Hello all!!! - Ford Muscle Forums : Ford Muscle Cars Tech Forum
 1Likes
  • 1 Post By DesertXL
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
post #1 of 11 (permalink) Old 03-27-2019, 10:04 PM Thread Starter
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2019
Posts: 2
Hello all!!!

New to the forum thing but picking up a 67 Galaxie 500XL fastback Saturday and Im really torn between restoring to original or having fun with it. The car has 29,000 original miles on it and is numbers matching tip to tail with all original equipment. It is however 289 auto.
Came here because I know I will find the support with whatever I decide to do with it
xBeretta is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 11 (permalink) Old 03-28-2019, 09:31 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 23
Re: Hello all!!!

Welcome!
Your car sounds like a nice find!

I'm feeling the same way about restoring my 68XL. It would fulfill a dream to restore it, but I love being able to touch it and not worry about damaging so much.
sixtyeightford is offline  
post #3 of 11 (permalink) Old 03-28-2019, 09:03 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Trenton Mi
Posts: 282
Re: Hello all!!!

Welcome to the forum! I have owned a classic car about all my adult life, and in all that time I have yet not to change something on any of my cars. I guess I'm just a hot rodder at heart and can't change that. Do what make makes you feel good and makes you happy.A stroked small block in your car would be fun and surprise a few people.Roger
gtaroger is offline  
 
post #4 of 11 (permalink) Old 03-29-2019, 10:52 AM Thread Starter
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2019
Posts: 2
Leaving first thing in the morning tomorrow to pick the car up will be starting a thread in making progress to keep anyone interested in my project up to date
xBeretta is offline  
post #5 of 11 (permalink) Old 03-30-2019, 05:59 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Space Coast Florida
Posts: 133
Re: Hello all!!!

OPINION: I love small blocks, but they can't handle the weight of big old iron like a 3750-4000 lb 1967 Galaxie, they just don't have the torque. They might do ok for a while, but they will work hard and wear out fast.



FACT: The 1967 Ford 289 Challenger V8 with Cruise-O-Matic C4 made 200 hp and 282 ft.lb. of torque.

OPINION: Not bad for a 2700 lb 1967 Mustang. I have a similar weight 1970 Maverick and it would be an ok setup in my car

OPINION: Big cars need 400+ torque.

FACTS:

These were the other, factory option, FE big block motors for a 1967 Galaxie 500 XL:
The Thunderbird 390 2bbl Cruise-O-Matic C6 made 275 hp and 405 ft.lb. of torque.
The Thunderbird 390 Special 4 bbl with Cruise-O-Matic C6 or 4-speed manual made 315 hp and 427 ft.lb. of torque.
The Thunderbird 428 with Cruise-O-Matic C6 or 4-speed manual made 345 hp and 462 ft.lb. of torque.
Then there was the developed-for-NASCAR beast developed to fight the Chrysler 426 Hemi: The 427 Cobrajet made 425 hp and a brain twisting 480 ft.lb. of torque. (Ford lied about the 425 hp due to insurance reasons like the Chrysler 426 and Chevy 427 did too about their big blocks, real numbers are probably closer to 440-450 hp and over 500 torque.)
The FE was gradually phased out by the 385 series big block engines that included the 429 and 460 in starting in1968.

What I would do:

I would clean, remove and mothball the 289 Challenger (Windsor) and C4 and save them to put back in if you ever sell it, so it could still be a numbers matching car.
Then I would find, rebuild , and install the best FE I could find and put it with a C6 and a Gearvendors overdrive ($2800).

I found a 1980 429 4bbl from an F700 (no emissions) for $1000 on craigslist this week.


OR



A roller block 385 series 460 (88 & up) mated to a BUILT AOD.

I found a running 1988 E350 460 in a rotting 24 foot RV with 88,000 miles for $350 in my craigslist favorites right now, just in case my son's 76 Ranchero 351M pukes. A 429/460 will bolt up to his existing FMX transmission and uses the same motor mounts.



Put either one of those engines with some 3.55 or 3.80 gears and you will have an impressive performing battle cruiser that tosses around its beefy weight effortlessly.


