Can You Identify This Under Dash Wire? - Ford Muscle Forums : Ford Muscle Cars Tech Forum
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post #1 of 22 (permalink) Old 05-15-2019, 02:20 PM Thread Starter
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Can You Identify This Under Dash Wire?

Can anyone identify this odd wire assembly under the dash on the left side of steering column. Wiring is certainly not my strong point.
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post #2 of 22 (permalink) Old 05-15-2019, 06:25 PM
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Re: Can You Identify This Under Dash Wire?

Those wires do look stock based on the ends. But that is kind of an odd arrangement. It could be that something else originally plugged into that connector. Like a switch. It's possible that it is related to an option that your car doesn't have, so the factory jumped it out. It seems kind of kludgy for the factory to do, so it's possible that someone replaced a switch and jumped across the terminals instead.

Do you have a wiring diagram? If so, you should be able to trace the wire colors and find that connector.

- John

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post #3 of 22 (permalink) Old 05-15-2019, 07:17 PM
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Re: Can You Identify This Under Dash Wire?

looks like neutral start jumper, was car converted to stick from auto trans?
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post #4 of 22 (permalink) Old 05-15-2019, 07:39 PM
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Re: Can You Identify This Under Dash Wire?

Yes, neutral safety switch and Back up light connector for automatic column shift mounted switch.

If the car is a stick (looks like a clutch pedal there) the back up light switch will be on the floor shifter.

Stick cars did not have a neutral safety switch, but the harness was the same as automatic cars,
so the factory simply jumper the neutral switch.

Last edited by galaxiex; 05-15-2019 at 07:45 PM.
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post #5 of 22 (permalink) Old 05-15-2019, 08:07 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Can You Identify This Under Dash Wire?

Quote:
Originally Posted by moneypit64 View Post
looks like neutral start jumper, was car converted to stick from auto trans?
No. The Vin indicates that it is original build of 406 & 4 speed trans.

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post #6 of 22 (permalink) Old 05-16-2019, 07:41 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Can You Identify This Under Dash Wire?

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Originally Posted by galaxiex View Post
Yes, neutral safety switch and Back up light connector for automatic column shift mounted switch.

If the car is a stick (looks like a clutch pedal there) the back up light switch will be on the floor shifter.

Stick cars did not have a neutral safety switch, but the harness was the same as automatic cars,
so the factory simply jumper the neutral switch.
The reason I'm under the dash looking at wiring is I'm looking for a keyed wire to grab for my new Leed vacuum pump. Its a 10 amp draw.

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post #7 of 22 (permalink) Old 05-16-2019, 02:22 PM
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Re: Can You Identify This Under Dash Wire?

That's kind of a big draw. Best to use a relay, pulling power from the battery terminal of the solenoid. You could trigger it from the positive terminal of the coil. If you need to use a trigger source inside the car, the center, screw terminal of the ignition swich is hot when the key is on, but also in the ACC position if that's a problem.


Don't forget an inline fuse, maybe 15 or 20 A, preferably located close to the battery end of the wiring (to protect more of it).


Pat

1964 Galaxie 500 2 dr Fastback, 390, 4 speed, Indianapolis Indiana
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post #8 of 22 (permalink) Old 05-17-2019, 08:21 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Can You Identify This Under Dash Wire?

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1964Fastback View Post
That's kind of a big draw. Best to use a relay, pulling power from the battery terminal of the solenoid. You could trigger it from the positive terminal of the coil. If you need to use a trigger source inside the car, the center, screw terminal of the ignition swich is hot when the key is on, but also in the ACC position if that's a problem.


Don't forget an inline fuse, maybe 15 or 20 A, preferably located close to the battery end of the wiring (to protect more of it).


Pat
Thank you Pat. --- I have already purchased this Blue Sea 4 circuit covered fuse block to hook into a strong keyed source for future accessory options. https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/...?ie=UTF8&psc=1 Your relay suggestion hooked to the battery positive of the solenoid could feed this fuse block to its max potential. Could you possibly post an Amazon link to a relay that would work for my situation. Automotive electrical is not my strong point. I ordered a 63 Galaxie wiring book to help me out, but it has not arrived yet. ---- So under the above scenario I would need to find just about any keyed wire source to trigger the relay, right?

