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post #16 of 28 (permalink) Old 12-28-2016, 05:50 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Hydraulic Roller Lifters For FE

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Originally Posted by blykins View Post
On a Morel lifter, from the end of the roller wheel to the bottom of the oil band is .885". From the end of the roller to the top of the oil band is 1.500".

I also have several FE hydraulic roller cams here if you want to compare some dimensions. However, I still think there's not an issue, unless Crane REALLY screwed up and the base circle is just way out in space somewhere. Again, highly doubtful, as I'd say all the cam companies buy the cores from the same place.

My guess is that the bleeding that you're seeing is just excessive lifter bore clearances and your low oil pressure problem is probably something else.

From time to time, Morel is out of lifters and I have to use other brands. I have used Comp lifters, Crane, etc. I actually just used a set of the Comp lifters a few weeks ago. I've never seen any issues with lifter oil bands, nor have I ever seen any base circle issues with FE hydraulic rollers. The only difference between lifters is in the pushrod seat height.
Hi blykins,

Thank you so very much for measuring the Morel lifters, do you have a part number for that lifter you used in your measurement? The reason why I asked is when I looked upon Morel's website they have two lifters with two different size wheels for the FE.

I think the one you measured should work in the shortened lifter bore block I seem to have (in the post above I drone on about that).

Again many thanks, you just made my day!

Cheers
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post #17 of 28 (permalink) Old 12-29-2016, 09:50 AM
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Re: Hydraulic Roller Lifters For FE

DesertXL,
Glad you found the problem. Your "find" is the exact reason I was careful to say I didn't think Crane was at fault. The only reason the reduced base circle was suggested was to solve the problem "with the existing lifters". The Morel lifter is a more perfect solution by far.

Thanks to Brent for the information about the lifters , he is a wealth of knowledge .
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post #18 of 28 (permalink) Old 12-29-2016, 02:29 PM
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Re: Hydraulic Roller Lifters For FE

I use Morel 5325's. If you need a set, let me know. I'll give you a substantial discount to help offset the hassle you're going through.

Brent Lykins
Lykins Motorsports, LLC
www.lykinsmotorsports.com
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post #19 of 28 (permalink) Old 12-29-2016, 02:42 PM
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Re: Hydraulic Roller Lifters For FE

Gah, they changed something on the forums and you lose what you typed. Anyway, I just caught this thread and the interesting lifter bores you have. My short answer: There is a (possibly) simpler and cheaper and better fix, which is sleeving the lifter bores (a common procedure) which solves any wear, corrects the length, and allows you to use any lifters including the ones you already have. However, you might be in real luck, as that odd rabbet step may indicate sleeved bores, with the wrong (shorter) sleeves. If so, press new longer ones in and you're golden! If not, then just sleeve them properly (removing the step) and put it all back together. Just looking at options. Good luck!

David

Example of one random sleeve supplier (BHJ Products) offerings of standard Ford sleeves. Custom and other suppliers have yet more:

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post #20 of 28 (permalink) Old 12-30-2016, 10:15 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Hydraulic Roller Lifters For FE

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Originally Posted by blykins View Post
I use Morel 5325's. If you need a set, let me know. I'll give you a substantial discount to help offset the hassle you're going through.
Hi blykins,

I must thank you kindly for that offer, but I've been talking to a sales rep who was helping me at Morel and I committed to buy already, I don't wish to break that commitment. But it is very kind of you indeed.

As a note, they measured the two possibilities and the 5329 is the better choice as it sits 50 thousandths lower in the bore than the 5325, which should fix the mechanical tolerance problem at least in this block.

Cheers.
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post #21 of 28 (permalink) Old 12-30-2016, 10:24 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Hydraulic Roller Lifters For FE

Quote:
Originally Posted by PSIG View Post
Gah, they changed something on the forums and you lose what you typed. Anyway, I just caught this thread and the interesting lifter bores you have. My short answer: There is a (possibly) simpler and cheaper and better fix, which is sleeving the lifter bores (a common procedure) which solves any wear, corrects the length, and allows you to use any lifters including the ones you already have. However, you might be in real luck, as that odd rabbet step may indicate sleeved bores, with the wrong (shorter) sleeves. If so, press new longer ones in and you're golden! If not, then just sleeve them properly (removing the step) and put it all back together. Just looking at options. Good luck!

David

Example of one random sleeve supplier (BHJ Products) offerings of standard Ford sleeves. Custom and other suppliers have yet more:

Hi PSIG,

Thank you for the reply and with the idea of sleeving the lifter bores. It is definitely a way out of this conundrum. But I think the Morel lifters will work, which would save me from stripping the block bare again and hauling it back to the machine shop and waiting another month or longer to get it back.

I had a look at the block and I cannot find a definitive step or interface for an already inserted sleeve. In fact there is a similar chamfer found on the other FE's but just lower in this engines lifter bore.

Perhaps it was a Monday and the machinist setting up this run was a wee bit hungover.

Actually judging from the rest of the "oh crap" moments at the factory and still shoved the car through it really doesn't surprise me. There was a huge dent behind the Cooling and Heater engine bay plenums that could only have been done at the factory as there was no other surrounding damage and they threw it together anyway even with a big gaps on either side of the fiberglass plenums. Then when removing the original undercoat it was really insanely thick on the passenger rear floor pan, when I removed it there was a another huge gash they just covered up.

I really shouldn't be surprised I guess.
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Last edited by DesertXL; 12-30-2016 at 10:29 AM.
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post #22 of 28 (permalink) Old 12-30-2016, 01:24 PM
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Re: Hydraulic Roller Lifters For FE

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Hi blykins,

I must thank you kindly for that offer, but I've been talking to a sales rep who was helping me at Morel and I committed to buy already, I don't wish to break that commitment. But it is very kind of you indeed.

As a note, they measured the two possibilities and the 5329 is the better choice as it sits 50 thousandths lower in the bore than the 5325, which should fix the mechanical tolerance problem at least in this block.

Cheers.
Don't forget that the Morels will need different length pushrods. The 5329's are also limited travel, so setting the preload and getting them to run quietly may prove to be a little trickier.

Brent Lykins
Lykins Motorsports, LLC
www.lykinsmotorsports.com
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post #23 of 28 (permalink) Old 12-31-2016, 01:50 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Hydraulic Roller Lifters For FE

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Originally Posted by blykins View Post
Don't forget that the Morels will need different length pushrods. The 5329's are also limited travel, so setting the preload and getting them to run quietly may prove to be a little trickier.
Thank you blykins,

I didn't know the 5329's were limited travel, I'll see if I can exchange them for the 5325's. I do not want to have to fiddle with valve adjustments on a normal basis or deal with loud ones.

I suppose I'll get this sorted out sooner or later.

Cheers!
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post #24 of 28 (permalink) Old 01-04-2017, 12:56 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Hydraulic Roller Lifters For FE

Quote:
Originally Posted by PSIG View Post
Gah, they changed something on the forums and you lose what you typed. Anyway, I just caught this thread and the interesting lifter bores you have. My short answer: There is a (possibly) simpler and cheaper and better fix, which is sleeving the lifter bores (a common procedure) which solves any wear, corrects the length, and allows you to use any lifters including the ones you already have. However, you might be in real luck, as that odd rabbet step may indicate sleeved bores, with the wrong (shorter) sleeves. If so, press new longer ones in and you're golden! If not, then just sleeve them properly (removing the step) and put it all back together. Just looking at options. Good luck!

David




Example of one random sleeve supplier (BHJ Products) offerings of standard Ford sleeves. Custom and other suppliers have yet more:


Hi PSIG,

After thinking about this I decided your advice was the best thing to do. So I stripped down the block and just came back from the machine shop with the hopes of them being able to sleeve the lifter bores. Apparently this isn't done much anymore, my machinist never had the FE jig and sold off the small block Chevrolet jig because it's so uncommon now-a-days, but he's going to ask around if anyone has one still for an FE (industrial section of town).

I shall see in a day or two what he finds. It may not be possible after all, of which then for sure the Morel's are the next logical step. But I had to try to do the right thing.

Thanks again for the advice!

Cheers
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post #25 of 28 (permalink) Old 01-26-2017, 11:23 AM
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Desert XL
Sent you a an email on this but I recall it matters where the oil hole (aligned with roller axis vs. perpendicular) is located on the lifter.

I don't claim to know exactly why but noticed your original is different than the Morels or even my Howard's.
Could this be related to your issue?
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post #26 of 28 (permalink) Old 01-27-2017, 08:10 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Hydraulic Roller Lifters For FE

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Originally Posted by 67galconvert View Post
Desert XL
Sent you a an email on this but I recall it matters where the oil hole (aligned with roller axis vs. perpendicular) is located on the lifter.

I don't claim to know exactly why but noticed your original is different than the Morels or even my Howard's.
Could this be related to your issue?
Hello,

I'll just repeat a bit what I wrote back in the email so others can see too. I have two problems with oiling, first is the oil hole coming out of the bore at lift and it jets a stream of hot oil right out of the engine if you have the rocker cover off. This is how I noticed this problem. After the engine warmed up and oil pressure tanked to just several psi at idle I shut it down, quickly removed the rocker covers and dizzy. Inserted the manual oiler and spun with drill and bumped the engine over with the starter, on more than one occasion I had a oil shooting out of the space between the intake and the head like a squirt gun when the cam was at a certain point.

Obviously that's the lifter bore height and lifter fitment problem. Which should be solved with the Morels.

Now the second problem is still way too much oil going to the rockers (it's a wicked waterfall at idle from each rocker). Thanks to the kindness here I was provided the article which referenced the oiling hole location and proper metering. But I've decided to go back to solid pushrods and use head oiling instead and that should eliminate the oiling guesswork as I can control much easier the oil to each rocker assembly with the 12-24 threaded orifice rather than half to worry about restricting oil in each pushrod.

The heads haven't come back from the machine shop yet, so this is on hold till they do.

Cheers!
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post #27 of 28 (permalink) Old 07-27-2019, 08:52 AM
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Re: Hydraulic Roller Lifters For FE

Hello all, I'm Ted, a Newby and just looking to get my feet wet to start with.

Has anyone had any experience with early FE solid lifter Only blocks and solid roller cams & lifters? I have a cross bolted C5AE-A block out of a boat with brass screw in core plugs. I'm looking to make a solid roller project out of it but fear that that Morel 4726 roller lifters may starve for oil on the rollers and axles....Any thoughts?
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post #28 of 28 (permalink) Old 07-28-2019, 09:22 AM
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Re: Hydraulic Roller Lifters For FE

Probably better to start your own post, but you have options. Have your block drilled for oil, go with splash oiling only, and last, go solid flat tappet. I tend to just go solid flat because it's very easy to make power and control the valvetrain, but the best route is to drill your block if you can find someone to do it. Blair Patrick can do it, and I think Lance at Craft Racing

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