351W overheating- HELP PLEASE!?!?! - Page 3 - Ford Muscle Forums : Ford Muscle Cars Tech Forum
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post #31 of 77 (permalink) Old 05-19-2010, 06:13 AM
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Re: 351W overheating- HELP PLEASE!?!?!

Take the heads back off and check the block for cracks, also check the surface of the block.

Bubbles mean combustion gasses are getting into the cooling system, which to me, does not mean a blockage, but a failure of a seal or gasket.

The reason I inquired about Temp that it overheated at is simply because sometimes they're bad and you're not overheating at all. This is not the case after reading your last couple posts. You said Boiling out, which you failed to mention in all of your previous posts.

I say a cracked head or failed head gasket... again....
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post #32 of 77 (permalink) Old 05-19-2010, 06:25 AM Thread Starter
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Re: 351W overheating- HELP PLEASE!?!?!

Thanks FE.

Do you think, maybe a unseen blockage causing it to overheat and blow the head gasket again?? I'm confident in my skills to clean the block face and reinstall the heads. I dont think I did anything wrong.

I more piece of information (sorry only witing it as it comes to me), while cleaning the deck surfaces, I blew out any lose gasket bits with compressed air. I noticed that the coolant level in the rear water jackets of the block was still at deck height. I thought this would have already drained out as lower radiator hose was off. Didnt think to much of it at the time but now I'm thinking did it indicate a blockage in the back of the block in this area?

What do you think?

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post #33 of 77 (permalink) Old 05-19-2010, 08:01 AM
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Re: 351W overheating- HELP PLEASE!?!?!

The coolant passages likely retain a little smudgy amount rust flakes and grime but having coolant in the rear at the level of the deck is normal.

I don't know if the gasket is blown again or if the deck has an inconsistency that was not noticed or if you have a cracked cylinder wall, or if the machinists screwed when they Pressure tested your aluminum heads.

If it was as simple as blockage in the rear of the block you might find evidence of it when you take of the heads again. Teh gaskets will be as perfect as the day you put them in but will have had the "crush" put to them from the tightening sequence, if there is an error you will be able to see it in the gasket surface possibly. Remove the heads carefully.

I wish you luck!
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post #34 of 77 (permalink) Old 05-23-2010, 07:53 AM Thread Starter
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Re: 351W overheating- HELP PLEASE!?!?!

Hi All,
Another update.
I removed the heads AGAIN this weekend and found... nothing! Heads appear great, gaskets were fine and I cant find any signs of a crack in the cylinders. Also checked all water galleries and no problem there- actually cleaner then last time with all the effort put in. I suppose the next step is to take the block out anyway, and see if the machine shop can fault it?? Failling that, I cant think what to try next!

Cheers

1963 Galaxie 500 convertible
1964 Galaxie 500XL Fastback
1971 Galaxie 500 2Dr
3 x 1964 Galaxie 500 sedans
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post #35 of 77 (permalink) Old 05-24-2010, 02:34 AM Thread Starter
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Re: 351W overheating- HELP PLEASE!?!?!

This must be getting TOO technical for you guys out there in Fordmuscle land, oh well I'll keep you updated anyway.

Spoke to the machine shop guy today - he suggested check to piston heght in relation to the deck. Apparently it should be 1mm below deck height. So I checked it when I got home. Pistons are 1mm ABOVE deck height! Too much compression??!!

Apprently this can be somewhat unnoticable, while running in a heavy vehicle (didint have any signs of pinging etc..), but can cause the exact symtoms. Especially as No 7 cylinder (the one that seems to be overheating ) has the worst cooling on a 351 windsor block.

Any thoughts??

1963 Galaxie 500 convertible
1964 Galaxie 500XL Fastback
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3 x 1964 Galaxie 500 sedans
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post #36 of 77 (permalink) Old 05-24-2010, 02:54 AM Thread Starter
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Re: 351W overheating- HELP PLEASE!?!?!

Thicker head gasket??

1963 Galaxie 500 convertible
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3 x 1964 Galaxie 500 sedans
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post #37 of 77 (permalink) Old 05-24-2010, 04:24 AM
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Re: 351W overheating- HELP PLEASE!?!?!

Over heating issues are not that hard to diagnose. For what you have spent on pulling heads you could have bought a block tester kit to help confirm whether or not combustion gases are getting into the coolant. With any over heating issue you need to make sure the main players are in good working condition, thermostat (and installed correctly), radiaitor, air flow and water pump. If this is a vehicle you dont know much history about then you need to consider that the radiator may have been swapped with a smaller one. Another issue that can cause over heating is ignition timing. Make sure its set correctly. If the top radiator hose stays cool and water is being forced out the radiator that would indicate that water isnt flowing because of the thermostat or water pump. Make sure you have the correct rotation water pump. If water isnt flowing the top hose will not get hot and water pressure will flow backwards through the water pump and you will have a hard over flow from the radiator. If water is flowing you can see this through the radiator cap hole.
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post #38 of 77 (permalink) Old 05-24-2010, 04:28 AM
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Re: 351W overheating- HELP PLEASE!?!?!

Quote:
Originally Posted by galman View Post
This must be getting TOO technical for you guys out there in Fordmuscle land, oh well I'll keep you updated anyway.

Spoke to the machine shop guy today - he suggested check to piston heght in relation to the deck. Apparently it should be 1mm below deck height. So I checked it when I got home. Pistons are 1mm ABOVE deck height! Too much compression??!!

Apprently this can be somewhat unnoticable, while running in a heavy vehicle (didint have any signs of pinging etc..), but can cause the exact symtoms. Especially as No 7 cylinder (the one that seems to be overheating ) has the worst cooling on a 351 windsor block.

Any thoughts??
got a low tech question for you galman. how much air psi do I need to ADD to my tires ? must be correct to 1/10 lbs.
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post #39 of 77 (permalink) Old 05-24-2010, 06:20 AM Thread Starter
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Re: 351W overheating- HELP PLEASE!?!?!

Hi guys,

Arnoldtx- All things you have suggested have been carried out many times and definatley eliminated. I think i looking for something out of the ordinary here.
DanH- your insightful reply is as much as I would expect from you. Keep it up TOOL!!

1963 Galaxie 500 convertible
1964 Galaxie 500XL Fastback
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3 x 1964 Galaxie 500 sedans
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post #40 of 77 (permalink) Old 05-24-2010, 07:04 AM
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Re: 351W overheating- HELP PLEASE!?!?!

Galman,

I think your machine shop has sent you on a wild goose chase. The piston deck height will have nothing to do with your overheating issue. Many of us build engines with the pistons above the deck to get a good quench. You know it is too much if the piston is hitting the head!

DanH can be a little abrasive at times (OK, very abrasive and often), but I think his point is that deck height has noting at all to do with your overheat issues. Not even close.

Overheating has a simple cause. Always.

Did you pressure test the system? Did you check for combustion gasses in the coolant? Did you confirm that the thermostat is working and installed correctly? Did you confirm that the water pump is spinning in the proper direction? Did you confirm that the head gaskets were installed correctly (holes toward the rear)?

If the answer to any of the above questions is "no", then you just haven't checked everything yet. Or worse, you are looking in the wrong place!


JC - \'68 Fastback


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post #41 of 77 (permalink) Old 05-24-2010, 07:11 AM
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Re: 351W overheating- HELP PLEASE!?!?!

Did you ever get a temp gauge on it like i suggested? A digital infra-red thermometer to test the intake temp the exhaust temp the water pump temp, the radiator upper and lower temp, Etc... is supremely helpful in identifying where the heat is going and where it it NOT and how much is genuinely there.
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post #42 of 77 (permalink) Old 05-24-2010, 03:02 PM
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Re: 351W overheating- HELP PLEASE!?!?!

Quote:
Originally Posted by galman View Post
Hi guys,

Arnoldtx- All things you have suggested have been carried out many times and definatley eliminated. I think i looking for something out of the ordinary here.
DanH- your insightful reply is as much as I would expect from you. Keep it up TOOL!!
from your statement on to much(answer to your problem) for this forum . I came up with that . why did I know you would'nt get it ? the point that is . very simple fix to the problem btw
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post #43 of 77 (permalink) Old 05-24-2010, 03:21 PM
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Re: 351W overheating- HELP PLEASE!?!?!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bullitt331 View Post
not true!
there is a few times that it not true , like no Tstat and bleed holes . for the most part when there is a overheating problem with a Tstat it's best to say its100% true
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post #44 of 77 (permalink) Old 05-24-2010, 03:26 PM
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Re: 351W overheating- HELP PLEASE!?!?!

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Originally Posted by FEandGoingBroke View Post
Ditto! You are 100% correct!
must meet the requirements to be not true . you would be in a lot of claim courts if you total believe that.
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post #45 of 77 (permalink) Old 05-24-2010, 04:41 PM
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Re: 351W overheating- HELP PLEASE!?!?!

Quote:
Originally Posted by danh
engine must be hot to completely fill the cooling system

Quote:
not true!
The statement in red as in reference to the statement quoted above it, is indeed, 100% True and Unbiased FACT...
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