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post #9 of 22 (permalink) Old 05-17-2019, 02:04 PM
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Re: Can You Identify This Under Dash Wire?

Here's a link to one that has good reviews. Not very expensive but you have to buy two, so that's kind of annoying:


https://www.amazon.com/Ehdis-Relay-4...qid=1558125892


Here is a link that explains the pin numbering (about halfway down):


https://www.12voltplanet.co.uk/relay-guide.html


87 to the battery, 30 to the pump or fuse block, 86 to the line that's hot when the key is in run and 85 to ground.


I would say you need to find a line that's hot only with the key in the run position. You'd quickly drain your battery running the 10 amp pump if you left the key in the ACC position to listen to the radio, and the pump also ran in that position.


Pat

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post #10 of 22 (permalink) Old 05-20-2019, 06:41 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Can You Identify This Under Dash Wire?

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1964Fastback View Post
Here's a link to one that has good reviews. Not very expensive but you have to buy two, so that's kind of annoying:


https://www.amazon.com/Ehdis-Relay-4...qid=1558125892


Here is a link that explains the pin numbering (about halfway down):


https://www.12voltplanet.co.uk/relay-guide.html


87 to the battery, 30 to the pump or fuse block, 86 to the line that's hot when the key is in run and 85 to ground.


I would say you need to find a line that's hot only with the key in the run position. You'd quickly drain your battery running the 10 amp pump if you left the key in the ACC position to listen to the radio, and the pump also ran in that position.


Pat
Pat ---- The 2 relay pack just arrived from Amazon. Actually its great to have 2 as I will keep one in the glove compartment for a backup. Also my wiring manual came. Now to try and find the keyed on trigger for the relay.

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post #11 of 22 (permalink) Old 05-20-2019, 08:23 PM
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Re: Can You Identify This Under Dash Wire?

Quote:
Originally Posted by fordwilly View Post
Pat ---- The 2 relay pack just arrived from Amazon. Actually its great to have 2 as I will keep one in the glove compartment for a backup. Also my wiring manual came. Now to try and find the keyed on trigger for the relay.
Do NOT take power from the coil + as suggested above.

The coil + is fed thru a ballast resistor. You don't want that.

A wiring diagram would be handy to find an "ignition on" power source.

I would suggest the red-green wire at the ignition switch. It will be "hot" when the key is "ON" but *not hot* in the ACC position.

Note that the red-green wire goes to a splice and becomes pink.

The pink wire is the ballast resistor that goes to the coil +.

Don't take power after that splice, or anywhere on, or after the pink wire.

Here's a pic... Note the red arrow pointing at the ignition switch connector.
That is where you should take power to trigger the relay.
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Last edited by galaxiex; 05-20-2019 at 08:33 PM.
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post #12 of 22 (permalink) Old 05-25-2019, 07:58 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Can You Identify This Under Dash Wire?

Quote:
Originally Posted by galaxiex View Post
Do NOT take power from the coil + as suggested above.

The coil + is fed thru a ballast resistor. You don't want that.

A wiring diagram would be handy to find an "ignition on" power source.

I would suggest the red-green wire at the ignition switch. It will be "hot" when the key is "ON" but *not hot* in the ACC position.

Note that the red-green wire goes to a splice and becomes pink.

The pink wire is the ballast resistor that goes to the coil +.

Don't take power after that splice, or anywhere on, or after the pink wire.

Here's a pic... Note the red arrow pointing at the ignition switch connector.
That is where you should take power to trigger the relay.
Thank You Galaxiex ----- Well per the picture below I spent some time under my dash. With my age and size the only way I can get there is with my bench seat taken out and a doubled furniture pad down. Had to call the wife to get me out after lol. --- As the picture shows its hard to see wire colors/stripes or their origins. Will continue to look and test. Thanks for your help. --- Bill
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Last edited by fordwilly; 05-25-2019 at 08:17 PM.
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post #13 of 22 (permalink) Old 05-26-2019, 10:39 AM
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Re: Can You Identify This Under Dash Wire?

