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post #16 of 33 (permalink) Old 07-12-2018, 06:58 AM
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Re: Alternator charging

A lot of these problems sound like poor grounding. And although I'm not familiar with full size Fords, I can tell you you I had a variety of lighting issues with my '65 Ranchero that were all corrected by replacing the mechanical switch located on the brake pedal.
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post #17 of 33 (permalink) Old 07-12-2018, 02:12 PM
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Re: Alternator charging

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Originally Posted by X-Jumper View Post
Now, I feel like an idiot. As I work on the car, checking connections and voltages and the day slowly fades away, my friend goes "Your rear lights are lighting up", as I stepped on the brake pedal. It turns out that the lights actually do work (car not started, just ignition key turned), but they are so dim you cannot notice them in daylight. Battery was full - 12.8V. We're talking so dim that's hard to tell if they are on. I took the bulbs out from the rear lights and bulbs are new. I've put them directly on the battery and they are bright as sun. Things checked:

- high beam switch on the floor works. Or at least it did. After three presses it won't turn off the high beams. Have to check and clean the switch or order new one.
- Rear lights work.
- Brake light work - only left one. Checked right bulb - dual filament bulb - both filaments OK. Have to do further wiring checks.
- Left and right turn signal lights in the rear work. But still need to clean/check the steering column switch. Front turn signals light up. Have to check if they are also blinking (90% sure they are).


As stated, this was with engine OFF and ignition ON. I wonder if things will be different with engine running.



I cannot confirm for backup lights if they work or don't work. Taking into consideration the shorted switch I would say they don't work. For now I'm leaving backup lights as they are. Why? Here in Europe you have to modify US style turn signal. They want to see orange ones. So usually people will modify the wiring and put orange bulbs in backup lights to keep the stock apperance. I have to wait and see what they tell me at Technical Inspection.


There is virtually no Ford Galaxie parts over here. Mustang are covered much better. So if the parts interchange, new parts are easier to get.
Retrofitting different Europe-style and made generic switches and relays won't be too big of an issue.
Basicly if I am missing one imperial intake bolt there's probably no chance that I'll find it in hardware store. Getting parts from The States takes time - from 3-4 weeks roughly. And is expensive when adding postage, 22% VAT, customs.

I was told that transmission was rebuild. Though it is weeping oil through inside of front housing (around where bottom hole is) and rear seal. Not a big deal but it drips a drop every 2h. When I'll have the car up on a lift I'll check for shape of transmission oil pan. But I would say transmission is original to the car. Thanks for the info regarding Cruise-o-Matic. Stating the wrong transmission on parts order can end up pricey.

Oh, and the radio. Yes, it does have an AM-FM radio. No, speakers though. I will fit some. But first I must take care of the wiring. Don't want any additional current or strain flowing through this old wires. I called a few stores around here and it's impossible to get wires in the same color codes. I can opt for generic Ford wiring from American Auto Wire (around 700 USD). Or do Aviation style. In aviation all wires are white, but they have printed alfa-numerical letters. But that can be tricky in a long run.
For start I have to make good connections and quality wires from alternator to the relays, switches, hubs. That way I guarantee good flow of current. Don't want to replace just rear wires and cause a fire because delivery wires were not up to bigger current draw.

In the following days I plan to spend some more time with the car and go step by step.

Still to do:
- Engine to body ground strap and other grounding points.
- NSS switch: checking steering column
- Checking C4 for NSS
- Checking wiring on electric seats


Thank you
Hello X Jumper,

No worries, we all have had those moments where it was right under our nose sort of thing.

As BrewBoy mentioned, the dimly glowing brake lamps when on the brake pedal are an indication of an open ground. Without the rear lamp buckets grounded when you step on the brake the high wattage filament in each rear bulb will ground through the running lamps (low wattage filaments throughout the car). On each side tail lamp socket there is a fast on connector for ground and those ground wires run to the middle of the boot area where the boot lid latch receptacle is welded to the body structure. There is a sheet metal screw with two ring connectors that each ground wire for each tail lamp socket ground. So 3 places to check for the rear grounds (each bulb socket and the ground screw on the boot lid latch receptacle)

* -As stated, this was with engine OFF and ignition ON. I wonder if things will be different with engine running.

It should make no difference, key on or engine running. All the alternator should do with the engine running is bump up the sitting battery voltage ~12.6 V to ~14.5. If anything the lamps should be a bit brighter idling, but no change in functionality.

