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post #556 of 671 (permalink) Old 01-04-2016, 09:57 AM
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Re: 65' Mustang GT

Never heard of taking coils off the top. By design the normal flat top would seat better in the stationary shock tower, whereas the bottom gets balanced by the rotating spring perch.

You know, this is one area I just never researched? I just went by what others have done, and the springs I took off, had em lopped off the tops.
I think just looking at the spring, the bottom looks more like a machined or farbricated for fit while the top has less of a lay too it, if that makes sense. Just looking at it, it seems like cutting the top off makes more sense...but looks can be decieving.


Project 521 Gydyup - 67 Mustang Coup
521 BBF-Solid Roller -Kaase P51 Heads-Victor-AED Dominator - Jerico DR4, Long Inline Shifter.
Shortened & Mini Tubbed. Strange Nodular 9, Spooled 4:56, Mark Williams Axles.
"old School - WWDD"
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post #557 of 671 (permalink) Old 01-04-2016, 11:29 AM Thread Starter
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Re: 65' Mustang GT

My way of thinking is that all these springs are upside down:



When flipped over they fit the insulator in the shock tower perfectly . . . .

This is the top with insulator installed:





The bottom of the Trick spring may be curved upward to work on the GM cars that are specified using the same spring (or is just a tuning thing.)

Dennis

65' Stang Street/Strip. Dart 434W NA, Victor heads, G101A 4 Spd, 4:56 rear gear, on 93 octane pushing 3550lbs. [email protected]

Last edited by dennis111; 01-04-2016 at 11:34 AM.
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post #558 of 671 (permalink) Old 01-04-2016, 11:46 AM
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Re: 65' Mustang GT

Never heard of taking coils off the top. By design the normal flat top would seat better in the stationary shock tower, whereas the bottom gets balanced by the rotating spring perch.

Well yeah off the top, like you, I think springs are upside down, so I cut off the top which is actually the bottom


Project 521 Gydyup - 67 Mustang Coup
521 BBF-Solid Roller -Kaase P51 Heads-Victor-AED Dominator - Jerico DR4, Long Inline Shifter.
Shortened & Mini Tubbed. Strange Nodular 9, Spooled 4:56, Mark Williams Axles.
"old School - WWDD"
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post #559 of 671 (permalink) Old 01-05-2016, 04:41 PM Thread Starter
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Re: 65' Mustang GT

The new 7721 Victor heads have arrived. Many thanks to Duane Busch for putting his magic on them for me:



Had to chuckle at this since the heads were bought unported and without valves:



















Pac 1324 1.625" OD valve springs with Pac titanium retainers:





Each exhaust port looks identical to this one:





Exhaust ports are raised .52 over the stock location.

Likewise the intake ports all look identical to each other with no sign of a pushrod tube:





The intake ports are raised .375 over the stock location. Sorry that the above photo isn't too clear. It tough to photograph down 5 1/2" of port . . . . .

58.5 cc chambers holding Ferrea 2.150" stainless intake and 1.625" stainless exhaust valves, at a 15* angle vs the stock 20* angle head:



Hard to see but the valves are mirror polished:



The heads look huge but putting on the scale they weighed barely 1/2lb more than the AFR 205's. The shear size also masks the true size of the ports. Case in point, check out this exhaust port with the old AFR gasket overlayed:



The exhaust ports are 1.50" tall, 1.60" wide. The header flanges measure 1 3/4"x 1 3/4". The spec'ed headers have 1 7/8" OD tubes:





The intake ports are also taller, as shown by the gaskets:



Flow sheet:



Engine shots with a vic Jr intake (DB is still porting the Super Vic that goes with the heads):




Dennis

65' Stang Street/Strip. Dart 434W NA, Victor heads, G101A 4 Spd, 4:56 rear gear, on 93 octane pushing 3550lbs. [email protected]

Last edited by dennis111; 01-05-2016 at 04:48 PM.
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post #560 of 671 (permalink) Old 01-06-2016, 08:29 AM
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Re: 65' Mustang GT

Man, those are really sweeeeeeet.


