Cam for 5.0 with AFR 165 Heads - Ford Muscle Forums : Ford Muscle Cars Tech Forum
 
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post #1 of 12 (permalink) Old 02-10-2003, 04:38 PM Thread Starter
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Cam for 5.0 with AFR 165 Heads

Thinking about rebuilding the motor in my 90 GT. Preferably using the stock rods and crank. It has 209,000 miles and still runs well.

Looking at AFR 165 Heads and Cobra or other similar EFI intake. I want it to have a smooth idle, decent low end power, emissions friendly, work with the stock AFR valve springs and of course put 300+ horsepower to the crank. For some reason 320 keeps sticking in my mind as a good target.

I keep hearing that the E303 cam does not idle very smooth. Most of the cams in the 218 to 220 at .05 duration range have .530 or higher lift which I guess is a little too much.

Does what I am shooting for sound reasonable? If so what would be a good cam choice?

--Thanks
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post #2 of 12 (permalink) Old 02-10-2003, 08:48 PM
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Cam for 5.0 with AFR 165 Heads

The first cam that I tried in my 85GT was the E cam. It has a bit of a lope at idle, but smooths right out with a bit of throttle. For a mild combo its still a great little cam.
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post #3 of 12 (permalink) Old 02-11-2003, 09:28 AM
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Cam for 5.0 with AFR 165 Heads

Good choice on the AFR's, little more pricy than the other guys, but worth it! Look into the Edelbrock intake as well, it flows a tad more than the GT 40 styles, which may compliment your AFR's more. As for a cam, you are right most of the cams have lift in the .530-.550" range. They do this to work both for normally aspirated and blower applications. Lift does not effect driveability (to within reason). I've found a couple of cams that may do what you want. The first is the Trick flow (Part No TFS51402000) Stage 1 cam. It has 221in/225exh degrees duration (@0.50" lift) with .499"in/.510"exh and 112 degrees lobe seperation. I've talked with the guys at Trick flow about this grind, and they claim it idles pretty smooth, at 112 lobe seperation they are probably not fibbing. The cam is not emissions certified, but I heard thru the grapevine it will pass a sniff test. The Crane cam 2031 (originally designed as 93 Cobra cam replacement) might be a good choice it has 214in/220exh duration with 512"in/529"exh lift but thats with 1.7 rockers. Using 1.6's will bring that down to .482"/498" lift, this cam is also certified, and idles pretty nice. One cam I like is the Lunati 51023 grind, it has 215in/224exh duration and .522" lift with 112 lobe seperation. Once again the cam is not certified, but with specs like that I'll bet it passes a sniffer test. I would spend the extra doe on upgraded valve springs that can handle 0.55 - 0.60" lift, you won't be sorry. The E cam has a bit of lope to it, but it's not bad, if its ultra stealth your looking for, stick with the stock cam, it's actually not so bad, just move up to 1.7 rockers to take advantage of the AFR's flow potential. Your idle will always be OK as long as the lobe seperation is around 116-112, the lower you go the lumpier it gets. (incidently the stock cam is 118 lobe seperation) When all is said and done, you will be pushing about 300 hp at the fly wheel, but with cams I listed above, you can strap on a blower, and that will jump past 400 faster than you can say chevy sucks!

...JP
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post #4 of 12 (permalink) Old 02-11-2003, 10:18 AM Thread Starter
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Cam for 5.0 with AFR 165 Heads

Thanks,

I finally found a cam by competition cams that seems good as well. It is an XE270HR .512/.512 with 218 Intake, 224 Exhaust at .05 and 114 lsa. I am not sure if it is emissions certified or not. I am assuming with these specs the idle will be decent.

AFR says the stock valve springs are good for .550 lift and 5800 - 6000 rpm. I believe they sell the heads with upgraded valve springs but I am not sure if they are installed or not. I do not want to fool around with having a shop mess with the heads if I can help it.
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post #5 of 12 (permalink) Old 02-11-2003, 10:29 AM
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Cam for 5.0 with AFR 165 Heads

I've spoken to a couple cam manufacturers and I've been told, many of the cams out there will pass emissions, but they don't want to spend the time or money to go get certificates, I guess it costs to much money. Good call on the dual pattern as well, I forgot to mention this before, Ford heads (even the AFR's) stand to benifit from this. This is why I would never get a Ford Racing cam....their all square
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post #6 of 12 (permalink) Old 02-11-2003, 01:37 PM
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Cam for 5.0 with AFR 165 Heads

Square or not, the E303 is good for in excess of 300 horsepower at the rear wheels normally aspirated in a 302. The shop where I took my car to be dyno'd, Blood Enterprise, had a shop tech's street car with Holley systemax heads and intake and an E303 cam that laid down 300+ to the pavement. That was on a Mustang Dyno that reads conservatively....11% lower than a Dynojet (see mm&ff a couple of issues back). I don't care for the idle, and I am not convinced it's all the cams fault (see E303 drivability post), but it has great range...2000-6000 on my car. I too am considering the AFR 165 heads. I think the small runners and good flow capacity will make for a kick butt normally aspirated street motor.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: sfcrandall on 2/12/03 1:39am ]</font>
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post #7 of 12 (permalink) Old 02-11-2003, 02:53 PM Thread Starter
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Cam for 5.0 with AFR 165 Heads

The question is --> Which would make more power? I would assume they are similar.

Comp cams XE270HR
.512/.512 218/224 114 lsa

or

E303 Ford / Crane 2040
.498/.498 220/220 110 lsa
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post #8 of 12 (permalink) Old 02-11-2003, 03:32 PM
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Cam for 5.0 with AFR 165 Heads

That is a question of the rest of the exhaust in my opinion. The reason a dual pattern cam favoring the exhaust is good for Ford heads is that Ford heads inherently have poor exhaust port design (simple geometrix). The AFR's are likely the best street head out there, but even the AFR's need more exhaust, not to mention about 95% of all street applications use shorty headers....equal length or not this is not optimum for performance. By favouring the exhaust you improve the scavenging in the cylinder head, reducing the amount burnt gas remaining in the cylinder. Sure this is good for emissions, and to a certain degree artificially increases compression thus slightly improving off-idle torque, but the more spent gas you leave in the cylinder, the less unspent gas you can suck into the cylinder, and this issue is magnified at higher RPM's. My opinion is both cams work great on the street giving an unoticable edge to the E cam (and I really mean unoticable)simply because the Comp cams XE270HR uses a 114 lobe seperation vs the E's 112, droping top end power a tad. So all things being equal normally aspirated take your pick, ......BUT....what if you want a blower later on down the road (let face it we all get hungrier for power) the Dual pattern will make a gigantic difference, I'll bet as much as 5%, due to the fact you are force feeding air and fuel through the intake which already flows disproportionally with the exhaust. Remember folks a great cyclinder head will flow when the ratio between the intake and exhaust is 80% exhaust to that of intake flow. A very good head is 70%. Incidently the AFR's are at about 75% (251 cfm through the intake vs 191 through the exhaust). Sticking with Ford cams if Idle is not a concern (nor emissions for that matter) go with the F303, this thing build great power.....even if it is square....
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post #9 of 12 (permalink) Old 02-11-2003, 08:27 PM
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Cam for 5.0 with AFR 165 Heads

I just used the hp calculator on the front page. My 85GT ran a best of 12.21 with E cam. At 3125lbs. thats 301 rear wheel hp. With the 5speed and 4.10's it still got 19mpg.
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post #10 of 12 (permalink) Old 02-12-2003, 09:35 AM Thread Starter
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Cam for 5.0 with AFR 165 Heads


I may not have a choice. I have not found any info indicating which cams will pass the sniffer or which one's have certification. Other than the crane 2020, 2030-1 and 2040(E303) cams.

Which brands advertise emissions certification? I could not find anything about Competition cams having certification.
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post #11 of 12 (permalink) Old 02-12-2003, 09:54 AM
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Cam for 5.0 with AFR 165 Heads

Cranes the big player for emissions cams, they seem to be the ones who go out and spend the money on certifcates. I've seen a couple grinds listing CARD EOD numbers, including Lunati, I can't guarantee, but if you choose a cam with similar specs like the crane grinds with emissions certificates, you'll be OK. Check out my comments about the trick flow cams. Call the cam manufacturers, and ask them if they have had any feed back about their cams passing sniffer tests.
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post #12 of 12 (permalink) Old 12-20-2014, 04:11 PM
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Re: Cam for 5.0 with AFR 165 Heads

Quote:
Originally Posted by ibpluto View Post
That is a question of the rest of the exhaust in my opinion. The reason a dual pattern cam favoring the exhaust is good for Ford heads is that Ford heads inherently have poor exhaust port design (simple geometrix). The AFR's are likely the best street head out there, but even the AFR's need more exhaust, not to mention about 95% of all street applications use shorty headers....equal length or not this is not optimum for performance. By favouring the exhaust you improve the scavenging in the cylinder head, reducing the amount burnt gas remaining in the cylinder. Sure this is good for emissions, and to a certain degree artificially increases compression thus slightly improving off-idle torque, but the more spent gas you leave in the cylinder, the less unspent gas you can suck into the cylinder, and this issue is magnified at higher RPM's. My opinion is both cams work great on the street giving an unoticable edge to the E cam (and I really mean unoticable)simply because the Comp cams XE270HR uses a 114 lobe seperation vs the E's 112, droping top end power a tad. So all things being equal normally aspirated take your pick, ......BUT....what if you want a blower later on down the road (let face it we all get hungrier for power) the Dual pattern will make a gigantic difference, I'll bet as much as 5%, due to the fact you are force feeding air and fuel through the intake which already flows disproportionally with the exhaust. Remember folks a great cyclinder head will flow when the ratio between the intake and exhaust is 80% exhaust to that of intake flow. A very good head is 70%. Incidently the AFR's are at about 75% (251 cfm through the intake vs 191 through the exhaust). Sticking with Ford cams if Idle is not a concern (nor emissions for that matter) go with the F303, this thing build great power.....even if it is square....

I know this is an Old Tread, but I happened to pull it up and Read a few things this Bonehead ibpluto posted... What a complete and utter Moron!
talk about not knowing his ass from a hole in the ground.... Wow!
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