* -Here in Europe you have to modify US style turn signal. They want to see orange ones. So usually people will modify the wiring and put orange bulbs in backup lights to keep the stock apperance. I have to wait and see what they tell me at Technical Inspection.

That's really interesting that they wouldn't grandfather that in. Old cars here in most of the states I am aware of let the car be what it was originally. If it only had one drivers side brake lamp and no turn signals then it's fine on the road. Obviously still have to use the standardized arm gestures for turning.

* -Basicly if I am missing one imperial intake bolt there's probably no chance that I'll find it in hardware store.

That's total irony as it's almost the reverse here, SAE/English bolt sizes are a plenty, metric is usually the tiny to microscopic selection in hardware stores. Try and find a metric drill bit locally, not going to happen. It wasn't till just a couple of years ago that major chain hardware stores finally started offering dual English/metric tape rulers. Don't get me wrong, either system of measurement works for me. Metric is just easier and less prone to mental arithmetic errors.

* -Getting parts from The States takes time - from 3-4 weeks roughly. And is expensive when adding postage, 22% VAT, customs.

I'm not even going to touch that one. I will say I order a bit from the UK and shipping is always very reasonable and quick.


* -I was told that transmission was rebuild. Though it is weeping oil through inside of front housing (around where bottom hole is) and rear seal. Not a big deal but it drips a drop every 2h. When I'll have the car up on a lift I'll check for shape of transmission oil pan. But I would say transmission is original to the car. Thanks for the info regarding Cruise-o-Matic. Stating the wrong transmission on parts order can end up pricey.

Ewe, if it's leaking from the torque converter area, either it's the torque convertor, front seal or pump to housing seal. Either way the transmission has to be removed from the car to mend the leak. If you like and your drivers doors is original, take a snap shot of the warranty plate that is riveted to the upper portion of the door that faces the jamb. The transmission the car came with from the factory will be listed on there. I know I'd like to see it if it's not too much fuss.

* -Oh, and the radio. Yes, it does have an AM-FM radio. No, speakers though. I will fit some. But first I must take care of the wiring. Don't want any additional current or strain flowing through this old wires. I called a few stores around here and it's impossible to get wires in the same color codes. I can opt for generic Ford wiring from American Auto Wire (around 700 USD). Or do Aviation style. In aviation all wires are white, but they have printed alfa-numerical letters. But that can be tricky in a long run.
For start I have to make good connections and quality wires from alternator to the relays, switches, hubs. That way I guarantee good flow of current. Don't want to replace just rear wires and cause a fire because delivery wires were not up to bigger current draw.

Wow your galaxie has loads of rare accessories and is kind of a rare bird in itself. Plus I noticed it had factory air condition from the under dash photo. I am kind of curious to know how your Ford AM-FM radio has fared over the years. I have two of these and even doing the electrical alignment I have noticed there is an increase in noise (hiss) do to the degeneration of the germanium transistors. I would imagine it's the PN crystal lattice breaking down over the years inside. Not in itself a big deal any competent radio shop should be able to replace them and re-align the IF and oscillator when done and it will sound like any other monaural hi-fi with decent speakers.

As for wiring, pardon my ignorance, but what kind of wire does the EU mandate for its cars? The wire for modern cars here is irradiated cross link polymer for insulation. They are then broken down into insulation thickness: GXL, SXL, and TXL. GXL has the thickest insulation and is used in high chaffing areas, such as body and engine bay, SXL is normally used every where else and where wires are clustered to high density areas like switches or consoles TXL is used as it has the thinnest insulation.

But all these are available in a myriad of colours and can even get them with stripes. Fleece-Bay, err E-Bay is good place if you need just 20 or so feet of each colour. Otherwise for larger quantities buy direct from the wholesaler or manufacturer if they will let you. Often the minimum order is quite large though.

Aircraft wire will work, It's the same irradiated cross link polymer insulation, just with an additional layer of Teflon over that and of course the conductor is silver and not copper. I'm not sure what suppliers you have there, but they also make aircraft wire in colours and not just white anymore here. When I replaced and rewired my little two seater airplane several years ago I used the coloured wire for that. It's easier than using all white wire and having to label each wire.

It's a brilliant idea to replace the engine bay wiring as it is no doubt getting brittle on the insulation from the exposure to heat and hydrocarbons. Plus the non-weather proof connections are probably getting corroded as well. As you say, no point in causing hot spots in connectors from high loads due to poor conductivity or risking wires turning into toaster elements due to plain old shorts caused by broken insulation.

