Ford Muscle Forums : Ford Muscle Cars Tech Forum - Reply to Topic
Thread: Question on C6 upgrades Reply to Thread
Title:
Message:
Trackback:
Send Trackbacks to (Separate multiple URLs with spaces) :
Post Icons
You may choose an icon for your message from the following list:
 

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Ford Muscle Forums : Ford Muscle Cars Tech Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










  Additional Options
Miscellaneous Options

  Topic Review (Newest First)
02-27-2019 09:50 AM
Rusty_S85
Re: Question on C6 upgrades

Quote:
Originally Posted by GT350HR View Post
If you don't mind a firmer shift , you can screw in the screw on the vacuum modulator a few turns . that will raise the WOT shift points a bit.
Randy
I do not mind firmer shifts. I will be installing a towing/rv style shift kit. I just want to avoid a hard hammering bang on the gears. I have a truck at work a 79 C20 bonanza that was lifted and has a shift kit in it that thing is beating the U joints out of it just putting it into gear it hits so hard. I don't want that.

I was looking at adjusting a black stripe modulator from what I read higher vacuum engines will benefit from a black stripe modulator and considering my old stock motor was putting nearly 20 inches of vacuum out at idle and this motor going in is newer it should be around the same I think it would be best to go this route and make minor adjustments where needed.
02-27-2019 09:03 AM
GT350HR
Re: Question on C6 upgrades


If you don't mind a firmer shift , you can screw in the screw on the vacuum modulator a few turns . that will raise the WOT shift points a bit.
Randy
02-26-2019 11:24 AM
Rusty_S85
Re: Question on C6 upgrades

Quote:
Originally Posted by GT350HR View Post
I too bought the $150 pan from Summit ( no logo) It is a high quality part and is complete ( as mentioned) with all hardware and gasket. It fit perfectly and uses a ( supplied) factory Ford filter.
I built my C6 with a wide ratio kit as I had some pieces I picked up at a swap meet and managed to source all of the missing parts on the internet. Total cost for the full needle bearing conversion including a 5 clutch high drum , was less than $200. I used a Kevlar band for another $22 and an R servo ( repro) for another $120. The shift kit was $25 ( Superior like the R servo) I have under $600 in it , plus my labor. I also scored a governor from a 429 Cobra jet for higher rpm shift points. Using the standard governor makes the shifts too early with the wide ratio kit , something the instructions fail to mention. I didn't want to screw in the modulator too much and get really harsh part throttle shifts. I am really pleased with the results. I know I was lucky in my "finds" but it can be done with careful internet shopping too.
Randy
Interesting I never heard of the governor aspect. I always thought it was weird that my truck was shifting out at 4,500 rpm at wide open throttle. I did a quick light read and see lighter piston is supposed to be a higher rpm shift point but its trial and error.

For me I could go for a little higher shift point at wot considering the peak hp as rated by ford for the '96 explorer long block I will be transplant in is at 4,600 rpm. Would like to bump it up some to match peak hp so I can make use of peak power.

I also wondered for a while if the lower rpm shift point is cause I am running taller than stock tires with the stock gearing and its throwing the transmission rpm shift point off.

But now I am concerned as well because I believe my converter is slipping more than it should and now it makes me wonder if I wont be shifting at 4,500 at wide open throttle anymore.

Lots of things I have to read up on and make a decision on.
02-26-2019 11:19 AM
Rusty_S85
Re: Question on C6 upgrades

Quote:
Originally Posted by gregaust View Post
As already mentioned re the chrome pan. Not a fan of those . They are difficult to seal up.
The aluminium pans are a much better choice . An added bonus for a C6 is having such a large opening in the bottom, the Ali pan offers added strength to the case , particularly in the area of the band adjuster .

Yes you can basically drill and tap anywhere for the temp sender

Yes that filter is the 727 Torqueflite they come from originally . A TCI pan I used comes with the mesh filter and similar extension as the B&M
I found a racing company that sells a 727 Torqueflite mesh filter looks like I will be going with that.

I prefer to run an aluminum one just for the simple fact that the gasket face on the pan is a lot beefier and aluminum conducts heat away better than steel. If I am sure the casting I am looking at is thick enough I will just find the best spot to locate the sensor and just drill and tap it myself. I got the pipe taps to do it. I also prefer to have it on the driver side of the pan on my truck as I don't want to have to run the sensor wire from the passenger side over the transmission to the driver side.
02-26-2019 10:32 AM
GT350HR
Re: Question on C6 upgrades

I too bought the $150 pan from Summit ( no logo) It is a high quality part and is complete ( as mentioned) with all hardware and gasket. It fit perfectly and uses a ( supplied) factory Ford filter.
I built my C6 with a wide ratio kit as I had some pieces I picked up at a swap meet and managed to source all of the missing parts on the internet. Total cost for the full needle bearing conversion including a 5 clutch high drum , was less than $200. I used a Kevlar band for another $22 and an R servo ( repro) for another $120. The shift kit was $25 ( Superior like the R servo) I have under $600 in it , plus my labor. I also scored a governor from a 429 Cobra jet for higher rpm shift points. Using the standard governor makes the shifts too early with the wide ratio kit , something the instructions fail to mention. I didn't want to screw in the modulator too much and get really harsh part throttle shifts. I am really pleased with the results. I know I was lucky in my "finds" but it can be done with careful internet shopping too.
Randy
02-26-2019 12:54 AM
gregaust
Re: Question on C6 upgrades

As already mentioned re the chrome pan. Not a fan of those . They are difficult to seal up.
The aluminium pans are a much better choice . An added bonus for a C6 is having such a large opening in the bottom, the Ali pan offers added strength to the case , particularly in the area of the band adjuster .

Yes you can basically drill and tap anywhere for the temp sender

Yes that filter is the 727 Torqueflite they come from originally . A TCI pan I used comes with the mesh filter and similar extension as the B&M
02-25-2019 06:22 PM
Rusty_S85
Re: Question on C6 upgrades

Quote:
Originally Posted by galaxiex View Post
Great choice!

Just a note on chrome pans,
or any other chrome part that uses a gasket, such as valve covers or thermostat housings.

I have not seen any that don't leak.
The chrome plating is often (usually) on the gasket sealing flange, and the chrome being so slick, it is very difficult to seal.

I always rough up the sealing surface so the gasket doesn't squirm out of position,
or if possible, use a bead of the right stuff silicone. Or both.
Either way, they can be troublesome to seal at times.

Personally I despise chrome oil pans and valve covers for that reason.

For mounting a temp sensor in thin steel or even thin(ish) aluminum, you can get a bolt-in bung for that.

They call it a drain plug kit, but it can be used to install a temp sensor, the threads are the same. 1/8" pipe.

https://www.summitracing.com/int/par...0250/overview/

Edit: to cut a clean hole in thin steel, use one of those step bits. (Unibit)

A regular twist drill just mangles things in thin material.
So you've experienced that too. I would take a flat bastard file to the chrome pan gasket surface to strip the chrome off while keeping flush. I also am looking at a Moroso reuseable C6 gasket that is a rubber gasket with a steel core.

Same style gaskets I will be using on my valve covers and oil pan on my 302 but made by felpro.

I might go that route cause there are cheaper pans out there and I don't need a super expensive pan just wanted something to attach the temp sender to as well as gaining 2 extra quarts to help the factory radiator cooler and the auxiliary cooler to work easier at keeping trans temps cool.
02-25-2019 11:48 AM
galaxiex
Re: Question on C6 upgrades

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rusty_S85 View Post
Thanks for the reply. Thankfully I haven't ordered anything yet for my transmission. I am looking at the B&M one as it has the boss for the temp sender for the transmission fluid. PML also has pans with the boss for the sender as well. Personally I would love to run the deep chrome pan that says C6 on the bottom or if I could find one the aluminum Ford Racing deep pan but the Ford racing pan is out of production and wont pay $200 for a banged up used one and the chrome one it would be bad to drill it for a sender as it will be too thin not to mention chipping the chrome.