In 1990 I had a 67 Galaxie 500 XL fastback with a stock 390 2 bbl C6 and 3.25 gears and it was not that fast with 275 hp. Its 405 torque would almost lift the front tires off the pavement, but no top end. 0 to 40 almost instantly, but it didn't like the interstate.


That same car with a 289? I think it's gonna be a dog. I think it's absurd that they even offered the small block 289 or a 240 Big 6 (the 300's daddy) in this car as the base motor.


1967 was a 1-year only body style for the Galaxie. In 1967 the designation "fastback" was not used for the car you are getting or the one I had. They used it in 1968. In 1967 it was just a Galaxie 500XL 2 door. It was the only 2 door solid roof body style that year. No traditional hard top. It was available in 2 door convertible. I called mine a fastback too. So does everybody else, but it's not listed that way in the catalogs. 66=hardtop, 68=fastback, 67=2door.



For interesting reading:

HP, torque, and vehicle weight data from Automobile Catalog: https://www.automobile-catalog.com/m...dtop/1967.html
This is an apples to apples comparison of factory ratings of stock engines.
HP numbers are all SAE gross hp at the flywheel. Not comparing gross hp to net hp.

Last edited by 65FalconSix; 03-30-2019 at 06:29 PM.
65FalconSix is offline  
post #6 of 11 (permalink) Old 03-31-2019, 10:40 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: North Iowa
Posts: 937
Re: Hello all!!!

The 289/302 block can be built to out perform factory big block offerings and weigh two to three hundred pounds less. The easiest way is a stroker kit and good heads along with the proper camshaft. A 351W stoker even better and only slightly heavier than the 289/302.

Iowan
"Obsolete is neat"

Iowan is offline  
post #7 of 11 (permalink) Old 03-31-2019, 11:41 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Space Coast Florida
Posts: 133
Re: Hello all!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Iowan View Post
The 289/302 block can be built to out perform factory big block offerings and weigh two to three hundred pounds less. The easiest way is a stroker kit and good heads along with the proper camshaft. A 351W stoker even better and only slightly heavier than the 289/302.

Big cars and trucks are why they made big blocks.
Its only 190 lbs difference between a 289 and a 428 and 180 lbs difference between a 289 and a 460.
The 460 is 10 lbs lighter than the FE blocks it was designed to replace because Ford decided the Windsors couldn't make the torque required for the land yachts of the 70's that were in development.

You would have to do ridiculous things and spend a fortune on a Windsor to get it to make the torque that an FE makes in stock form. Yes you can make 500 ft.-lbs. of torque with a Windsor, for a short while, at much higher rpm, till it splits in half.


500 torque from a 460 is not an aggressive upgrade, and it can do it for hundreds of thousands of miles.
65FalconSix is offline  
post #8 of 11 (permalink) Old 03-31-2019, 01:22 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: North Iowa
Posts: 937
Re: Hello all!!!

A Windsor with aluminum heads and intake weighs about 450lbs the subtract the difference between a C6 and C4 then remember your putting all the mass on the front. If the big block was so great in all its mass it's funny no cars have had them installed from the factory in decades and new cars are heavier now than they were in the sixties. The Mustang is two tons correct?
I'd build a 427W before I would an 427FE.

Iowan
"Obsolete is neat"

Iowan is offline  
post #9 of 11 (permalink) Old 04-01-2019, 08:10 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Space Coast Florida
Posts: 133
Re: Hello all!!!

Iowan, you missed the big ďORĒ in the middle and got hung up on the FE.
I was just thinking of saving the little 289 and throwing something in that could handle the weight , but not break the bank. The aftermarket for FEís is not as good as it is for 460ís it is even better for Windsors, but torque is expensive on a Windsor, and comes at high rpmís.

If it was my car, Iíd put an 88 and up 385 series 460 in it, just to have a modern roller block.
You can find rotting RVís with big blocks and C6ís with low miles around here for under $1000 all the time on craigslist.

What year Mustang are you asking about? The weights varied a great deal from generation to generation and based on motor and trans options, but none has ever hit two tons.