Good luck and let us know how it goes.

Cheers
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Last edited by DesertXL; 07-12-2018 at 10:35 PM.
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post #18 of 33 (permalink) Old 07-12-2018, 02:21 PM
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Re: Alternator charging

Hi there,

Quote:
Here in Europe you have to modify US style turn signal. They want to see orange ones.
Not entirely true. In the Netherlands they leave well enough alone. My Gal is origional.

Where are You?

Mel

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post #19 of 33 (permalink) Old 07-12-2018, 11:24 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Alternator charging

@DesertXL : Sure I can get you door plate number. See photo attached.
Finally the weekend is ahead of us and I'll have some more time to check on the car. Looking forward actually Thank you a lot for the input!

Tools for instance - GearWrench 83000 set is about 78 USD. To get that shipped here, I would pay somewhere around 160-170 USD. Actually US tools sets get more and more metric bits. On the other hand European tools don't come with anything imperial. SnapOn in Europe is expensive, BluePoint is hard to get. We have Unior manufacturer here which make excellent tools. They do make imperial tools but are shipped to the US. If I buy them here the set is basicly x2 the money of metric set. Wurth the same, Beta even higher.
From what I have managed to dig out, my galaxie came from the factory as LTD 2dr fastback, in Ivy Green with 390 4bbl, 3 speed C4, AC, power steering, power brakes (drums), power windows and power seats, AM/FM radio. Supposedly Marti report isn't available for cars prior to '66 so I haven't even try to contact them.

@Nite-owl : I am from Slovenia. Look for chicken shaped country In Austria they are quite strict regarding safety. So there you must make a headlight conversion to H4 and turn signal must be orange - front and back. I will see how it goes with authorities in the following days
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Last edited by X-Jumper; 07-12-2018 at 11:26 PM.
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post #20 of 33 (permalink) Old 07-13-2018, 05:18 AM
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Re: Alternator charging

Hi there,

I just remembered: Hier we do need to replace the headlights with European ones.

Mel

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post #21 of 33 (permalink) Old 07-13-2018, 02:11 PM
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Re: Alternator charging

X Jumper, I don't think your automatic transmission is a C-4; I believe it is an MX, or at least it came from the factory that way. After more than 50 years it could have been changed to other possibilities. Your warranty plate transmission code (4) decodes to Cruise-O-Matic. The correct code for the C-4 transmission is "6". As I speculated earlier, the C-4 was used on less powerful engines in its early years and the MX Cruise-O-Matic is typically what "should" have come with the 390. To be sure, count the number of transmission pan bolts. If it has 14 bolts it's an MX. If i has 11 bolts it's a C-4. And, just for the sake of argument, it it has 17 bolts it's a C-6 (which didn't debut until the 1966 model year) in case someone's done some swapping. Good luck with your project. I'll bet it's the only one in Slovenia!
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post #22 of 33 (permalink) Old 07-15-2018, 01:32 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Alternator charging

Spent whole day in the garage. Mostly on brakes and front frame - more on that in other topic. I have checked alternator charging:
- Idle with no load: 13.5 V
- Higher rpm, no load: (2.000 - 3.000 RPM) up to 18V (eighteen)
- Idle with load (lights, fan speed 3): 12.15V
- higher rpm with the same load: goes up more slowly. Comes to 13 V and goes slowly to around 14.

With no load, voltage seems very high. Am I missing something? Like regulator. I measured at the battery terminals. Also check the voltage at the starter relay alternator terminal (+) and battery (-) but cannot remember the numbers. I think they were about the same. After I stopped the engine, battery voltage was over 13V (initial, before startup was 12.7V).

Measured voltage on wire at rear lights. Voltage on rear bulb cable is 11.4V. Wires are in bad shape (see photos). The thing is I cannot find my way around them. I don't know what wire is for what. I posted a photo if someones knows, it would be helpful. I haven't check wiring diagram in depth yet and compare it with car's wiring. I suspect some wires were replaced. With solid black ones. Wonderful.

I also check the connections on alternator grounding. They are not in the best shape, but connection seems solid. Spotted starter wire. Starter was replaced, not so long ago, but the wire is basicly without insulation. It's not touching anywhere. Needs to be fixed ASAP.

Little knob thing - I spotted this in '66 Galaxie. It's fitted under the dash on LHS of the steering column. I guess it was fitted by Ford.

And now the transmission. Transmission's oil pan has 14 fasteners. Oil pan is square with one "bulge" on the passenger side, if my orientations is right. It relates to the 'Medium-Case-Cruis-o-Matic' transmission in the photo. Photo courtesy of Fordification.com.