Quote:
Originally Posted by fordwilly View Post
Thank You Galaxiex ----- Well per the picture below I spent some time under my dash. With my age and size the only way I can get there is with my bench seat taken out and a doubled furniture pad down. Had to call the wife to get me out after lol. --- As the picture shows its hard to see wire colors/stripes or their origins. Will continue to look and test. Thanks for your help. --- Bill
Yeah, I get that under dash work can be hard, you sometimes need to be a contortionist.

Disconnect the battery and remove that nut on the back of the ignition switch.

You can then unplug the wires from the switch and should be able to pull the connector and wires down a bit
to make it easier to work on and identify the wire colors.

Or just remove the ignition switch from the dash.

It's easy if you know the trick.

The shop manual has the method. Or google search it.

.


Last edited by galaxiex; 05-26-2019 at 10:45 AM.
post #14 of 22 (permalink) Old 05-30-2019, 05:26 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Can You Identify This Under Dash Wire?

[QUOTE=galaxiex;1629580243]Yeah, I get that under dash work can be hard, you sometimes need to be a contortionist.

Disconnect the battery and remove that nut on the back of the ignition switch.

You can then unplug the wires from the switch and should be able to pull the connector and wires down a bit
to make it easier to work on and identify the wire colors.

Or just remove the ignition switch from the dash.

It's easy if you know the trick.

The shop manual has the method. Or google search it.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
.
Interesting development. Let me know if I tested this right. ---- The ignition switch on wire that we have been talking about here from the key on position, runs through the resistor, and then on to the positive coil post Right? My wife controlled the ignition key while I used my tester on 20V DC mode. I put the positive probe into the + wire connector at the coil, and grounded my tester to the engine block. The DC voltage with the key on position read the exact actual battery voltage of the high 12 volt range. I thought that after the current runs through the resistor the voltage should be like 5 or 6 volts at the coil. .

So, am I right in thinking that if the engine was running and the generator at full regulated voltage output, then the coil would be getting that higher voltage directly to its positive terminal? Is that a problem?????

Sitting here thinking, the last owner gave me lots of pictures of the last 15 years of the Gals history. I can see that at one time it had an electronic ignition set up. I believe he returned it to the stock dual point distributor when he sold it thinking it was more valuable as an original setup. Can anyone shed any light on this?

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post #15 of 22 (permalink) Old 05-30-2019, 06:22 PM
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Re: Can You Identify This Under Dash Wire?

[quote=fordwilly;1629580393]
Quote:
Originally Posted by galaxiex View Post
Yeah, I get that under dash work can be hard, you sometimes need to be a contortionist.

Disconnect the battery and remove that nut on the back of the ignition switch.

You can then unplug the wires from the switch and should be able to pull the connector and wires down a bit
to make it easier to work on and identify the wire colors.

Or just remove the ignition switch from the dash.

It's easy if you know the trick.

The shop manual has the method. Or google search it.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
.
Interesting development. Let me know if I tested this right. ---- The ignition switch on wire that we have been talking about here from the key on position, runs through the resistor, and then on to the positive coil post Right? My wife controlled the ignition key while I used my tester on 20V DC mode. I put the positive probe into the + wire connector at the coil, and grounded my tester to the engine block. The DC voltage with the key on position read the exact actual battery voltage of the high 12 volt range. I thought that after the current runs through the resistor the voltage should be like 5 or 6 volts at the coil. .

So, am I right in thinking that if the engine was running and the generator at full regulated voltage output, then the coil would be getting that higher voltage directly to its positive terminal? Is that a problem?????

Sitting here thinking, the last owner gave me lots of pictures of the last 15 years of the Gals history. I can see that at one time it had an electronic ignition set up. I believe he returned it to the stock dual point distributor when he sold it thinking it was more valuable as an original setup. Can anyone shed any light on this?
If the points are open when you make that test with your meter, then the voltage at the coil + will read full battery voltage.

There is a voltage drop through a resistor ONLY when it is a complete circuit.

If the points are open, the circuit is not complete.

You would have to make sure the points are closed and re-do the test. Or simply put a jumper wire from coil minus to engine block ground.

If the resistor wire is in the harness and hooked up, then with the points closed, (or a jumper to ground)
you should get a reading of something less than battery voltage. ~9 or 10 volts.
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