64.5 Mustang base hardtop six 3spd 2500 -lightest
74 Mustang II base hardtop 2.3L 4sp 2700 -the one I thought would be lightest
78 Mustang II King Cobra automatic 3009 -heavier than I thought it would be
1973 Ford Mustang Mach I 351 4V automatic 3529 -lighter than I thought it would be
2019 Mustang Bullitt 3849 -heaviest - biggest surprise to me
Newer ones are heavier and the new Coyote 5.0 makes over 400 torque to handle the weight.

The OPís car - 67 Galaxie 2 door 289 C4 3708 - 282 torque
Same year FE -67 Galaxie 2 door 390 C6 3950 - 405 torque

Only 242 lbs total weight difference including bigger motor, bigger trans, bigger rear diff, heavier springs, bigger brakes, in exchange for 123 torque difference.
Thatís a huge difference in a car 1200 lbs heavier than a Mustang


engine weights:
289 Challenger 505 lbs.

351 Windsor 510 lbs. .
351 Cleveland 550 lbs.
351M/400M 575lbs.

390 FE 650 lbs.
460 385 series 640 lbs.

Hereís a good article where they install an Edelbrock power package on a fresh 351 Windsor and track the gains of each individual component on a dyno:
https://www.hotrod.com/articles/hrdp-0901-edelbrock-xt-cylinder-head-install/

$3800 and they still didnít hit 400 torque.

This is the route I would take instead:




I would buy this motorhome,
scrap the mostly aluminum body for $250-$300,
sell the good used RV components on CL for another $400-$500 that would mostly pay for these parts:
Buy
Mahle 460 engine gasket set - $120
Summitt Racing DUI distributor - $159
Edelbrock 2701 4bbl intake - $148
Quickfuel Brawler 700 cfm carb- $350
Stainless shorty headers $120
Fuel pump $12
Oil pump $25

This setup would probably twist up around 425 to 450 torque when installed and tuned and still be under $1500 and last much longer cause itís not working so hard.


65FalconSix is offline  
post #10 of 11 (permalink) Old 04-01-2019, 08:44 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: North Iowa
Posts: 937
Re: Hello all!!!

I'm not hung up on anything, it's a small black car and I'd leave it that way. A mild buildup will get it around nice and get good gas mileage. Not every thing has to be powered by pig iron and get less than 10 mpg. I have know idea why your getting so worked up it's not your car to put some old junk motor in.

Iowan
"Obsolete is neat"

Iowan is offline  
post #11 of 11 (permalink) Old 04-01-2019, 12:28 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 991
Re: Hello all!!!

Just wanted to say I think both of you made good cases either way for the owner to go as far as what he should do with his engine.

There's nothing wrong with staying with a small block and mildly working it over or really cracking open the wallet and making a 460 cid 351W small block. Or go to the other end of the spectrum with a big block of some sort. I can personally vouch FE's are rather expensive to make gobs of mild mannered power out of them.

The wifes '96 Impala has a small block stock 350 LT1 (gen II) in it and it's quite spry with the transmission and rear axle gear ratios and breaks 20 MPG. My '94 Grand Marquis is abundantly anemic with its V8 engine but I can crack 30 MPG depending how I drive on the highway, it's extremely comfortable and quiet.

I have an old Caprice Classic convertible with a mildly worked over factory 454 and I adore that car. I don't care that it gets 10 MPG. I have to finish our '66 LTD but have driven it with a very modified ~396 (30 over 390) and that will be a whole lot of fun as it appears we cracked the 500 hp threshold well under 6000 RPM and with 500+ ft/lbs of torque. But that engine was 10+ grand to do. You can do a nice aftermarket 460 cid 351W for around that and make even more crazy power.

Like I mentioned you guys covered all the pros and cons for different engines. Each has its benefits as long as the owner of the car enjoys his decision.

Cheers
extech likes this.

Last edited by DesertXL; 04-01-2019 at 08:42 PM.
DesertXL is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Ford Muscle Forums : Ford Muscle Cars Tech Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in











Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Hello Hello... New here... MnvlMat Galaxie Pages 13 03-13-2007 07:13 AM
Hello All blury Galaxie Pages 9 11-14-2003 12:10 AM
Hello all, It has been a while... but look at my project pics.. desertdroog The Garage 2 05-12-2003 08:22 PM

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome