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post #16 of 51 (permalink) Old 11-01-2015, 02:00 PM
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Re: Whats the MAX you can port Victor Jr Heads??

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Originally Posted by frdnut View Post
I am sure Dennis meant to say 320-330 Cfm range
Post has been corrected to reflect my Oooops.

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65' Stang Street/Strip. Dart 434W NA, Victor heads, G101A 4 Spd, 4:56 rear gear, on 93 octane pushing 3550lbs. [email protected]
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post #17 of 51 (permalink) Old 11-01-2015, 03:05 PM
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Re: Whats the MAX you can port Victor Jr Heads??

jUST GOT OFF THE PHONE WITH THE GY THAT i WOKED WITH PORTING HEADS AND SUCH. wERE BOTH SEMI RETIRED. He couldnt remember porting a ford VrSr did some chevy stuff. think we went through 3 or 4 different intakes to match up to his brothers SBC flowing in the 360ish range think we got within 30 CFM of the heads flow dont remember what intake he ended up with. But it wasnt a tunnel ram I
know we tried that.
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post #18 of 51 (permalink) Old 11-02-2015, 03:02 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Whats the MAX you can port Victor Jr Heads??

[QUOTE=dennis111;2432537]Your not going to find an absolute flow limit for your head. Too many variables with different porters and different flow benches. Best you can do is search the internet articles and if it sounds too far fetched, it probably is. Check Fox Lake Racing or Bennet as they are both known good porters of your heads. I'd take a wild guess and say that the 320-330 (post corrected) range would be pretty much it IF larger valves are also installed to take advantage of the flow. That could put a 3000lb car into the high 9's or low 10's.

If you really, really want to go this route, contact MCRP (Mike Curio) in PA or Duane Bush in NC and you'll have one of the baddest set of heads out there. I'd say that you'll also have well over $1500 more in them, plus the matched ported Super Victor intake will also set you back close to $750 just in labor. Small tube headers will then become a concern and you'll need to step up to 1 7/8 or 2" primary tube headers to take advantage of all that work.

Without some type of power adder, you're not going to reach 600 wheel HP with the Vic Jr, even if max ported. Your going to need to look either at the 240+ cc high ports, ported Victors, or build a Clevor with a decent aftermarket head.

I would also suggest getting your suspension and drivetrain in order now before adding that much HP. That is every bit as critical, if not more, than engine HP. You should be able to run an 11.50 with the power you already have. Also do what you can to lighten the car up as much as possible and strengthen the weak points.[/QUOTE


Drivetrain is in orders, I just need to find a shop that can adjust my suspension so I can hook and 1.6 60'. If I can do that I can I believe 11.5 or lower should be achievable. I would like 10's, but with a 3.70 ratio I don't think I have enough gearing.

2012 CTS-V Coupe stock for now. 68 Falcon Futura. 408W Boss 351 block TKO 600 5spd currie 9" 3.70 ratio. Coilover suspension. 11.912 @118 MPH with only 1.8 60'
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post #19 of 51 (permalink) Old 11-02-2015, 03:17 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Whats the MAX you can port Victor Jr Heads??

@ frdnut Are you running a manual trans and what is your gearing and suspension? Thanks.

2012 CTS-V Coupe stock for now. 68 Falcon Futura. 408W Boss 351 block TKO 600 5spd currie 9" 3.70 ratio. Coilover suspension. 11.912 @118 MPH with only 1.8 60'
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post #20 of 51 (permalink) Old 11-02-2015, 10:39 AM
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Re: Whats the MAX you can port Victor Jr Heads??

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Originally Posted by DIAMONDBACK View Post
@ frdnut Are you running a manual trans and what is your gearing and suspension? Thanks.
Yes I am running a toploader. Rear end is a 9 inch with a 4:11 detroit locker. The front suspension consists of roller upper arms and spring perches with six cylinder springs. CE 3 way adjustable shocks that will be replaced soon with the Calvert 90/10s.
My rear suspension has caltracs and the calvert 9 way adjustable shocks. I am still running what I believe is the original 1968 rear leaf springs and I need to change them out. I will probably get the calvert split monos to match the rest of the parts.
So far I have a best 60ft of 1.68 that I have only achieved once. I am running a set of smallish ET street tires and have had a hard time hooking. Typical 60 fts are in the 1.80ish range and I am trying to get that down to at least low 1.60s. The caltracs and rear shocks are new to me so I have some experimenting to do to try and improve my 60s. I am also hoping to try some full on slicks this summer.


1968 mustang 408W Hybrid..Burns gas and rubber!
[email protected] with a crappy 1.72 60ft.

