a Subaru motor and did the heads that way-took longer to remove than to reinstall.) I also have a good step by step reference book (with pictures) for when I am rusty, If you need help on a specific area, just ask (and hopefully include pics.)

Dennis

65' Stang Street/Strip. Dart 434W NA, Victor heads, G101A 4 Spd, 4:56 rear gear, on 93 octane pushing 3550lbs. [email protected]

Last edited by dennis111; 02-07-2011 at 03:09 AM.
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post #27 of 56 (permalink) Old 02-07-2011, 08:30 PM Thread Starter
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Re: For Dennis111 / 112

Quote:
Originally Posted by dennis111 View Post
No actual experience here. The 3 piece is supposed to be very strong and good. I suggest calling Dan himself. He is a wealth of knowledge and won't try to sell you something that you don't need.

Sorry that you are having toploader assembly issues. It is a big puzzle but can only work one way. I normally lay all out on a big piece of cardboard, basically in the order and direction that the parts sit in the case. Photos taken while disassembling are a great help (R & R'ed a Subaru motor and did the heads that way-took longer to remove than to reinstall.) I also have a good step by step reference book (with pictures) for when I am rusty, If you need help on a specific area, just ask (and hopefully include pics.)
At least I will never put the reverse gear in backwards again...
I will take some pictures. Looking at the shop manuals shift rail diagram, it appears I am missing the interlock pin #7235, Does that sound familier to you?

This would have been much easier if I had disassembled the transmission myself. I bought it 100% torn down.

Thanks.

By the way your coupe is looking good!

Sorry about the 2 threads.

Last edited by McCutcheon4; 02-07-2011 at 09:59 PM.
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post #28 of 56 (permalink) Old 02-07-2011, 09:56 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Dennis111 more Toploader questions

Quote:
Originally Posted by dennis111 View Post
I looked through my photo archives and found a few more pics that show the difference in the springs used in the 64'-67' case vs the 68' and newer case.

64'-67' internal shift rail parts:



The above pic is actually the highly desirable 64'-65' set that uses 2 hatchet detents. The 66'-67' setup is similar.

64'-67' screw and short spring on top, 68'-73' spring long spring on bottom:



64'-67' screw installed in case:



68'-73' long spring installed in same hole does not use a screw:



The cover compresses it against the detents.
I think this may be where my problem is. I did find the interlock pins on Toploader Heaven.
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post #29 of 56 (permalink) Old 02-08-2011, 02:39 AM
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Re: Dennis111 more Toploader questions

Be sure to check out the other thread too.

There were actually several pin configurations over the years-and the notches in the shift rods can vary too. They are all interchangeable "as a set."

Chart of different years: Shift Rail ID

Don't know why they changed so often . . . . .

I don't have any extras at this time. Any of the 3 big toploader dealers (Mark Williams, Toploader Heaven, David Key) can fix you up with a usable set. I've talked to all of them and each are helpful.

1965 style kit, or individuals for each year (David Kee): Shift Rail Kit / Interlock Pins

Dennis

65' Stang Street/Strip. Dart 434W NA, Victor heads, G101A 4 Spd, 4:56 rear gear, on 93 octane pushing 3550lbs. [email protected]

Last edited by dennis111; 02-08-2011 at 02:58 AM.
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post #30 of 56 (permalink) Old 02-08-2011, 02:53 AM
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Re: For Dennis111 / 112

The shift rail pic shows ALL the pins needed (and proper location) in EVERY toploader.



PS--There is a 3rd spring not shown in the above pic--it is short and would be the lower most part (installed before any pins.)

Just watch for the different variations (and of course the top 2 parts shown could be replaced by a single long spring in later years.)

Not sure what that pin looks like by the # given. I do have a few extras of some of the parts (individual pins, springs, and rails). Can you ID it better or have a pic?

Dennis

65' Stang Street/Strip. Dart 434W NA, Victor heads, G101A 4 Spd, 4:56 rear gear, on 93 octane pushing 3550lbs. [email protected]

Last edited by dennis111; 02-08-2011 at 03:02 AM.
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