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  Topic Review (Newest First)
09-09-2013 08:30 AM
PSIG
Re: Dyno run question

Quote:
Originally Posted by donwhis View Post
Thanks for your comments, I wish you were closer.
Dang. That offer is very gracious. I wouldn't pass that up. Dyno time with someone that knows what they're doing? I'd tow my car to the next state for that. Like someone offering to play the piano at your party, it's even better when they know how to play the piano.

David
09-08-2013 12:20 PM
n2omike
Re: Dyno run question

Quote:
Originally Posted by donwhis View Post
Thanks for your comments, I wish you were closer.

I am going to wait to change the plug back to 6000. Over the weekend I discovered the timing had slipped, hope it wasn't a timing chain issue, and it only had 10 degrees advance at 800 RPM idle without vacuum. I had been running it at 13/14 degrees.

Ever since I ran it up to 6500 RPM I had low end torque loss even though I could still get it to 125 MPH. I am thinking timing.
The higher rpm probably vibrated the distributor, which may not have been tight. If the timing chain jumped, both the cam and ignition timing would have changed... and changed a whole lot more than it did.

Good Luck!
09-08-2013 08:09 AM
donwhis
Re: Dyno run question

Thanks for your comments, I wish you were closer.

I am going to wait to change the plug back to 6000. Over the weekend I discovered the timing had slipped, hope it wasn't a timing chain issue, and it only had 10 degrees advance at 800 RPM idle without vacuum. I had been running it at 13/14 degrees.

Ever since I ran it up to 6500 RPM I had low end torque loss even though I could still get it to 125 MPH. I am thinking timing.
09-08-2013 07:47 AM
L n L
Re: Dyno run question

Quote:
Originally Posted by donwhis View Post
New report, I changed the MSD plug in (pill) from 6000 to 7000 and took it for a drive. I chickened out at 6500 RPM, with no break up. I guess this shows that the MSD was cutting it off at the 5500 RPM as shown on the Dyno chart, it also shows the valve springs are good up to at least 6500 RPM. I feel better now, but sure would like to get back on the dyno to see how the additional RPM and better flowing exhaust have affected the HP and TQ.

Don
Several thoughts/comments for you:

- Put the 6000 chip back in. Your HP is peaking at 5000, so there is no need at all to ever go past 5500

- You are actually making more power than I would have guessed, with the parts that you have. That is more than enough to run 12's in the quarter mile.

- I recently tested a mild street motor with 2" pipes, then retested with 2.5". It picked up over 20hp at the rear wheels.

- You are too rich (see the A/F on the dyno charts) Before you change the jets, though, try adding some timing on your next dyno session.

- I would plan on making 2 dyno pulls without any changes, to make sure the motor is performing consistently. Then plan on probably 5 more pulls to zero in on the best timing setting. Then, 2 to 4 more pulls to test carb jetting.

- TAKE NOTES while you are tuning!!! It is easy to get excited and forget exactly what change you did on each pull.

I'm a bit southeast of Houston, and I have a chassis dyno (DynoJet), if you ever happen to be out this way :-)
09-01-2013 10:03 AM
donwhis
Re: Dyno run question

New report, I changed the MSD plug in (pill) from 6000 to 7000 and took it for a drive. I chickened out at 6500 RPM, with no break up. I guess this shows that the MSD was cutting it off at the 5500 RPM as shown on the Dyno chart, it also shows the valve springs are good up to at least 6500 RPM. I feel better now, but sure would like to get back on the dyno to see how the additional RPM and better flowing exhaust have affected the HP and TQ.

Don
08-11-2013 11:20 AM
PSIG
Re: Dyno run question

LOL... and that's not all of them. But - you don't have to drill to the bottom of each one at first. Give each a quick check for anything obvious. For example, do a highway run and check where it breaks-up. Is it higher RPM than before and the pill is working? Test your coil to verify spec's. Pull a valve cover and look closely for cracked or broken springs. Perhaps pull one set and do a quick check for installed height and pressure against factory recommendations for that cam. All stuff you can do in an afternoon, and if you find more clues or something odd, then you can chase that instead of everything.

