1964 power drum to manual drum brake conversion - Ford Muscle Forums : Ford Muscle Cars Tech Forum
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post #1 of 27 (permalink) Old 05-27-2016, 10:03 AM Thread Starter
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1964 power drum to manual drum brake conversion

Hey All,

The power booster on my 1964 has gone out (engine died and had to stomp on the pedal to stop the car, and the booster gradually failed over the next several days to where it's not working at all). I'd like to convert from power brakes to manual, mainly because of the price of the booster (and I see the previous owner had to buy a booster for it too). My first 1964 Galaxie I had as a kid had manual drum brakes and wasn't a problem so I'm fine with keeping drums all around. But I'd like to also switch to a dual reservoir master cylinder at the same time.

I've been reading threads and also checking the master parts catalog. It looks like the same pedal and wheel cylinders were used in 1964, regardless of whether the car had power or manual brakes. The master cylinders for manual brakes used a 1" bore and for power it was a 7/8" bore. I'm thinking I can go with a 1967 Galaxie dual MC for manual drum brakes, which should have the residual valves and would be a 1" bore (same as the jelly jar that would have been used with manual brakes). I'm not sure about the pushrod, though. Does anyone know what will work with the 1967 MC on the 1964 Galaxie, and where to get it? I've also read about differences between master cylinders in regards to how the pushrod is retained (deep vs. shallow cup, snaps/presses in place vs. just kind of sets in place). Obviously I want to make sure that the pushrod mounting is correct and not going to fall out.

Any help would be appreciated!

Thanks,

Pat

1964 Galaxie 500 2 dr Fastback, 390, 4 speed, Indianapolis Indiana
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post #2 of 27 (permalink) Old 05-27-2016, 11:48 AM
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Re: 1964 power drum to manual drum brake conversion

here.... also get the one that comes with pedal pushrod
1968 MERCURY MONTEREY 7.0L 428cid V8 Master Cylinder | RockAuto


you have to separate front & rear and keep brake light switch..
you will need some fitting like these...
https://www.fordmuscleforums.com/brak...ml#post1691233


and you would want it looking like last picture in post

https://www.fordmuscleforums.com/gala...ml#post1761889

%201964%20Galaxie/?action=view&current=09-03-10_1408.jpg Lars...
64 galaxie 500 2dr fastback...390 4v, Bendtsen adapter, maddog's stage3 700R4 trans,3.70 Posi..far from perfect but getting there...
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post #3 of 27 (permalink) Old 05-27-2016, 12:38 PM
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Re: 1964 power drum to manual drum brake conversion

Do you have the bracket that increases the compounded leverage to the MC? In other words, the pressure applied to the MC must be the same or greater than the stock manual setup on a given bore size for it to function properly with the same wheel cylinder bores. Just a reminder to verify that in any setup.

David

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post #4 of 27 (permalink) Old 05-27-2016, 12:54 PM
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Re: 1964 power drum to manual drum brake conversion

Quote:
Originally Posted by PSIG View Post
Do you have the bracket that increases the compounded leverage to the MC? In other words, the pressure applied to the MC must be the same or greater than the stock manual setup on a given bore size for it to function properly with the same wheel cylinder bores. Just a reminder to verify that in any setup.

David
my understanding is that he's getting rid of booster and pedestal bracket...
mounting master cylinder directly to firewall...
going from power to manual brakes..
does pushrod need to be moved up a little higher on pedal??

%201964%20Galaxie/?action=view&current=09-03-10_1408.jpg Lars...
64 galaxie 500 2dr fastback...390 4v, Bendtsen adapter, maddog's stage3 700R4 trans,3.70 Posi..far from perfect but getting there...

Last edited by RAGGAREN; 05-27-2016 at 12:57 PM.
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post #5 of 27 (permalink) Old 05-27-2016, 01:26 PM
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Re: 1964 power drum to manual drum brake conversion

Pedal is the same. I have a 64 push rod if you need it.

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post #6 of 27 (permalink) Old 05-27-2016, 02:50 PM Thread Starter
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Re: 1964 power drum to manual drum brake conversion

Quote:
Originally Posted by RAGGAREN View Post
here.... also get the one that comes with pedal pushrod
1968 MERCURY MONTEREY 7.0L 428cid V8 Master Cylinder | RockAuto
Thanks! You would mean this one, right?

More Information for A-1 CARDONE 101485

The Raybestos one looks like it has a pushrod too, but the MC looks "weird" (skinny, two pressure switches). Front brakes go to back port of MC? So the included rod (for the 1968 Monterey in this case) should work with the 1964 pedal lever and underdash bracket? In other words, the dimensions/geometry of the pedal to the master cylinder should be the same between the two cars?

Quote:
you have to separate front & rear and keep brake light switch..
you will need some fitting like these...
https://www.fordmuscleforums.com/brak...ml#post1691233


and you would want it looking like last picture in post

https://www.fordmuscleforums.com/gala...ml#post1761889
Yeah, I was aware of the switch issue but the link helped to see how it will go together.