Project 521 Gydyup - 67 Mustang Coup
521 BBF-Solid Roller -Kaase P51 Heads-Victor-AED Dominator - Jerico DR4, Long Inline Shifter.
Shortened & Mini Tubbed. Strange Nodular 9, Spooled 4:56, Mark Williams Axles.
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post #561 of 671 (permalink) Old 01-07-2016, 07:18 PM Thread Starter
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Re: 65' Mustang GT

Because the intake ports on the 7721 heads are raised 3/8" the intake is mounted higher too. That requires end rail spacers to be used on the front and rear of the blocks lifter valley (china wall.) Edelbrock sells an expensive kit with the spacers for both the 8.2 and 9.5 deck height blocks.







The block gets drilled and tapped for 4 screws front and rear that will hold the spacers in place. The spacers will need some additional work to fit around the head, at least on a 351w block. I am still researching that.

Another thing that is needed for a proper installation is an intake lifter that has a .180" offset to better align the pushrods. The head's intake pushrod hole has been relocated slightly to keep it from interfering with the intake port, which it typically does on a SBF. The exhaust pushrod hole has not been relocated and it continues to use a standard center lifter.

I contacted Isky who provided me with the roller lifters I had previously used and they told me they could convert my current lifters to match the needs of the 7721's for a fee. I sent them my old set and told them to do the offset conversion and to rebuild my old lifters that they reused for the conversion:



The roller lifters I sent in looked like these for a center pushrod (but with a connecting tie rod attached:



Here are the modified lifters, note the top are centered lifters and the attached bottoms are offset:



Other than the offset intake seats, the lifters look the same externally:





Currently in the process of manipulating my 1 7/8" header tubes so that they do not make contact with the shock towers, frame, and steering box. Also adapting the headers to use a Z bar. To keep the header flange straight while cutting and welding, I made a jig out of a length of C channel. The jig duplicates the flange mounting of the head:





Being able to clamp the header in a vice has made the work much more manageable. Its a slow process but I have only 1 more tube left that needs manipulate for a good fit on the new heads (using a Z bar.) This step should be completed this coming week.

Dennis

65' Stang Street/Strip. Dart 434W NA, Victor heads, G101A 4 Spd, 4:56 rear gear, on 93 octane pushing 3550lbs. [email protected]

Last edited by dennis111; 01-07-2016 at 07:39 PM.
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post #562 of 671 (permalink) Old 01-09-2016, 08:40 AM
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Re: 65' Mustang GT

Those are wicked flow #'s. Wish I knew about your guy, I got TEA prepped TF Hi-port 240's and they don't flow as good as yours. Mind if I ask what the total cost of the heads was, porting, heads, assembly the whole ball 'o wax? I also don't envy your header mods, I am building some turbo ones from scratch and it is the most challenging thing I have just about ever done.


427 TT, T-56, 9.02 @ 162
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post #563 of 671 (permalink) Old 01-09-2016, 12:40 PM Thread Starter
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Re: 65' Mustang GT

Quote:
Originally Posted by v8Billy View Post
Those are wicked flow #'s. Wish I knew about your guy, I got TEA prepped TF Hi-port 240's and they don't flow as good as yours. Mind if I ask what the total cost of the heads was, porting, heads, assembly the whole ball 'o wax? I also don't envy your header mods, I am building some turbo ones from scratch and it is the most challenging thing I have just about ever done.
Initially the header work seemed tough but it got easier after I messed with the stuff for a while. A chop saw helped a lot and a belt sander would have been great, but I don't own one nor have the space to store one. I do a lot with sawsalls, grinders, and metal files.

After learning on the easy to modify RH side, I went full commando on the LH header by cutting it apart and changing the positions of 3 tubes where they entered the collector. I now have great clearance and can use the Z-bar as desired. Never thought that I could make 1 7/8" headers fit better than the poor fitting 1 3/4" headers I used before. I feel I could build a good pair from scratch now.