If the summit pan is thick enough to tap with a pipe tap then I will gladly go with that pan since its cheaper.
Great choice!

Just a note on chrome pans,
or any other chrome part that uses a gasket, such as valve covers or thermostat housings.

I have not seen any that don't leak.
The chrome plating is often (usually) on the gasket sealing flange, and the chrome being so slick, it is very difficult to seal.

I always rough up the sealing surface so the gasket doesn't squirm out of position,
or if possible, use a bead of the right stuff silicone. Or both.
Either way, they can be troublesome to seal at times.

Personally I despise chrome oil pans and valve covers for that reason.

For mounting a temp sensor in thin steel or even thin(ish) aluminum, you can get a bolt-in bung for that.

They call it a drain plug kit, but it can be used to install a temp sensor, the threads are the same. 1/8" pipe.

https://www.summitracing.com/int/par...0250/overview/

Edit: to cut a clean hole in thin steel, use one of those step bits. (Unibit)

A regular twist drill just mangles things in thin material.
02-25-2019 10:26 AM
Rusty_S85
Re: Question on C6 upgrades

Quote:
Originally Posted by galaxiex View Post
Well you already have the B&M pan....but...

I bought an aluminum pan from Summit that is their house brand, and could not be happier with it.
Comes with bolts, drain plug, gaskets, and screen mesh filter and extension tube.

Excellent appearing casting quality!

Con: it doesn't have a temp bung, but really,
the casting is thick enough to simply drill and tap your choice of location anywhere in the side of it.
I much prefer to do this, as I can pick the spot that works best for me, to avoid the cross member, exhaust, linkage, etc.

Best part is the price. 149.99

They have 2 pans, one with the Summit logo and one without.
I got the plain without logo.

Very nice quality pan!

https://www.summitracing.com/int/par...003r/overview/
Thanks for the reply. Thankfully I haven't ordered anything yet for my transmission. I am looking at the B&M one as it has the boss for the temp sender for the transmission fluid. PML also has pans with the boss for the sender as well. Personally I would love to run the deep chrome pan that says C6 on the bottom or if I could find one the aluminum Ford Racing deep pan but the Ford racing pan is out of production and wont pay $200 for a banged up used one and the chrome one it would be bad to drill it for a sender as it will be too thin not to mention chipping the chrome.

If the summit pan is thick enough to tap with a pipe tap then I will gladly go with that pan since its cheaper.
02-25-2019 10:00 AM
galaxiex
Re: Question on C6 upgrades

Well you already have the B&M pan....but...

I bought an aluminum pan from Summit that is their house brand, and could not be happier with it.
Comes with bolts, drain plug, gaskets, and screen mesh filter and extension tube.

Excellent appearing casting quality!

Con: it doesn't have a temp bung, but really,
the casting is thick enough to simply drill and tap your choice of location anywhere in the side of it.
I much prefer to do this, as I can pick the spot that works best for me, to avoid the cross member, exhaust, linkage, etc.

Best part is the price. 149.99

They have 2 pans, one with the Summit logo and one without.
I got the plain without logo.

Very nice quality pan!

https://www.summitracing.com/int/par...003r/overview/
02-24-2019 12:12 PM
Rusty_S85
Re: Question on C6 upgrades

Quote:
Originally Posted by gregaust View Post
Those B&M are ok , I have used them but if using the Dacron type they need changing regularly. You can get a gauze type also , they are a torqueflite part.
Or you could use a C6 4x4 filter with he rubber grommet and make up an extension tube. I'll see if i can add a pic of one I did.

That large cooler is certainly not excessive IMO.

The R servo certainly isn't necessary , there are good factory servo's also that will do you well. If you are building the trans look at the Alto 2.5" wide band is a nice addition.
Servo lever also can be changed but that will depend on the servo you have .

Theshift kit is a definite. A stock C6 shifts way too soft. The Transgo SK-6 kit does well . It gives a nice crisper shift without being harsh. They give a choice of 3 springs for the accumulator , i like the setup with a single spring for the shortest shift .

Type F fluid = YES

I've not used the different ratio kits . Some guys say they are good .. Not too sure myself. The factory gearsets will give you good service if in good condition

What I would look at for towing is to make sure you get 5 clutches in each pack. A stock top gear only has 3. There are companies that sell a drum ready to go like Broader performance or you can machine yours
Thanks for the reply. The filter is a Torqueflite style? I didn't bother looking that up I was doing browser searches for C6 Extension Mesh Filters with no luck. I will give that a look. I have no problem running an extension to get the filter as close to the bottom of the pan as possible. I just hate the fuzzy transmission filters from past experience. Cant do service at recommended intervals have to do them at half intervals as they clog up easily.

On the B&M Pan, I don't really like the pan to be honest but I am quite limited on aluminum pans with a temp sensor fitting. I found one aluminum pan that was made by PML for $200 but you have to pay extra for the bung drilled out. I don't know if I like the thought of paying $200 then drilling the bung out myself which I can do. The only draw back is I have to crawl under my truck to make sure the cross member will clear the pan I think it will as the B&M has people grinding fins down to get the B&M one to fit.

The cooler, I just am not sure on it. Ive never added a cooler but considering the rebuild and changes done to this transmission with a Hughe`s converter I figured let me add an auxiliary one after the factory radiator cooler. I can figure a way to mount the larger one, might have to move it further away from the radiator as my truck has dealer installed AC and the condenser is a smallish universal style one that covers the passengerside half of the radiator. I will be mounting the trans cooler on the driverside as close to the radiator as possible.

The R-Servo is what I was wondering about as well. Lots of people are like oh you need to upgrade to that for towing. But the reading ive done is that the R-Servo was found on C6`s behind big blocks. My truck isn't a big block, its a small 302 which is in the process of being pulled to have a newer '96 Explorer 302 transplanted into for the higher compression, better heads, and the late model truck roller cam. Even then I was questioning if a R-Servo was really needed on a engine factory rated at 210hp and 280trq.

I prefer running what the transmission calls for but my '78 Mercury is a FMX transmission and calls for Type F so that would save me a lot of room only having to stock Type F fluid.

My main concern with doing a planetary gear set change is the truck currently has 31x10.50-15 BFG KO2`s AT`s all around. Stock tires from the factory were P215R75-15 which is roughly 28" tall. The BFG`s stated by BFG`s website is 30.7" tall. This here changed my stock 2.75:1 ring and pinion gear to around a 2.45:1 effective ratio. To correct this I am purchasing a Currie 9" third member with TruTrak for $1,500 that is a 3.25:1 ratio. This with the 30.7" tall BFG`s would put my ratio at 2.90:1. To help with towing and pulling if I swap the stock planetary gear set from the stock 2.46:1 first and 1.46:1 second to the wide ratio of 2.72:1 first and 1.54:1 second would improve my over all ratio from 7.13:1 effective ratio in 1st gear to 7.88:1 effective ratio in 1st gear. I know its not a whole lot but I wonder if the $400 - $600 price tag I see on the wide ratio set is worth it for the benefit it would give me in towing and acceleration.

I do mostly highway driving of 60 - 75 mph even though everyone else is going 85 - 90 mph. This old truck cant keep up due to the aerodynamics that is horrible on it as well as it being a C6 transmission with no over drive. This was one way I figured I could get as much improvement acceleration/towing out of my setup while still being able to go highway speeds of 75 mph with engine speed under 3,000 RPM. Transmission has to be done anyways as I figured my converter has about 17.8% slip in it compared to a new converter being around 3% to 5% slip. Think the setup was over stressed towing a tandem axle dumpster trailer for years as a work truck.

So its not like I am pulling the trans just to do these upgrades, ill be pulling the trans to replace the worn out converter and have the transmission gone through. While I was at it would be when I do the upgrades. I saw the wide ratio set with a 10% increase to first gear and 5% increase to second gear and thought hell that should help my old truck out turning the big tires along with the gear ratio change from 2.75:1 to 3.25:1.