And yes, I can confirm, this is the only Galaxie here

Thank you again.
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post #23 of 33 (permalink) Old 07-15-2018, 02:15 PM
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Re: Alternator charging

18 volts no load indicates bad regulator or wiring
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post #24 of 33 (permalink) Old 07-15-2018, 02:16 PM
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Re: Alternator charging

so you are in usterich now?
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post #25 of 33 (permalink) Old 07-16-2018, 12:18 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Alternator charging

Need to check for regulator, then.
No, not Austria. One country more south of Austria
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post #26 of 33 (permalink) Old 07-17-2018, 08:36 AM
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Re: Alternator charging

Quote:
Originally Posted by X-Jumper View Post
Spent whole day in the garage. Mostly on brakes and front frame - more on that in other topic. I have checked alternator charging:
- Idle with no load: 13.5 V
- Higher rpm, no load: (2.000 - 3.000 RPM) up to 18V (eighteen)
- Idle with load (lights, fan speed 3): 12.15V
- higher rpm with the same load: goes up more slowly. Comes to 13 V and goes slowly to around 14.

With no load, voltage seems very high. Am I missing something? Like regulator. I measured at the battery terminals. Also check the voltage at the starter relay alternator terminal (+) and battery (-) but cannot remember the numbers. I think they were about the same. After I stopped the engine, battery voltage was over 13V (initial, before startup was 12.7V).

Measured voltage on wire at rear lights. Voltage on rear bulb cable is 11.4V. Wires are in bad shape (see photos). The thing is I cannot find my way around them. I don't know what wire is for what. I posted a photo if someones knows, it would be helpful. I haven't check wiring diagram in depth yet and compare it with car's wiring. I suspect some wires were replaced. With solid black ones. Wonderful.

I also check the connections on alternator grounding. They are not in the best shape, but connection seems solid. Spotted starter wire. Starter was replaced, not so long ago, but the wire is basicly without insulation. It's not touching anywhere. Needs to be fixed ASAP.

Little knob thing - I spotted this in '66 Galaxie. It's fitted under the dash on LHS of the steering column. I guess it was fitted by Ford.

And now the transmission. Transmission's oil pan has 14 fasteners. Oil pan is square with one "bulge" on the passenger side, if my orientations is right. It relates to the 'Medium-Case-Cruis-o-Matic' transmission in the photo. Photo courtesy of Fordification.com.

And yes, I can confirm, this is the only Galaxie here

Thank you again.
Hello X Jumper,

As Extech said, the over voltage at high engine speed is most likely going to be regulator especially if the wiring is in order. Now onto the pictures, the boot area looking at the hinge, there are two leads coming out from the area over the rear axle. That's the fuel sender. One goes to ground right around that area with a sheet metal screw. That ground wire for the sender is black, the other wire for the sender that runs up to the hinge area that's the fuel sender wire that runs back to the fuel gauge. That wire should be yellow with a white stripe. It appears in the photo someone may have spray painted or undercoated that area and hit the wires.

As for the tail-lamps, a bit hard to tell from the pics, but it looks like the correct colour wires are still there. The solid black wire is the running/parking lamp feed wire to the low wattage filaments in the rear tail lamps as well as the license plate lamp feed. The red with black stripe are the ground wires for each tail lamp housing (both backup and brake/turn bulbs in each housing)

The black with red stripe is the backup/reversing lamp feed, the green with orange stripe is the drivers side turn/brake lamp feed (high wattage filament). Finally the orange with blue stripe wire is passenger side turn/brake lamp feed.

Hopefully that sorts you out a bit back there.

As 635Rangoon427 mentioned the door plate does decode to the Borg Warner transmissions, of which with a Z code 390 (from VIN) it would make the most sense to have the MX and not the FX version.

If memory serves all Borg Warner style transmissions have the 14 bolt holes for the pan but the bulge should be the MX. On the FX and MX the dipstick tube also attaches into the side of the drain pan itself via a big tube nut. The FMX (came out in '68) has the dipstick tube that goes into the side of the case and not the pan but otherwise resembles the FX and MX.