Last edited by frdnut; 11-02-2015 at 10:41 AM.
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post #21 of 51 (permalink) Old 11-02-2015, 05:03 PM
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Re: Whats the MAX you can port Victor Jr Heads??

what cam, intake, carb and exhaust do you have?


flow chart for heads ported by bes racing.

BES / Edelbrock Victor Jr. SBF Heads ? BES Racing Engines


you can get in the 10's with afr 205's, you do no need the 225's.

an unported vic jr intake will also get you there but you'll get maybe 320 cfm from a moderately ported one.
.

Last edited by barnett468; 11-02-2015 at 05:11 PM.
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post #22 of 51 (permalink) Old 11-02-2015, 06:44 PM
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Re: Whats the MAX you can port Victor Jr Heads??

bASED ON ALL THE HEADS AND INTAKES i have flowed and ported guessing a fully ported VrJr one might get 230 give or take out of one bolted to well ported head would be around 360 or so free flow possibly.
Think porting a bogus boss intake only did about 260 or 270 fuzzy on that one was about 6 or 7 years ago.
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post #23 of 51 (permalink) Old 11-03-2015, 01:05 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Whats the MAX you can port Victor Jr Heads??

Quote:
Originally Posted by frdnut View Post
Yes I am running a toploader. Rear end is a 9 inch with a 4:11 detroit locker. The front suspension consists of roller upper arms and spring perches with six cylinder springs. CE 3 way adjustable shocks that will be replaced soon with the Calvert 90/10s.
My rear suspension has caltracs and the calvert 9 way adjustable shocks. I am still running what I believe is the original 1968 rear leaf springs and I need to change them out. I will probably get the calvert split monos to match the rest of the parts.
So far I have a best 60ft of 1.68 that I have only achieved once. I am running a set of smallish ET street tires and have had a hard time hooking. Typical 60 fts are in the 1.80ish range and I am trying to get that down to at least low 1.60s. The caltracs and rear shocks are new to me so I have some experimenting to do to try and improve my 60s. I am also hoping to try some full on slicks this summer.
That's a pretty good setup and it seems like you know the adjustments needed to run quicker times. I'm running mickey Thompson ET streets 275 50 15's and I let pressure down to 17 psi on my last and fastest run to date: 11.912 @ 118.56 with a 1.869 60'. I've only made about 12 passes on the entire car/setup so I'm hoping to get down to where you are or even hopefully bottom 11's. Not sure if 3.70 final drive ratio is hurting me. I have a Detroit true-trac as opposed to Detroit locker. I mad 472 RWHP and 527 RWTQ through TKO 600 and 9". What's your setup motor wise? Have you dynod it? Not that it matters, but just curious. Thanks>

2012 CTS-V Coupe stock for now. 68 Falcon Futura. 408W Boss 351 block TKO 600 5spd currie 9" 3.70 ratio. Coilover suspension. 11.912 @118 MPH with only 1.8 60'
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post #24 of 51 (permalink) Old 11-03-2015, 03:29 AM
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Re: Whats the MAX you can port Victor Jr Heads??

Quote:
Originally Posted by DIAMONDBACK View Post
I'm running mickey Thompson ET streets 275 50 15's and I let pressure down to 17 psi on my last and fastest run to date: 11.912 @ 118.56 with a 1.869 60'. Not sure if 3.70 final drive ratio is hurting me. I have a Detroit true-trac as opposed to Detroit locker.
A few things stand out here. First a radial slick is not ideal for a stick car which needs a stiffer side wall. The radial is not a forgiving when hit hard at launch and once it starts spinning you will be done. A bias type slick can recover. Tubes and a stiff wall slick could do wonders in your 60'er. I once had small Hoosier bias QTF's on rims just for the track and they stuck quite well. Determined people can make the radial work with a stick, but it generally takes a racing clutch that slips, ideal suspension, good track conditions, and lots of runs to get it to work most of the time. Even then, once it spins its done. Some stick racers have done well with the bias ET streets, which have the same traction compound as the stiff wall slicks.

I don't think that the 3.70 is hurting you yet, at least at launch. It actually might be helping the ET streets to maintain traction. The higher numerical ratio you go, the less traction you will have at launch. I did the 3.70 for a couple of years and then traded up to a 4.11 and saw virtually no change in how the car ran at the time. Eventually I decided to match my gear to the desired crossing RPM's and settled on a 4.33. Irregardless each change in gear required some changes in the suspension setup for it to hook the same as before.

I also once ran a True-trac because my car IS ALSO a street car and it sounded idea. As I got faster at the track (11.5's) I found that the rear end of the car would slide right most of the time, left some times, and go straight occasionally at launch. It couldn't be tuned out with the suspension. The kick wasn't bad but I had to be on my guard and it would steer out. Once the True Trac broke I switched to a spool and the kicking went away 100% and I experience nice straight launches almost continually. The car still sees street duty with the spool, but it took some getting used too.