David
08-11-2013 09:48 AM
donwhis
Re: Dyno run question

Damn David, can't you think of more items. This list will keep me busy for a couple of months.

Seriously, thanks for the list. I want to rule out ignition system, except plug gap, since it is all new MSD. I think I have the timing at 13 degrees advanced, tried to run it at 16 but it pinged to much.

It well could be the springs, the engine used to be bracket raced before I got it and I don't know how much abuse it has had.

I will keep plugging away at these items.

don
08-10-2013 09:27 AM
PSIG
Re: Dyno run question

Assuming all the parts are reasonably matched - high-RPM misfire is most commonly weak, wrong, broken, or improperly installed valve springs, weak coil, plug gap too small or too large, bad ignition trigger, bad AFRs, mis-adjusted lifters (hydro too much preload combined with marginal springs), or poor fuel distribution. In a used setup, it's anything related to those that's marginal (cap, rotor, degraded or cross-firing wires, carb bowl dirt, etc.).

I am leaning towards a valve spring or ignition issue, as your graph shows AFRs a bit rich but OK, then showing lean with misfire - but gradually. A rev-limiter cutoff is usually sharp, HP/TQ stops dead, AFRs go sharply lean, etc. Yours is similar, but is not so sharp, and stumbles rather than looking like you threw an off-switch. I didn't look to see if your system uses an increasing rolling misfire for rev-limit, or a cutoff. Most that use pills have a sharp cutoff.

I haven't included over-advance as I assume you've already zeroed-in on that with street pulls as described earlier.

David
08-10-2013 07:04 AM
donwhis
Re: Dyno run question

Still can't work out a new dyno run, but I have a new question.

On the dyno print out I posted you can see the engine starts misfiring around 5500 rpm. The shop supervisor said that it was the MSD dropping cylinders as a result of the rpm limiter. So, I pulled the MSD plug that limits rpm and it said 6000. Whats up with 5500 vs 6000.

I went ahead and replaced the 6000 plug with a 7000 but haven't taken it out to see what happens. I plan on putting the car in 2nd and see where it now starts dropping cylinders. If it still bangs out at 5500 what could it be.
06-29-2013 09:33 AM
Das Jager
Re: Dyno run question

Quote:
Originally Posted by MauriSSio View Post
15% is too low for a c6. As an example, the 5th gen camaro rated at 400hp only produces 320rwhp or so and that car has a much more efficient transmission than the clunky old c6 we use. i think a c6 might be closer to %22+ in losses.

a new zr1 corvette typically sees %15-17 in losses through a more effient MANUAL transmission too. just for reference.

stock LS1 Fbodies typically see %16-18 drivetrain losses in their auto cars and maybe %14-15 in the manual versions.

everything i hear is that the C6 is probably the least efficient passenger car transmission ever created with some people even claiming %30 losses! (bull ****). %25 percent isnt out of the realm of possibility though i think.

Your probably right. I built a light weight or lightened internal parts C6 once and it was much quicker in the 1/4 than the stock tranny. I took every rotating part and put them on a lathe and made some kind of weight reduction in them . There is a lot of rotating mass in the C6 trans for sure.
06-29-2013 09:29 AM
Das Jager
Re: Dyno run question

Quote:
Originally Posted by donwhis View Post
Well I finally got the time to have the exhaust pipes changed to 2 1/2" using the GM A body over the axle mandrel bends. Since I haven't been able to arrange a new dyno run I can't tell what difference it made. I can say that it sounds different, louder and with a flapping sound (hard to describe). And it seems to burn out with more power, burns all the way thru first and most of second. In fact, even with a locker rear end I can't stay on it all the way because it starts moving around and I get scared of ending up in the ditch.

I still need to do the basic carb tune, especially the idle jets. Checked float level and WOT operation already and they were OK.