Cheers
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post #27 of 33 (permalink) Old 07-17-2018, 03:24 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Alternator charging

Once again, big thanks to all for helping out. Also, I am a bit suprised that you don't criticize what kind of a junk this car is. This was one of few that looked good. But I have overlooked quite a few faults. Hopefully I can make it right, with your help.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DesertXL View Post
Hello X Jumper,

As Extech said, the over voltage at high engine speed is most likely going to be regulator especially if the wiring is in order.
Found voltage regulator. But I need to check it. Probably I can find it here in europe. Relays and things should be widely available.

Quote:
Now onto the pictures, the boot area looking at the hinge, there are two leads coming out from the area over the rear axle. That's the fuel sender. One goes to ground right around that area with a sheet metal screw. That ground wire for the sender is black, the other wire for the sender that runs up to the hinge area that's the fuel sender wire that runs back to the fuel gauge. That wire should be yellow with a white stripe. It appears in the photo someone may have spray painted or undercoated that area and hit the wires.
Yes, that is a yellow wire. Fuel gauge doesn't work. I need to check if there is voltage in the wire. Could be the fuel sending unit died. Bad ground. Bad wire. Bad gauge or no voltage.

Quote:
As for the tail-lamps, a bit hard to tell from the pics, but it looks like the correct colour wires are still there. The solid black wire is the running/parking lamp feed wire to the low wattage filaments in the rear tail lamps as well as the license plate lamp feed. The red with black stripe are the ground wires for each tail lamp housing (both backup and brake/turn bulbs in each housing)

The black with red stripe is the backup/reversing lamp feed, the green with orange stripe is the drivers side turn/brake lamp feed (high wattage filament). Finally the orange with blue stripe wire is passenger side turn/brake lamp feed.
I need to check for voltage in all those wires. So far there's no licence plate lamp and no backup lights. But i know one thing - if I turn the wheels by hand, when the car is on the lift, horn works I think the steering wheel switch needs attention. On weekend (hopefully) I'll pull the steering wheel off and see the condition of the switch. I'll be carefull with NOS switch, as it was pointed out before.

Quote:
If memory serves all Borg Warner style transmissions have the 14 bolt holes for the pan but the bulge should be the MX. On the FX and MX the dipstick tube also attaches into the side of the drain pan itself via a big tube nut. The FMX (came out in '68) has the dipstick tube that goes into the side of the case and not the pan but otherwise resembles the FX and MX.
Yes, 14 bolts and a big tube nut on the side of oil pan. The nut and bulge are on passenger side. So I guess MX. Don't know if those are considered good or bad. I can post some photos. Also of the 9" rear end. I also have serials which does not fit to anything: # ?DC-K1 and 00 4(?)HD 119. First ? means I cannot read the letter or number, second (?) means I am not sure what the symbol is. Looks like 4 but I am not sure.
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post #28 of 33 (permalink) Old 07-18-2018, 12:11 PM
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Re: Alternator charging

The preliminary check out of the fuel gauge is easy to do, but is helpful to have two people. One person turns on the ignition and watches the fuel gauge. The other person is under the fuel tank, removes the yellow wire from the stud and grounds (earths) the yellow wire to any suitable metal surface. The fuel gauge needle should start climbing toward the full indication. If this happens, it means your gauge works, your gauge wiring is OK, and the problem is with your in-tank sender. If you have no needle movement, then more extensive trouble shooting is required. The quality of currently available senders isn't what it used to be, unfortunately. Good luck!
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post #29 of 33 (permalink) Old 07-22-2018, 10:48 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Alternator charging

The battery went dead - probably need to replace it since it's still the open type. So I wasn't able to do any in-depth electrical trouble shooting. I was able to check indicator switch at the steering wheel. Had to fabricate steering wheel puller tool, took the steering wheel off and had a look at the contacts - they seem quite worn. I was able to fix them, so now the indicators work.


Alternator seems worn and beat up. I will order a new one from SummitRacing. I'll go with 100 amp and a new voltage regulator. Together with a new battery.


I would be glad if someone can give some more info on my transmission. Supposedly MX. Were these transmissions any good? And, since my transmission was rebuild a year ago, is it normal, that transmission jerks the car forward while driving on upshifts. I think it is worse when the oil is cool. When it goes from 1st to 2nd and 3rd the car jolts forward, like a big kick in the back.

And the lever in the photo - should it be connected to something?


I appologize for all these questions. But these are the issues that are presenting to me as I go through the car. I print the posts and than go to the car and inspect Thank you.
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post #30 of 33 (permalink) Old 07-22-2018, 12:50 PM
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Re: Alternator charging

It sounds like you may have a 'shift kit' in your transmission; they're meant to improve performance by eliminating slippage, giving you firmer shifts.

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