On the clutch drum I will make a note of that. The old timer that will be doing my transmission rebuild hes built some performance transmissions before, I will be letting him do the build but I will be buying the parts to make life easier on the guy seeing as hes 87 right now. I see Broader Performance is in Texas and I checked out the C6`s they have ready to go, the 750 HP wide ratio one looks like a good one for me and pricing isn't too bad but he doesn't have a listing for a SBF application, only the BBF`s. I need to check with the local guy but he quoted me $750 to pull my Ford-O-Matic and do a straight rebuild excluding cost of hard parts that might need to be replaced. I figured a bench job C6 shouldn't be over $1,000 for a rebuild and the upgraded parts should put me around $1,500 in the end.
02-24-2019 12:02 AM
gregaust
Re: Question on C6 upgrades

Those B&M are ok , I have used them but if using the Dacron type they need changing regularly. You can get a gauze type also , they are a torqueflite part.
Or you could use a C6 4x4 filter with he rubber grommet and make up an extension tube. I'll see if i can add a pic of one I did.

That large cooler is certainly not excessive IMO.

The R servo certainly isn't necessary , there are good factory servo's also that will do you well. If you are building the trans look at the Alto 2.5" wide band is a nice addition.
Servo lever also can be changed but that will depend on the servo you have .

Theshift kit is a definite. A stock C6 shifts way too soft. The Transgo SK-6 kit does well . It gives a nice crisper shift without being harsh. They give a choice of 3 springs for the accumulator , i like the setup with a single spring for the shortest shift .

Type F fluid = YES

I've not used the different ratio kits . Some guys say they are good .. Not too sure myself. The factory gearsets will give you good service if in good condition

What I would look at for towing is to make sure you get 5 clutches in each pack. A stock top gear only has 3. There are companies that sell a drum ready to go like Broader performance or you can machine yours
02-23-2019 11:07 PM
Rusty_S85
Question on C6 upgrades

Im looking at upgrades for my C6 transmission in my F150.

One of the upgrades is the use of a B&M deep transmission pan in aluminum to help with cooling. This pan how ever comes with a extension and a transmission filter which is an actual filter and not a mesh screen filter.

My question on this upgrade is does one truly need to run the extension? I tried to see if I could find a mesh filter for the extension but I couldn't find one and I don't like those conventional filters had one nearly burn up my FMX when it got older and restricted fluid flow when cold.

My next upgrade that I have been thinking about is the R code servo upgrade. With this upgrade what does it really help? Ive seen it said it helps with second gear but ive also seen it stated it helps with applying the band more eliminating slippage. Might not be something I need for the engine that is in front of this transmission.

The next upgrade I am looking at as going with a Series 9000 derale 17 row plate and fin cooler. I personally think its way too much as its listed as 22,500 GVW rated and from the reading I have done I got the number of 22,000 GVW to 28,000 GVW for a truck. Problem is though my truck`s GVW on the door tag of my truck is 5,250 GVW and with the engine/trans/axle ratio 5,000 towing is about what I can safely do. That will put me at 10,250 GVW total, if I push it to 10,000 lbs that still puts me at 15,250 GVW. Derale has a smaller dimension wise 9 row 9000 series plate and fin cooler rated at 17,500 GVW. Question on this is do I spend the extra money and try to fit the larger 17 row plate and fin cooler or do I go with the smaller 9 row plate and fin cooler that still will exceed my combined GVW of my truck and towing? For me I personally am looking at the smaller one just as it takes up less room and would be easier to mount in good air flow vs a larger one.

The last upgrade I am looking at doing is RV/Tow shift kit and a wide ratio planetary gear set. The questions on these is the RV/Tow shift kit does it make the shifts harder or just more positive? I don't think I want a harsh race like shift that really bangs the truck when it shifts. Especially considering I will be running Type F fluid in my C6 after rebuild. The wide ratio planetary gear set, I cant find much on them, does anyone have recommendations on what kit to get that is complete? Especially one that is a good product that can handle years of abuse of towing.

Might have more questions but these are the most pressing ones for me.

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome