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post #46 of 55 (permalink) Old 03-20-2013, 04:30 PM Thread Starter
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Re: New Dart SHP 427w build

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Originally Posted by frdnut View Post
Any updates Dennis?
Yeah Willy, due to a family emergency a couple of weeks ago I am a little behind the update curve. Been rushing like hell afterward to get ready for the upcoming racing season. Motor runs and its strong. 50lbs oil pressure when warm (5w20.) The 11.1:1 compression plus Ed's cam gave me 200-205lbs cold cranking compression after 50 miles of break in. Seems to like 93 Octane fuel with 32 degrees of timing on the street but I think it wants more timing. Hard to tell when street driving this torque monster.

The motor did give me a smile when I was cruising on a straight flat road at 80mph in 4th and then nailed the throttle--within milliseconds the rear tires broke loose and wanted to send me into oncoming traffic. Well, the smile actually came after I left off the gas, corrected the car, and had regained my composure . . . I learned my lesson and will save the fun stuff for the track.

Currently dealing with starter issues when warm. Even a fresh stock starter didn't cut it so the next step is a high torque mini-starter since my battery is new and the battery cables and grounds have been replaced with HD 2/0 cable. Will have the starter installed before my first track outing hopefully next weekend.

Dennis

65' Stang Street/Strip. Dart 434W NA, Victor heads, G101A 4 Spd, 4:56 rear gear, on 93 octane pushing 3550lbs. [email protected]

Last edited by dennis111; 03-20-2013 at 04:53 PM.
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post #47 of 55 (permalink) Old 03-20-2013, 04:35 PM Thread Starter
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Re: New Dart SHP 428w build

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Originally Posted by Mroldfart2U View Post
WOW will they close long enough for combustion???? Man-o-Man.....


Looking great Dennis...

MRO.....
Thanks MRO.

When I first received the specs from Ed at FTI I had really expected more from him. Once I layed the old SR cam next to the new HR and knowing Ed's reputation, I felt more at ease knowing that he had a few tricks up his sleeve.

The real proof of performance will be made soon with some strip action.

Dennis

65' Stang Street/Strip. Dart 434W NA, Victor heads, G101A 4 Spd, 4:56 rear gear, on 93 octane pushing 3550lbs. [email protected]
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post #48 of 55 (permalink) Old 03-20-2013, 08:15 PM
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Re: New Dart SHP 427w build

Glad to hear you've got the beast up and running and are getting a few break in miles on her..Hope everything is ok with the family.


1968 mustang 408W Hybrid..Burns gas and rubber!
[email protected] with a crappy 1.72 60ft.
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post #49 of 55 (permalink) Old 04-03-2013, 03:51 PM
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Re: New Dart SHP 427w build

Hi Dennis,
Glad to see you have the motor together and are getting some miles on it and bugs worked out. Looking forward to hearing about the first trip to the track with it. My motor is still waiting for the custom Harland Sharp rockers to arrive. They have to wait until they do another run of the special big block ford units that we finally found will work. In the meatime, I have sold the Fairlane. Decided it was too nice as an original to cut up for hot rod. Presently have a 64 Merc Comet Caliente in the garage off craigslist. It has a worked over 390 in it with a blown head gasket that needs to be fixed. This will be flip car to build and sell. I am really trying to get a 64 falcon sprint race car I found in Michigan for sale. Full back half, 4 link, narrowed Mark Williams 9", 17" slicks, 10 point cage, original 4 speed car. Body is very nice original all steel. Will pro street it for my dart motor.
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post #50 of 55 (permalink) Old 04-03-2013, 04:32 PM Thread Starter
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Re: New Dart SHP 427w build

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Originally Posted by FlFairlane View Post
Hi Dennis,
Glad to see you have the motor together and are getting some miles on it and bugs worked out. Looking forward to hearing about the first trip to the track with it. My motor is still waiting for the custom Harland Sharp rockers to arrive. They have to wait until they do another run of the special big block ford units that we finally found will work. In the meatime, I have sold the Fairlane. Decided it was too nice as an original to cut up for hot rod. Presently have a 64 Merc Comet Caliente in the garage off craigslist. It has a worked over 390 in it with a blown head gasket that needs to be fixed. This will be flip car to build and sell. I am really trying to get a 64 falcon sprint race car I found in Michigan for sale. Full back half, 4 link, narrowed Mark Williams 9", 17" slicks, 10 point cage, original 4 speed car. Body is very nice original all steel. Will pro street it for my dart motor.
The Falcon Race car sounds like fun! Sorry to hear that you are still waiting of the rockers. I am sure that the motor will be a screamer when it is done!

I didn't keep this tread up very well but I went to the track last Saturday. