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  Topic Review (Newest First)
06-10-2019 03:09 PM
blkfrd
Re: 289ci Piston Choice

If you're concerned about 289 piston weight, use a longer rod. You could use a stroker rod such as a 5.4" or 5.315" and a piston with shorter compression height and lighter weight. You may have to use a Chevy piston and bore the rod small end to piston pin. Used to happen all the time when people mixed and matched parts to make a one-off engine before more parts became available, but it's more fun to do something a bit different.



The piston speed in a 289 is low though because of the short stroke so stock weight pistons are not usually an issue up to 7000 with ARP bolt equipped rods. 11:1 compression with the piston .030 in the hole means a loose quench and greater potential for detonation. Did you calculate compression ratio assuming the .030 "in-the-hole"?
05-27-2019 08:08 PM
29EssexRat
Re: 289ci Piston Choice

Well, took to the 351w apart today. It's decent, better than the 289 I was going to rebuild by a long shot lol.
05-24-2019 10:16 AM
GT350HR
Re: 289ci Piston Choice

Thanks Mike ,
The manifold swap is on the "to do" list. The dual fours look cool and do make power , but there is no doubt the Vic Jr ( especially my "worked" version) will make more power. I have so many runs as it is that any change will show up no matter what time of year or track conditions. Once in the tens , I will finish the 374 and set the 9 second goal in place. As in yours a 200 hp increase "should do it'', and the 374 has that capability. Thanks .
Randy
05-23-2019 04:43 PM
n2omike
Re: 289ci Piston Choice

Quote:
Originally Posted by GT350HR View Post
All good thanks Mike .
I have raced my '66 Shelby continuously for the last 45 years. The current 331 has run 7.04 and 11.13 respectively. This is with a C4. I think my "old school" Ford dual four intake is holding me back fro a 6.9-10.9 et slip. I have a Vic Jr and if I had the ambition , (I'm 66) I would change it. My goal is to get a 9 second time slip on motor only and to do that I am building a 374ci all aluminum Boss 302 stroker. After seeing you pick up over a second with spray , I may rethink finishing the big engine. There are some videos of my car on you tube . It's a white '66 GT350H.
Randy
That intake is DEFINITELY holding it back! A Victor Jr would likely put you right where you need to be! Sure would be nice to dip into the 6's and 10's with the current engine! Once you do that, then it could be retired, and you could go to work on the Big Engine!

Do NOT give up on that cool Boss 374! Try not to get too worried about numbers. It will be what it will be! Just go out there and optimize the car once you get the engine installed, and enjoy it! I have a feeling it will run GOOD!

Most cars don't pick up as much as mine on the bottle... especially considering it's 'only' a 200 hp plate. If you do go that route, you'll want to get with someone who really knows what they are doing... If you are using a factory block, it's even more important, as those can be the weak spot. A person has to take ALL precautions to avoid detonation... as THAT is what will kill a block that is at or near its limits.

On mine...
The compression ratio is well into the 'safe' zone.
Cold Race Plugs.
Not greedy with the timing.
I run it lean, but not excessively lean. (lean makes power!)
Better fuel than you think you'll need.
ONLY run the engine with a COOL engine temp! Warm engines are more likely to detonate.
Mine is a stock stroke, which puts less leverage on the block, and allows more power to be run through it.

I have an electric fan and water pump. Between runs, I hook it to the battery charger and cool the engine down to where it feels cool to the touch... then run it as little as possible up to the lanes for the next pass. Doesn't take long at all with BOTH the fan AND water pump.

For now, PUT A VICTOR JR ON IT!!! It will be fun to see what kind of a difference it might make!

Good Luck!
05-23-2019 11:39 AM
GT350HR
Re: 289ci Piston Choice

All good thanks Mike .
I have raced my '66 Shelby continuously for the last 45 years. The current 331 has run 7.04 and 11.13 respectively. This is with a C4. I think my "old school" Ford dual four intake is holding me back fro a 6.9-10.9 et slip. I have a Vic Jr and if I had the ambition , (I'm 66) I would change it. My goal is to get a 9 second time slip on motor only and to do that I am building a 374ci all aluminum Boss 302 stroker. After seeing you pick up over a second with spray , I may rethink finishing the big engine. There are some videos of my car on you tube . It's a white '66 GT350H.
Randy
05-23-2019 06:03 AM
n2omike
Re: 289ci Piston Choice

Quote:
Originally Posted by GT350HR View Post
n2omike
Post #9 near the end mentioned the idea of a 392 stroker and is the reason I went "off topic".