Good for you.
I sincerely hope you get it to your liking.
Love to know if it helped on the dyno.
06-23-2013 05:02 PM
n2omike
Re: Dyno run question

Quote:
Originally Posted by donwhis View Post
Well I finally got the time to have the exhaust pipes changed to 2 1/2" using the GM A body over the axle mandrel bends. Since I haven't been able to arrange a new dyno run I can't tell what difference it made. I can say that it sounds different, louder and with a flapping sound (hard to describe). And it seems to burn out with more power, burns all the way thru first and most of second. In fact, even with a locker rear end I can't stay on it all the way because it starts moving around and I get scared of ending up in the ditch.

I still need to do the basic carb tune, especially the idle jets. Checked float level and WOT operation already and they were OK.
Sounds Good! I'm glad those mandrel bent A body pipes worked out!
Let us know how it goes if you get to the dyno again!
06-23-2013 02:13 PM
donwhis
Re: Dyno run question

Well I finally got the time to have the exhaust pipes changed to 2 1/2" using the GM A body over the axle mandrel bends. Since I haven't been able to arrange a new dyno run I can't tell what difference it made. I can say that it sounds different, louder and with a flapping sound (hard to describe). And it seems to burn out with more power, burns all the way thru first and most of second. In fact, even with a locker rear end I can't stay on it all the way because it starts moving around and I get scared of ending up in the ditch.

I still need to do the basic carb tune, especially the idle jets. Checked float level and WOT operation already and they were OK.
05-25-2013 11:01 AM
MauriSSio
Re: Dyno run question

Quote:
Originally Posted by Das Jager View Post
16% is about right with a c6 im afraid. I did a light weight rotating parts c6 and roller bearings and it made a big difference but for a stock c6 15% is about right.
That cam is not bad but it doesn't give the exhaust any help and with the tiny exhaust system it only made things worse. I wish you the best of luck with your combo. I like the stealth and the ones I've used on 460's have worked good but with more than normal carb for the application. Fixing the exhaust may satisfy you without any other change.
15% is too low for a c6. As an example, the 5th gen camaro rated at 400hp only produces 320rwhp or so and that car has a much more efficient transmission than the clunky old c6 we use. i think a c6 might be closer to %22+ in losses.

a new zr1 corvette typically sees %15-17 in losses through a more effient MANUAL transmission too. just for reference.

stock LS1 Fbodies typically see %16-18 drivetrain losses in their auto cars and maybe %14-15 in the manual versions.

everything i hear is that the C6 is probably the least efficient passenger car transmission ever created with some people even claiming %30 losses! (bull ****). %25 percent isnt out of the realm of possibility though i think.
05-24-2013 10:59 PM
Das Jager
Re: Dyno run question

Quote:
Originally Posted by donwhis View Post
Is 16% average, below average, or above average - I don't have a point of reference to know if it is good or bad. Thanks. Not sure what casting number the heads are, I think 1973 vintage off of a Lincoln or T-bird.

I have a oil leak on the front and rear valleys of the intake. I need to take it off and put a new gasket set on because the leak is pissing me off. Since I am doing that I am strongly considering going to a Stealth dual plane and not putting the Torker single plane back on. To do that I will have to cut a hole in my hood and find some type of scoop and air cleaner combo.

I went to the muffler shop today and had a good talk with the "man". He was glad I would bring the mandrel bent over axle pipe and didn't see any issues in reusing the mufflers and insuring I get 2 1/2" from front to back. Not leaving any 2" inside the muffler or ball clamp on the collector. I ordered the pipes and should be here middle of next week. By the weekend I should be able to get the car and pipes to him.

16% is about right with a c6 im afraid. I did a light weight rotating parts c6 and roller bearings and it made a big difference but for a stock c6 15% is about right.
That cam is not bad but it doesn't give the exhaust any help and with the tiny exhaust system it only made things worse. I wish you the best of luck with your combo. I like the stealth and the ones I've used on 460's have worked good but with more than normal carb for the application. Fixing the exhaust may satisfy you without any other change.
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