Pat

1964 Galaxie 500 2 dr Fastback, 390, 4 speed, Indianapolis Indiana
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post #7 of 27 (permalink) Old 05-27-2016, 03:02 PM Thread Starter
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Re: 1964 power drum to manual drum brake conversion

Quote:
Originally Posted by RAGGAREN View Post
my understanding is that he's getting rid of booster and pedestal bracket...
mounting master cylinder directly to firewall...
going from power to manual brakes..
does pushrod need to be moved up a little higher on pedal??
Yep, that's it exactly: power to manual. I haven't taken anything apart yet so although I'd read about the compound leverage thing I'm not sure exactly where it is (which side of the firewall). I suspect it's on the engine side? Also, the MPC indicates there were a couple of brands of boosters used (Bendix and some other) but it's probably moot since the booster that is on there now was installed in 2009 or so (would have to check the paperwork again that came with the car). But yeah, planning on mounting the MC to the firewall and wasn't sure about what pushrod to use, length, and attachment method to the master cylinder. Sounds like the easiest would be to use a master cylinder with an attached rod, if it is the right length.

Thanks,

Pat

1964 Galaxie 500 2 dr Fastback, 390, 4 speed, Indianapolis Indiana
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post #8 of 27 (permalink) Old 05-27-2016, 03:04 PM Thread Starter
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Re: 1964 power drum to manual drum brake conversion

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Originally Posted by 63ford406 View Post
Pedal is the same. I have a 64 push rod if you need it.
Thanks; hopefully I can get a master cylinder with a correct length rod attached but if not, it is good to have a backup plan.

Pat

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post #9 of 27 (permalink) Old 05-27-2016, 07:09 PM
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Re: 1964 power drum to manual drum brake conversion

yeah ..
I would get this one...
More Information for A-1 CARDONE 101485
far as pushrod length.. I don't know....
for me it would not be a problem.. I have a welder

%201964%20Galaxie/?action=view&current=09-03-10_1408.jpg Lars...
64 galaxie 500 2dr fastback...390 4v, Bendtsen adapter, maddog's stage3 700R4 trans,3.70 Posi..far from perfect but getting there...
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post #10 of 27 (permalink) Old 06-01-2016, 02:29 PM Thread Starter
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Re: 1964 power drum to manual drum brake conversion

Well, I got the master cylinder today, Cardone 10-1485, and am a bit annoyed that when I test the ports with a paper clip, the clip goes in at least an inch or so. It seems I have to wiggle/guide it a bit past something that feels rubbery, but if I get it just right, it slides right in on both ports. This indicates there are no residual valves, which are necessary for my drum/drum setup, right? I haven't done this before so wanted to ask before I either return the part or buy external residual valves. Not thrilled with adding more external components given I'll be having the tee in there for the brake light already.

Pat

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post #11 of 27 (permalink) Old 06-01-2016, 09:57 PM
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Re: 1964 power drum to manual drum brake conversion

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1964Fastback View Post
Well, I got the master cylinder today, Cardone 10-1485, and am a bit annoyed that when I test the ports with a paper clip, the clip goes in at least an inch or so. It seems I have to wiggle/guide it a bit past something that feels rubbery, but if I get it just right, it slides right in on both ports. This indicates there are no residual valves, which are necessary for my drum/drum setup, right? I haven't done this before so wanted to ask before I either return the part or buy external residual valves. Not thrilled with adding more external components given I'll be having the tee in there for the brake light already.

Pat
I would just ad 10lbs. residual valve rear line...
Wilwood Residual Pressure Valves 260-13707 - Free Shipping on Orders Over $99 at Summit Racing

%201964%20Galaxie/?action=view&current=09-03-10_1408.jpg Lars...
64 galaxie 500 2dr fastback...390 4v, Bendtsen adapter, maddog's stage3 700R4 trans,3.70 Posi..far from perfect but getting there...
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post #12 of 27 (permalink) Old 06-01-2016, 10:39 PM
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Re: 1964 power drum to manual drum brake conversion

Residual pressure valves (RPVs) are not strictly required, but do improve the feel, pedal travel, and reduce leaks in the wheel cylinders. Your paperclip test sounds odd though. If there is no RPV, the probe will fall right into and out of the port, as there is nothing but an empty passage under the brake line seat. If you think there is something rubbery, that's probably a valve, and you can worm the probe through the duckbill lips of the valve if you get it right. Don't damage it.

Another way to prove it, and assuming the MC is clean and dry on the bench, simply blow into the port, and the air should hiss through into the reservoir area. If you can't blow air into the port, there is a valve in-place.

David

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post #13 of 27 (permalink) Old 06-02-2016, 03:28 AM Thread Starter
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Re: 1964 power drum to manual drum brake conversion

Quote:
Originally Posted by RAGGAREN View Post
Thanks, but I'd need two, though I believe (drum/drum) at $18 each. I'd be contacting Rock Auto before that to complain since it would be about the as I paid for the M/C in the first place.

Pat

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post #14 of 27 (permalink) Old 06-02-2016, 03:32 AM Thread Starter
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Re: 1964 power drum to manual drum brake conversion

Quote:
Originally Posted by PSIG View Post
If you think there is something rubbery, that's probably a valve, and you can worm the probe through the duckbill lips of the valve if you get it right. Don't damage it.

Another way to prove it, and assuming the MC is clean and dry on the bench, simply blow into the port, and the air should hiss through into the reservoir area. If you can't blow air into the port, there is a valve in-place.

David
David,

That's it exactly (the rubber valve). I can visualize it now. Like I said, I hadn't worked with this before, and was envisioning something more solid like a ball check valve. I was careful with the paper clip in case I didn't know what I was doing, and verified with the blow test, which indicated there are in fact (rubber) valves in place.

Thanks; I'm happy now (until this weekend when I suspect I might be dealing with pushrod length issues).

Pat

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post #15 of 27 (permalink) Old 06-10-2016, 10:15 PM
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Re: 1964 power drum to manual drum brake conversion

Did you ever get it together? Im also considering going to manual and ditching the booster.
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