PM sent.

Dennis

65' Stang Street/Strip. Dart 434W NA, Victor heads, G101A 4 Spd, 4:56 rear gear, on 93 octane pushing 3550lbs. [email protected]
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post #564 of 671 (permalink) Old 01-11-2016, 05:17 PM Thread Starter
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Re: 65' Mustang GT

I got a pretty good deal on a box of 1 7/8" misc bends from Speedway:



Bought these, but they were not needed. I liked using the Speedway bends since it was easier to visualize the angles when rerouting header tubes:



I started on the RH side since it needed the least amount of work. It was the right move because there was a learning curve to cut, clean, and tack weld.

I moved the tube on the lower right upward and toward the rear to get it off the frame and away from the tower:



I also cut one header tube so I could move it closer toward the motor to get it further away from the tower:



Used my jig when cutting and welding to keep the flange straight:



The modified header doesn't look much different than before, but it fits much nicer in the Mustang engine bay. There is now at least 1/2" clearance between it and any obstruction, such as the shock towers and frame:

Before mods:





After mods:





Feeling confident, I started on the LH side which was much tighter due to the stock steering box. I had to cut tube #7 off just to get the header to slide in place with the head on! Then I determined that #8 wanted to be inside the steering box. We're having fun now . . . . .

Here is the LH header before modifications:





Compare the 2 photos above to the modded header below:





It may not be readily apparent, but I changed the header routing at the collector of 3 tubes. The #5 (firing order) front tube now goes into the collector where #7 used to go. #7 now goes to where #8 went and finally #8 goes to where #5 originally went.

#8 was the tricky one because it was originally located where I needed the Z bar to be. Since none of the tubes were routed behind the Z-bar, I looped the tube slightly upward to clear the steering box, then around the Z-bar, and finally into the header:





The z bar got a little tweaking to clear the header tube:



One issue I found during testing was that the lower fork return spring was going to rub against the tube. To counteract that I added a little dog leg that moved the tube away from the offending area:



I temporarily installed the z-bar, bellhousing, starter, and the transmission to verify all clearances.

The header mods are tacked together using a torch with steel rod. Once I was satisfied with the fit, I took everything down and prepped the headers to be tig welded. 5 total cuts to be tigged on the RH side, 12 on the left:


Dennis

65' Stang Street/Strip. Dart 434W NA, Victor heads, G101A 4 Spd, 4:56 rear gear, on 93 octane pushing 3550lbs. [email protected]

Last edited by dennis111; 01-11-2016 at 06:39 PM.
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post #565 of 671 (permalink) Old 01-12-2016, 07:19 AM
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Re: 65' Mustang GT

See , now your gonna make me hack up my coated headers!
Ive been pondering how to get the 429 Boss clutch Z bar set up to work on mine, and was thinking of relocating that back tube like yours...See how you are, notch frames n mini tubs, header mods. You are contagious.

Ill have to wait and get it all back in the car and study it more. I think I can do it, but now I have so much invested in the hyd linkeage, if it works so be it...but also have a back up idea.

Nice set of lifters, hate to think of what those set you back? I put all mine valve train together Sunday. Adjusting these things with the poly lock and girdle is interesting..I snug the girdle, set the lash a bit loose, hit the keeper and sometimes it works perfect, somtimes it doesnt...I still have not gone back and put the final torque on the valve locks. Comp said to do exactly what I did, but then go back and tq the retainer nut 20ft lbs?

I hope to prime the oil system tonight.

dyno guy is booked up for the next couple weekends, so I have time now to do other things.


Project 521 Gydyup - 67 Mustang Coup
521 BBF-Solid Roller -Kaase P51 Heads-Victor-AED Dominator - Jerico DR4, Long Inline Shifter.
Shortened & Mini Tubbed. Strange Nodular 9, Spooled 4:56, Mark Williams Axles.
"old School - WWDD"
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post #566 of 671 (permalink) Old 01-12-2016, 08:41 AM Thread Starter
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Re: 65' Mustang GT

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gydyup View Post
See , now your gonna make me hack up my coated headers!


