Do we have any Strokers in the audience tonight? - Ford Muscle Forums : Ford Muscle Cars Tech Forum
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post #1 of 13 (permalink) Old 04-27-2019, 05:33 AM Thread Starter
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Do we have any Strokers in the audience tonight?

No. . . .your engine! I'm looking at a aluminum head 433 stroker for my 63 fastback and just looking for a little insight from any btdt people. The car is 3:70 geared, C6 with manual/automatic valve body with a loose convertor so the driveline is ready for it. Just wondering if I'm getting into trouble? Not looking for a fire breathing monster just something that can get out of the way when needed so are there any inherent problems with stroker motors? Overheating, longevity issues, etc. This is a whole new world to me.


Oh and I was thinking of putting this on it: https://www.jegs.com/i/Speedmaster/7...8-010/10002/-1
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post #2 of 13 (permalink) Old 04-27-2019, 08:36 AM
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Re: Do we have any Strokers in the audience tonight?

That intake setup is without the fuel injection (or so it looks). Just be careful, I'd hate to see you have $4000 in an intake/FI setup if that isn't what you were expecting.


Yes, I have a 447ci in my 63.5 Galaxie. I built the car from the back forward, so there really aren't many stock parts left in the driveline.


Annoyance level, or street usage is more determined by things like compression, and camshaft profile. With a 433 you can have a taxi cab or a racecar, just be very clear regarding your intentions.


What other questions did you have?

1976 F100 390/c6
1963.5 Galaxie 446FE/c6
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post #3 of 13 (permalink) Old 04-27-2019, 11:11 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Do we have any Strokers in the audience tonight?

Yeah I've been doing some digging on that thing. Their website isn't very clear and there aren't any installation instructions that I can find. They do say you need to source ALL the sensors and adapters to make them work, mention which Accel injectors to use etc. I haven't checked lately but I'm guessing a weber setup may come in cheaper. Don't know why but I really want some form of multi carb induction on this thing.

Edit: I looked up the Inglese Weber setup and lord I'm getting old. The last time I checked their prices you could get the complete setup out the door for about $2500, nowadays that's the down payment!


The engine I'm looking at is a 480hp/500+torque at 5k with a nice lope to it! I guess the attraction to multi induction is that it just feels right for this car. Of course I'm trying to stay period correct on most things I'm doing to it right down to the under dash 8 track! Although I'm not giving up on the creature comforts as I will be adding aftermarket AC to it and have already done the hydroboost power brake conversion. I may draw the line at power windows though!

Last edited by femurphy77; 04-29-2019 at 04:19 AM.
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post #4 of 13 (permalink) Old 04-27-2019, 01:45 PM
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Re: Do we have any Strokers in the audience tonight?

I get it. I have a thing for multicarb FE setups as well. It's pretty much all I do.


IMG_1593 by Drew Pojedinec, on Flickr






Drew
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1976 F100 390/c6
1963.5 Galaxie 446FE/c6
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post #5 of 13 (permalink) Old 04-29-2019, 03:39 AM
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Re: Do we have any Strokers in the audience tonight?

Drew hit it on the head, but why only 433?

The FE block has a ton of room, and needs no special parts to use the 4.25 crank. Even the piston skirts at bottom dead center only drop about .180 below the bore, super reliable. In fact, my 489 FE has been together with lots of miles and nothing but oil changes since 2006. The reason I point that out is that the cost is pretty much the same, and there is o reliability downside to go with the big crank.

The trick for any healthy FE is good block machining and getting clearances right. I start with checking main alignment, square decking and boring with a torque plate. Pick a cam based on the end use and head/intake combo, and buy pistons to match.

445s are great, as are the 428 and 427 based strokers, although I love a good stock stroke FE with the same prep too, if you have the budget, the strokers are fantastic.

70 Sportsroof, 427 FE/489 cid, TKO-600, 31 spline 4.10, A/C. modified Mass-flo EFI/reprogrammed A9L/CnC ported Victor.
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post #6 of 13 (permalink) Old 04-29-2019, 04:02 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Do we have any Strokers in the audience tonight?

Quote:
Originally Posted by DeepRoots View Post
I get it. I have a thing for multicarb FE setups as well. It's pretty much all I do.


IMG_1593 by Drew Pojedinec, on Flickr






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Holy Venturi Batman!
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post #7 of 13 (permalink) Old 04-29-2019, 04:17 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Do we have any Strokers in the audience tonight?

Quote:
Originally Posted by My427stang View Post
Drew hit it on the head, but why only 433?

The FE block has a ton of room, and needs no special parts to use the 4.25 crank. Even the piston skirts at bottom dead center only drop about .180 below the bore, super reliable. In fact, my 489 FE has been together with lots of miles and nothing but oil changes since 2006. The reason I point that out is that the cost is pretty much the same, and there is o reliability downside to go with the big crank.

The trick for any healthy FE is good block machining and getting clearances right. I start with checking main alignment, square decking and boring with a torque plate. Pick a cam based on the end use and head/intake combo, and buy pistons to match.

445s are great, as are the 428 and 427 based strokers, although I love a good stock stroke FE with the same prep too, if you have the budget, the strokers are fantastic.
433 simply because I found one ready to run, fresh off the dyno that doesn't require a lot of extra input from me. A little background might help explain it a little better; I've NEVER had any luck with FE's going back to the first one I rebuilt for a 70 F100 thru several others up to and including my current 63 fastback. I swore off of this engine family after too many failures and after not owning one for about 30 years thought I'd give it a try one more time before dropping in a 460 and being done with it.

When I picked up the current project from the original owner it wasn't running. I had to pull the pan because someone had been in it and hadn't put the keeper on the oil pump drive shaft so while working on getting it running the shaft fell into the pan. With the pan off it was apparent looking at the internals and the cylinder walls that this engine was very fresh so I buttoned it back up and continued working on getting it running. I had all the ingredients, fuel, air, compression and spark but would only occasionally get a little poof thru the pipes our out of the carb. Long story short on this one is that whoever had been inside the engine in the past managed to put the new chain and sprockets on without the locating pin in the end of the cam so the cam was slipping. The valves were opening and closing but obviously not when they were supposed to. No matter how I reset the distributor I couldn't get it timed. Unfortunately I didn't discover this until I'd given up and invested in another engine.

The engine I chose to invest in went to the shop for a complete overhaul, 30 over, thumper cam, and all the good stuff to support it. With only a few operational hours on it one of the lifters exploded and trashed the block, cam and my patience for FE's so I pushed the whole project into a corner for about a year. Having invested in a C6 for FE's and having all that money tied up in the peripherals I decided to try and find a running example of the engine I'd like to have. That's when I found the 433 in question. I guess I've been out of it for so long I didn't realize how mainstream strokers had become so I can see that my question is a little lame.

Back in the day a stroker was typically a collection of oddball parts that have no business being together much less with any reliability. I may actually call the builder that has the 433 and see what he'd charge be to push the inches up a little more but I don't want to take it out of the park too far because I want to be able to get in this thing and drive it down the coast on occasion if the urge arises. Basically I'm looking for a little "drive in" cred with reliability and the ability to hit the road if the mood strikes.
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post #8 of 13 (permalink) Old 04-29-2019, 06:25 AM
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Re: Do we have any Strokers in the audience tonight?

I won't get hung up on the 433 vs 445 deal, you have an engine done with one. If you were to start from scratch, Ross is 100% there with going larger.

Here is the real math you need to be doing.....



Take the cost of that already assembled 433, figure what parts like the camshaft need to be changed to suit your needs, add in all those parts plus install. etc.
I would also want part numbers and receipts for everything. There are some substandard parts out there, and it would obviously detract.
Just do not ever get in a situation of owning a "compromise" engine. It sucks, do it once, do it right.


Ok, now figure the math when contacting a specialty FE builder like Lykin Motorsports, or Tom Lucas, Lance Smith, Barry R, etc. The benefit with those guys is that they can build an engine for your exact requirements. This matters.


Drew

1976 F100 390/c6
1963.5 Galaxie 446FE/c6
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post #9 of 13 (permalink) Old 05-19-2019, 12:41 PM
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Re: Do we have any Strokers in the audience tonight?

Quote:
Originally Posted by femurphy77 View Post
Back in the day a stroker was typically a collection of oddball parts that have no business being together much less with any reliability. I may actually call the builder that has the 433 and see what he'd charge be to push the inches up a little more but I don't want to take it out of the park too far because I want to be able to get in this thing and drive it down the coast on occasion if the urge arises. Basically I'm looking for a little "drive in" cred with reliability and the ability to hit the road if the mood strikes.
No reason to fear the largest of strokers on a long trip, it's not a small block with the pistons hanging out of the bore. However, if the 433 is built already, it should do great too

This car has been a 489 inch FE since 2006 and gets nothing but oil and filter changes and the occasional checking of valve lash (once ever 4-5 years maybe) When I leave the house early in the AM, I rarely come home before dark. AC/PS manual brakes, 5 speed TKO-600, ran a 1000 Holley from 2006 to 2009, then port injected since then.

Prior to that use to run the Pacific Coast Highway and I15 between Las Vegas and SoCal with a 433 inch 427 and a 4 speed using anywhere from 3.70s to 3.00s in the rear. FEs love to be driven

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70 Sportsroof, 427 FE/489 cid, TKO-600, 31 spline 4.10, A/C. modified Mass-flo EFI/reprogrammed A9L/CnC ported Victor.
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post #10 of 13 (permalink) Old 05-20-2019, 06:52 PM
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Re: Do we have any Strokers in the audience tonight?

Quote:
Originally Posted by DeepRoots View Post
Ok, now figure the math when contacting a specialty FE builder like Lykin Motorsports, or Tom Lucas, Lance Smith, Barry R, etc. The benefit with those guys is that they can build an engine for your exact requirements. This matters.


Drew
Yes, HIGHLY encourage anyone who is not WELL VERSED in all things FE to use a builder who knows ALL of the in/outs/tricks of the almighty FE. They know which parts work, and which ones don't. They know how to build one that will last, and have the exact personality you want. Do it once, and do it right!

Barry's website is Survival Motorsports Home Page

Lykins Lykins Motorsports, LLC

Precision Oil Pumps has some GOOD stuff... and not just oil pumps... and not just FE or Ford! The hard to find stuff that tends to solve a lot of problems.
Precision Oil Pumps

I'm less pesonally familiar with Lucas or Smith... but have dealt with all the above I listed links for. Ross (My427Stang) is also an EXCELLENT resource, and would be a good guy to work with if you are local... and/or he's willing.

Good Luck!
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post #11 of 13 (permalink) Old 05-29-2019, 05:31 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Do we have any Strokers in the audience tonight?

Whew! All good info but their engine prices are almost as high my total build budget! Good info for research though. I have found a local builder with a lot of verified FE experience and we are already in discussion. My goal is 500/500 which he said isn't a problem these days and as stated above it will be reliable enough to road trip occasionally when desired.
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post #12 of 13 (permalink) Old 05-30-2019, 04:03 AM
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Re: Do we have any Strokers in the audience tonight?

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Originally Posted by femurphy77 View Post
Whew! All good info but their engine prices are almost as high my total build budget! Good info for research though. I have found a local builder with a lot of verified FE experience and we are already in discussion. My goal is 500/500 which he said isn't a problem these days and as stated above it will be reliable enough to road trip occasionally when desired.
Four things that are relatively important if you go local (which of course can be just as good as any of us anywhere else)

1 - Have the block square decked off the mains. Not too many guys cut the deck without aligning to the mains anymore, but there are still some. I cut minimally to the deck height I need for the most crooked side. Lately, 10.155 has been my lucky number. You then can buy pistons to match your head gasket / deck height combo to get the desired quench. It's amazing how crooked old engines will be front to back and sise to side.

2 - Sonic check and bore minimally, the thicker the wall you can end up with, the better for ring seal. FEs are all over the place, and there is no standard for cylinder wall thickness. It's not a problem usually, but you need to be aware before you build a flexible cylinder wall

3 - Have the block honed with a torque plate. Often shops don't have one for an FE. It makes a huge difference. I had one 445 here that distorted .008 after bolting a head on, and that was a fresh bore, fresh deck, but not done with a torque plate. Huge amount when clearances are .0035 or so. It was a thin block and we ended up converting that one back to a mild 390 and found another block, but regardless, even the best blocks crawl a little with a head bolted to them

4 - Just technique, but I replace all push in galley plugs with NPT plugs. Never had a push in failure, some have, but it makes it really easy to wash and just thread them all in. The cost is minimal when doing block work

For a reference, I don't do my own block work, and I bring quite a few through my guy, but after I strip all the parts and bring a bare block. Clean, cut, bore and deck plate hone, with NPT plugs (you can do them yourself, but it's nice to have them run it through the tank to clean a bit more) I am at about 800 dollars. The difference is worth it though. Deck heights, bores, etc are all spot on

One last comment, 500/500 is not hard to hit, but is not falling off a log either. I would consider a set of Trick Flow TFS heads and build around them with an Edelbrock RPM manifold. Their runner volume is relatively small, although they have a few quirks like small chambers and you need to cut the rocker stands, it will allow you to make the power with a bit less cam. His comment of "occasional road trip" is odd, there is no reason if done right you couldn't daily drive it. Especially if willing to spend the money on a hyd roller cam. 1.16 hp per cid is absolutely attainable, but keep in mind that if you stay 433, then you will need to rev it a little more. I'd much prefer to see 445, 461 or bigger to make the power at a lower RPM in a Gal.

70 Sportsroof, 427 FE/489 cid, TKO-600, 31 spline 4.10, A/C. modified Mass-flo EFI/reprogrammed A9L/CnC ported Victor.

Last edited by My427stang; 05-30-2019 at 04:10 AM.
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post #13 of 13 (permalink) Old 06-10-2019, 05:01 AM
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This is why I’m still thinking about using Lykins or Ross for my build. They do all the right things and are transparent about all of it. Ross has helped me with so much through this forum and got no benefit from it. Wish I could buy him and Brent each a case of beer.

I have two local builders in my area that are rumored to do good work... One of the two guys called me back but wanted to use a cheap stroker kit on my car... but other than that neither shop will discuss the details with me. and both of the local guys have multiple mechanics in their shops so I’m not sure the head honcho at those shops will even look at my build more than once.

It may cost more but I have full confidence that Ross and/or Brent would do a fantastic job. One of them would already have my engine but I haven’t worked overtime in six months and ran out of funding for my project.
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