Further off topic , what does you 306 run on "motor only" . I am only curious as to how much you pick up with the spray as I am contemplating it. Randy
Well, the engine is kind of unique compared to what most people do. All the parts were sourced around 1995, just before all the cheap Chinese Stroker stuff started coming out, so it's still 306ci. It uses an old 1970 0.030"/0.040" Boss 302 steel crank and rods. It's built to be a STREET car, so it has a pump gas compression ratio and a solid flat tappet cam. (SFT were cheap, reliable and would rpm easily)

The cam/compression/gearing, etc are geared toward nitrous... so it's designed to be optimized for the bottle, which is an old Top Gun plate from the early 90's jetted for 200hp. A guy from Top Gun is who broke away to form Nitrous Express. I had the same kit on an old 289 headed engine jetted for 150 hp. After the engine was getting well worn, the nitrous was stepped up to 200 hp to compensate for wear, and has been there ever since. lol The current engine has been on 200 hp worth of the drugs from the beginning... which is around a dozen or so years, now. It was taken out for a freshen-up a few years ago, and showed no real signs of strain. Both engines have digested dozens of nitrous bottles without issue. The key to not killing them, is to not get greedy, and be conservative. A 'soft' tune can go a long way in regards to service life.

As for how they run off the bottle... I don't get to go to the dragstrip that often, so when I do I like to make the best of it! That means, I want to go as fast as possible, so pretty much every run is ON the bottle. With the drugs, the driver's seat is a BUSY environment! The 1/8 mile goes by in 6.29 seconds, and you're already in 4th gear before reaching the finish line. There's no time to think... It just has to be driven by instinct. OFF the bottle, it feels like everything is moving in slow motion, and I sometimes tend to shift too early. It's just not nearly as much fun, so almost every pass is a bottled one. lol

Most tracks around here are 1/8 mile. Going to a 1/4 mile track is a rare treat. The old engine was a 306 with 289 heads I ported. The best 1/8 mile times it produced were 6.73 @ 103 on the bottle, and 7.48 @ 93 naturally aspirated. For the naturally aspirated runs, a buddy with a 400 Camaro and I were really close performance wise off the bottle. (his car didn't have nitrous) so we kept making runs, and kept upping each other's best times! It kept going back and forth until I was launching my car wide open on the rev limiter at 7200 rpm! Shift point was only 6800. lol Since it was set up for the bottle, it would launch as hard as you wanted to off the bottle. Was a fun night. lol

I've only made ONE run with the current engine naturally aspirated. lol It was a warm day on a 1/4 mile track and ran 7.44 in the 1/8 and 11.66 in the 1/4. I'm sure it would do better, but with only getting to the track a couple times per year, I've always got the bottle turned on... as it's just a lot more fun and exciting. lol

The bottle is activated via a throttle switch. When the throttle is wide open, the nitrous is ON. The car is launched at 3/4 throttle. You just 'barely' lead with the clutch before going WOT, as you don't want the nitrous to come on before the clutch is released... or it tends to get violent. lol But, as soon as the clutch it starting to grab, the nitrous is on. It's all done by feel and just timing your feet. The bottle adds a MASSIVE amount of torque for launch, and improves that little 306's 60ft tremendously. The nitrous can also be switched to 'button' mode, so it's activated via a button on the shifter. This was used mostly in the street racing days, and for testing/playing around on the street. lol

I'm 51 years old, and have had the car since age 15, when it was bought as a beater first car for $1,300. We've been through a lot! lol

Well, that was a lot of rambling... Sorry for making you read all that, just to answer a simple question.
05-22-2019 07:13 PM
29EssexRat
Re: 289ci Piston Choice

What's the average cost for machine work around you? Started pricing out this 393, it's up there. There's only one machine shop around me, and their quotes were $225 to square the deck, $350 to bore w/ a deckplate, or $280 w/o, thinking for piece of mind I best use the deck plate? cleaning is $135, then balancing is around $300, depending on if metal is added. Then I was also thinking of going with a windage tray, and main studs, as it's a front sump car, which will most likely require a line hone, which I think is $180, I forgot to ask of course. That's like $1200 in machine work... then another $2800 on top of that intake to oil pan, minus heads, and w/ headers. Is $1200 in machine work justifiable on a "budget" 393?

Or I could go full "budget build" Just clean the deck surface up, use a ridge reamer on the cylinder walls, and hope that the main bores don't distort w/ studs, and if they do, just run the original main bolts, and no windage tray?
05-22-2019 12:33 PM
GT350HR
Re: 289ci Piston Choice

n2omike
Post #9 near the end mentioned the idea of a 392 stroker and is the reason I went "off topic".

Further off topic , what does you 306 run on "motor only" . I am only curious as to how much you pick up with the spray as I am contemplating it. Randy
05-21-2019 07:44 PM
29EssexRat
Re: 289ci Piston Choice

Quote:
Originally Posted by n2omike View Post
You have a 289, and were asking about that... and now people are giving you advice on stroking a 351W. Rotating assemblies for the two engines are not compatible.

If you want to do a 351W swap into your car... and have a 351W engine to work with, it's the best thing you can do. The 351W bolts right to the 289 engine mounts, and even has the same balance. You just cannot install a 351W stroker kit into a 289 engine.

If you go with the 351W platform, the 393 stroker kit uses a 3.85" stroke crank, 351W rods and 302 pistons. If you have an engine to work with, it's the original stroker kit that came out before the rotating assemblies started to get really cheap. Nowadays, most people step up to a 408, as they are generally using all aftermarket parts, anyway. The 408 kits are also usually higher quality, balance easier, and are a 4" stroke.
Yeah, we got off track from the original question, I have a 289 block, and a 351w block, and a bunch of other blocks... Thinking of 393 over 408 due to it being half the cost. Eventually step up to a 408, but for what I want to do with the 408 (427ci) would require an aftermarket block, and e85/mixed fuel, and is not in the budget for quite some time, and want to be able to run pump gas until I can get some of the other projects running and driving, so I can actually have fun with the car. Better off going budget stroker for the time being. But if a good 302 block falls into my lap, I will just go with the 302, since it's cheap.
05-21-2019 05:28 PM
n2omike
Re: 289ci Piston Choice

Quote:
Originally Posted by 29EssexRat View Post
I had no idea car and truck rods were different, just went an checked and I do have the "football rods". Think you just changed my mind on what to do! Sadly, my motor is from a 1980s F150, so non roller, but! it was free, and can't justify the cost of linked roller lifters at this time. Plus I originally got this motor for the car, just at the time couldn't spend $600 on headers for it. Using Scat's 9-351-385-5955-2311W crank, and Summit's SUM-17370FC-30 Forged Pistons, should be around 10.5:1, and that's only $640 in the bottom end. More than half the cost of the 408w! Thank you very much for that insight, was $800 advice!
You have a 289, and were asking about that... and now people are giving you advice on stroking a 351W. Rotating assemblies for the two engines are not compatible.

If you want to do a 351W swap into your car... and have a 351W engine to work with, it's the best thing you can do. The 351W bolts right to the 289 engine mounts, and even has the same balance. You just cannot install a 351W stroker kit into a 289 engine.

If you go with the 351W platform, the 393 stroker kit uses a 3.85" stroke crank, 351W rods and 302 pistons. If you have an engine to work with, it's the original stroker kit that came out before the rotating assemblies started to get really cheap. Nowadays, most people step up to a 408, as they are generally using all aftermarket parts, anyway. The 408 kits are also usually higher quality, balance easier, and are a 4" stroke.
05-21-2019 12:46 PM
29EssexRat
Re: 289ci Piston Choice

I had no idea car and truck rods were different, just went an checked and I do have the "football rods". Think you just changed my mind on what to do! Sadly, my motor is from a 1980s F150, so non roller, but! it was free, and can't justify the cost of linked roller lifters at this time. Plus I originally got this motor for the car, just at the time couldn't spend $600 on headers for it. Using Scat's 9-351-385-5955-2311W crank, and Summit's SUM-17370FC-30 Forged Pistons, should be around 10.5:1, and that's only $640 in the bottom end. More than half the cost of the 408w! Thank you very much for that insight, was $800 advice!
05-21-2019 09:49 AM
GT350HR
Re: 289ci Piston Choice

Don't count out the 392 stock rod combo. The 351W truck rods with the football headed bolts are plenty strong. I have built several without any issue. Use the series 9000 cast steel crank and limit the revs to 7,000 and you sould have a 500 hp terror for moderate cost. Look for a 94-95 block and you can use factory hydraulic rollers saving a ton more money. With 3" diameter mains the crank is PLENTY strong.
Randy
05-20-2019 11:44 PM
29EssexRat
Re: 289ci Piston Choice

Thank you for the help, it is much appreciated. But my block has a lot of rust pitting, and already .030 over, so I am thinking of just going with the 408w I originally wanted. Taking up mike's advice of just waiting, and working a lot of over time now to save up money.

Thinking of going with a Scat crank 4-351W-4000-6200, eagle rods CRS5090F3D, and DSS 8723-4030 Pistons. That all costs $1500, then will have to get the 351w block that I already have bored, and deck squared. And of course balance the rotating assembly. Estimating it at about $2200 for the short block, hopefully less if I don't have to add metal to the crank. Then clevite tri metal, or king bearings, depending on cost/other's opinions. Setup should be right around 10.5 compression. Might pick up a different cam, and use this one in my other stock 351w, not the best cam for the motor, but better than the stock cam.

Also contemplated doing a budget 393, but stock rods seems like a ticking time bomb, and I want this motor to last. Save that fun project for something else.

Unless I wind up with a 302 block in the mean time, then I'll just have more money for more things.
05-20-2019 09:02 AM
GT350HR
Re: 289ci Piston Choice

With your combination of 4.030 - 2.87 stroke -.030 below the deck , and 60 cc head , you would need a +10 cc domed piston to get 10-1 Compression ration that would be good for an aluminum head. I found one in the Racetec/Autotec piston catalog , 1000416 that would work for you. The +11.2 dome would give 10.3 that would still be fine on 91 octane.
Randy
05-17-2019 12:03 PM
29EssexRat
Re: 289ci Piston Choice

I suppose, you are right, I better do it the right way. Cheaper in the long run. I'll look for a piston that better suits my needs.
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