Dennis

65' Stang Street/Strip. Dart 434W NA, Victor heads, G101A 4 Spd, 4:56 rear gear, on 93 octane pushing 3550lbs. [email protected]

Last edited by dennis111; 11-03-2015 at 03:33 AM.
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post #25 of 51 (permalink) Old 11-03-2015, 06:39 AM
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Re: Whats the MAX you can port Victor Jr Heads??

dEPENDING ON rpmS OF YOUR TORQ AND hp CURVES a 3.70 gear might be just right. Shift points and RPm THROUGH traps currently?

SOME slicks could help a lot
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post #26 of 51 (permalink) Old 11-03-2015, 09:38 AM
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Re: Whats the MAX you can port Victor Jr Heads??

Quote:
Originally Posted by DIAMONDBACK View Post
That's a pretty good setup and it seems like you know the adjustments needed to run quicker times. I'm running mickey Thompson ET streets 275 50 15's and I let pressure down to 17 psi on my last and fastest run to date: 11.912 @ 118.56 with a 1.869 60'. I've only made about 12 passes on the entire car/setup so I'm hoping to get down to where you are or even hopefully bottom 11's. Not sure if 3.70 final drive ratio is hurting me. I have a Detroit true-trac as opposed to Detroit locker. I mad 472 RWHP and 527 RWTQ through TKO 600 and 9". What's your setup motor wise? Have you dynod it? Not that it matters, but just curious. Thanks>
No I haven't dyno'd it I just use the mph at the track as a gauge to the power I am making. Keep that in mind as you tune. The mph is how much power you are making and your ET is how efficiently you are using it. I have a basic tuneup on the engine but honestly I haven't tried any timing or jetting changes at the track because I can't get down the power that I have now.
My engine is a 408 with 10.7:1 compression. Out of the box vic jr heads and intake,holley 950HP (830cfm) from prosystems and a custom solid roller camshaft from Jay Allen. My headers are hooker 6208s but they do have a bit of a port mismatch with the vic jr heads which likely hurts power a bit.(too narrow).
I am running a centerforce dual friction clutch in the toploader.
As for gearing and tires I would listen to Dennis as he has spent lots of $ trying and breaking stuff at the strip. He is a wealth of knowledge when it comes to running these old fords with manual trans.


1968 mustang 408W Hybrid..Burns gas and rubber!
[email protected] with a crappy 1.72 60ft.

Last edited by frdnut; 11-03-2015 at 09:43 AM.
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post #27 of 51 (permalink) Old 11-03-2015, 11:28 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Whats the MAX you can port Victor Jr Heads??

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Originally Posted by dennis111 View Post
A few things stand out here. First a radial slick is not ideal for a stick car which needs a stiffer side wall. The radial is not a forgiving when hit hard at launch and once it starts spinning you will be done. A bias type slick can recover. Tubes and a stiff wall slick could do wonders in your 60'er. I once had small Hoosier bias QTF's on rims just for the track and they stuck quite well. Determined people can make the radial work with a stick, but it generally takes a racing clutch that slips, ideal suspension, good track conditions, and lots of runs to get it to work most of the time. Even then, once it spins its done. Some stick racers have done well with the bias ET streets, which have the same traction compound as the stiff wall slicks.

I don't think that the 3.70 is hurting you yet, at least at launch. It actually might be helping the ET streets to maintain traction. The higher numerical ratio you go, the less traction you will have at launch. I did the 3.70 for a couple of years and then traded up to a 4.11 and saw virtually no change in how the car ran at the time. Eventually I decided to match my gear to the desired crossing RPM's and settled on a 4.33. Irregardless each change in gear required some changes in the suspension setup for it to hook the same as before.

I also once ran a True-trac because my car IS ALSO a street car and it sounded idea. As I got faster at the track (11.5's) I found that the rear end of the car would slide right most of the time, left some times, and go straight occasionally at launch. It couldn't be tuned out with the suspension. The kick wasn't bad but I had to be on my guard and it would steer out. Once the True Trac broke I switched to a spool and the kicking went away 100% and I experience nice straight launches almost continually. The car still sees street duty with the spool, but it took some getting used too.
Yeah I too have had the car fishtail out of 1st and 2nd gear and find myself shifting into 3rd (before i want) to get the car heading straight down the track. As for the rear end, It is a street car with occasional strip duty. Don't have too many passes just yet, but I plan to run her more often at the track. As far as the true track goes, I'm guessing it goes true track, Detroit locker, then the spool in that order? I only launch the car @ about 1200-1500 RPM because it will blow the tires off. I was told that I should be launching @ around 3500-4000 and that the car should dead hook and run hard (when it's dialed in correctly). Anyways, what size and tire make/model are you running now? I'm running the Centerforce dual friction clutch by the way. Just want to say thanks again for your expertise.