I am pleased that I have more than enough room for the Z-bar--better than with the old 1 3/4" headers. Since the new set originally routed all the tubes (somehow) before the Z bar to the collector. There was lots of real estate to run the rear tube.

At first I was a little cautious but after piddling with the RH side I gained enough confidence and knowledge to tackle the LH. It still has a couple of things I don't like, but to correct them would have meant cutting off all the tubes and buying a new collector to get the routing I want.

Next time (if there is one and I had the time) I would probably build them from scratch. It isn't that hard if you have a plan on how you want the tubes to run.
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Dennis

65' Stang Street/Strip. Dart 434W NA, Victor heads, G101A 4 Spd, 4:56 rear gear, on 93 octane pushing 3550lbs. [email protected]

Last edited by dennis111; 01-12-2016 at 08:43 AM.
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post #567 of 671 (permalink) Old 01-17-2016, 04:44 PM Thread Starter
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Re: 65' Mustang GT

While the headers are away being tig welded, I decided to do a little extra clearancing on the shock towers. Primarily, I wanted to round the top of the brace structure that the motor mounts are attached to (the area under the "shelf.") A before photo of the area from last year:



Below you can see the braces on both sides have been sliced, heated, and reformed using a circular chunk of metal:





Once satisfied with the amount of rounding, the seams were welded back together:





Some of the outer shock tower raised areas were ground away to create additional clearance. These areas were beefed up with heavy plate steel last year so grinding a little of the metal away will do no harm.

Primer was added to the bare metal:





Some blocking and re-primering will need to be done before applying the black color coat.

The intake manifold end spacers were also attached to the block. They are needed to take up some of the space created by using raised height heads. This allows any standard intake manifold to be used, instead of a 1 off piece.

As delivered there are no holes in the end spacers so I aid out the locations I wanted to drill. The drill press was then used to drill 4 holes in both the end spacers. Then the spacers were used as a guide to drill the block. It was finished off by tapping the block for the 8-32 bolts, drilling the end spacers holes slightly larger, and then adding a countersink for the bolt heads:



Rear is done:



Front was bolted down too:



The counter sink bit that was used:



The forged pistons are now on order from Racetec. They will come with reliefs cut for the 7721's 15* angle valves and will be good for 11:1 compression.

Dennis

65' Stang Street/Strip. Dart 434W NA, Victor heads, G101A 4 Spd, 4:56 rear gear, on 93 octane pushing 3550lbs. [email protected]

Last edited by dennis111; 01-17-2016 at 04:50 PM.
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post #568 of 671 (permalink) Old 01-19-2016, 10:01 AM
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Re: 65' Mustang GT

Your almost to the point you have the BOSS 429 tower mods in.
I dont know if I ever sent you a pic or you saw one, but the 429 B towers are radiused from the frame, as you have now done, but that continues up across the whole tower face, eliminating that step or shelf you and I both have.
Very clean, those start out at the top as do ours, but radius back further into the spring area, then round down and the face is smooth.

wish i had don that!

So do your header tubes come back across that motor mount, I have #5 straight down and back. then 6, 7, 8 are all behind the mount, and the # 6 tube required nocthing the tower/LCA mount area I think.

pretty work though.


Project 521 Gydyup - 67 Mustang Coup
521 BBF-Solid Roller -Kaase P51 Heads-Victor-AED Dominator - Jerico DR4, Long Inline Shifter.
Shortened & Mini Tubbed. Strange Nodular 9, Spooled 4:56, Mark Williams Axles.
"old School - WWDD"
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post #569 of 671 (permalink) Old 01-19-2016, 02:47 PM Thread Starter
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Re: 65' Mustang GT

There are some peculiarities about the Boss front suspension that I wanted to avoid. IIRC, the whole upper tower is moved outward more toward the wheel wells. I really wanted to mimic the look but didn't want to spend that much time. There is a good build thread on-line somewhere where a guy in Europe first copied the 429 towers and then went back in and cut them out to push the towers out even more. Not sure if it affected the UCA or not--its been a while since I looked at it.

Yes, the forward tubes go over the motor mounts (the headers do not have slip joints.) I use the Ron Morris lowered parallel mounts which allows me to move the motor side to side or fore and aft.

See if these photos help (but you know how hard it is to photograph this tight quartered stuff. )

#5 and 6--you can see the motor mount bracket on the front of the tower:



Another view (disregard the #'s on the headers):





See how close #6 tube is to the motor mount support as marked in a couple of pics above? That has been remedied in the previous post when I rounded the support.

Pitman arm/centerlink clearance with wheels fully turned locked left:



You can see all 4 LH tubes in these photos:







View of #1:



#1 and #2:





#3 and #4:



Good view of #1 and #4 from underneath:



Further to the rear:




No way to get a similar clear routing photos on the driver's side.

Idler arm clearance with wheels fully turned locked right:




Dennis

65' Stang Street/Strip. Dart 434W NA, Victor heads, G101A 4 Spd, 4:56 rear gear, on 93 octane pushing 3550lbs. [email protected]

Last edited by dennis111; 01-20-2016 at 03:20 AM.
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post #570 of 671 (permalink) Old 01-27-2016, 06:41 AM Thread Starter
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Re: 65' Mustang GT

Headers are back from being tigged. I decided not to paint them until after the collector was cut to length for the exhaust. One thing leads to another so I reinstalled the block, heads, headers, bellhousing, transmission and all the supporting brackets to mock all the correct angles and such.

Duane specified a 3.5" exhaust in place of my old 3" stuff for racing. It seems like 1/2" isn't that much (ask the wife LOL) but it looks huge in comparison to smaller exhaust pipe. In all actuality, 3.5" diameter has the same surface area as TWO 2 1/2" pipes!

12 oz Coke can:





A length of aluminized straight pipe was procured as was two 3.5" race bullets, a box of 3.5" misc. bends off ebay that were 2nds, a couple of 3.5" muffler clamps for the hangers, and some 3.5" V clamps to join certain sections of the exhaust together. That is the basic racing exhaust. For the street I will add a removable section that includes Flowmaster reducing cones to drop the pipe size from 3.5" to 3". That leads to a pair of Jones Max Flo stainless ovel mufflers. They look like a turbo muffler but are a straight through design. Same design as Magnaflow, but much, much cheaper. Exit is also 3".

The inside of a Jones Muffler:



The V clamps will be used on the collectors in place of bolt on reducers or ball & socket connections. They will also be used at the transformation from 3.5" pipe to the 3" section.

Here are the band clamps that were used:



They consist of a stainless clamp and 2 steel rings that slip on the tailpipes before being welded in place:





Once installed they offer zero resistance to the exhaust flow.





I tacked the rings in place while the exhaust was being fitted under the car:






Just like on the headers, I found that 1 1/2" masking tape makes an excellent clamp when testing components:



Reused this old clamping location for the race bullets which are shown in place:





Adapting the reducing cone to the muffler:



The fully removable section:



Repeat on the other side of the car and it looks like this (disregard temporary V clamp orientation):









Once satisfied with the fit I dropped the exhaust sections and mig welded all the tacked joints on the passenger's side:





The welds were cleaned up so they can later be covered with silver high temp paint:



Now waiting for the custom forged pistons which will have the necessary 15* valve reliefs cut into them. Should see them by mid February if Racetec keeps to the schedule.

Dennis

65' Stang Street/Strip. Dart 434W NA, Victor heads, G101A 4 Spd, 4:56 rear gear, on 93 octane pushing 3550lbs. [email protected]

Last edited by dennis111; 01-27-2016 at 06:50 AM.
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