2012 CTS-V Coupe stock for now. 68 Falcon Futura. 408W Boss 351 block TKO 600 5spd currie 9" 3.70 ratio. Coilover suspension. 11.912 @118 MPH with only 1.8 60'
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post #28 of 51 (permalink) Old 11-03-2015, 11:45 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Whats the MAX you can port Victor Jr Heads??

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Originally Posted by turbo2256b View Post
dEPENDING ON rpmS OF YOUR TORQ AND hp CURVES a 3.70 gear might be just right. Shift points and RPm THROUGH traps currently?

SOME slicks could help a lot
My shift point at the traps are around 4,200-4,500 in 4th gear through the traps. My shift points in 1st and 2nd are cut short because it gets squirley around 5,000 RPM, but i normally spin 3rd to about 6,200. It feels nicely spread out through the gears. I'm running comp cams hyd roller part # 35-601-8. Ported Vic Jrs. 308 CFM @ 600 lift and 224 CFM @ 600 through a port matched Vic Jr. intake. The builder told me the motor would spin to 7,000, but it will stop making power @ 6,500. 35-601-8 - Thumpr? Retro-Fit Hydraulic Roller Camshafts According to the cam card the power band is from 2200-5900 RPM.

2012 CTS-V Coupe stock for now. 68 Falcon Futura. 408W Boss 351 block TKO 600 5spd currie 9" 3.70 ratio. Coilover suspension. 11.912 @118 MPH with only 1.8 60'
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post #29 of 51 (permalink) Old 11-03-2015, 11:56 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Whats the MAX you can port Victor Jr Heads??

By the way guys; I kinda feel like my cam is a little small for my setup. I
I want more power NA: like bumping up compression to 12:1 and running E85. And stepping up to a solid roller and going from the Holley HP 750 to the HP 950 carb. How much more power is on the table through let's say decking the heads to achieve 12:1 and running the fore mentioned components?

2012 CTS-V Coupe stock for now. 68 Falcon Futura. 408W Boss 351 block TKO 600 5spd currie 9" 3.70 ratio. Coilover suspension. 11.912 @118 MPH with only 1.8 60'
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post #30 of 51 (permalink) Old 11-03-2015, 03:55 PM
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Re: Whats the MAX you can port Victor Jr Heads??

Quote:
Originally Posted by DIAMONDBACK View Post
As far as the true track goes, I'm guessing it goes true track, Detroit locker, then the spool in that order?
Yes, that is the way I would interpret them. A "soft" Detroit locker would be great for street/strip car.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DIAMONDBACK View Post
I only launch the car @ about 1200-1500 RPM because it will blow the tires off. I was told that I should be launching @ around 3500-4000 and that the car should dead hook and run hard (when it's dialed in correctly). Anyways, what size and tire make/model are you running now? I'm running the Centerforce dual friction clutch by the way.
A little background about my car first. The first year we went to the dragstrip it had a 393w, Procomp 210 heads, custom SFT cam, Vic Jr intake, 750HP carb, 1 3/4" headers, Centerforce DF clutch, 2.78 first gear top loader, True Track with 3.70 gears, QTF 8" wide Bias streets, and Caltracs. I let the clutch fly between 3500-4000 rpm's and surprisingly the car hooked. I was able to run high 1.58 60'ers. Ran pretty consistent 12.0x until the fall and then it pulled out an [email protected] on 26x8" slicks the last night of the year. Motor made about 360hp. That combo sounds very similar to what you currently have. The following year with some tuning and a 950HP carb I was hitting 117mph in the high 11's.

Next I swapped out the Procomp 210's for a used pair of AFR 205's. With everything else being basically the same, the 393w became an entirely different animal. On the same 8" wide stiff wall drag slick I was hitting [email protected] Broke the True Trac and went with a spool. With a swap to a roller cam and a slipper racing clutch it ran 11.20's before loosing a lifter killed the block.

After that it got crazy as I mini-tubbed so that I could use the 28x10.5 stiff wall slicks (which is what I run now.) The 427w was built, the Jerico was added. 4.33 gears. Pump gas 93octane has always been a requirement. The car had 213 track runs this year and a little over 1000 miles of street driving. Believe it or not, its actually quite docile on the street.

Sorry for the long story but hopefully you will see that I started out very similar to you and was never satisfied and I am always yearning for more.

Dennis

65' Stang Street/Strip. Dart 434W NA, Victor heads, G101A 4 Spd, 4:56 rear gear, on 93 octane pushing 3550lbs. [email protected]
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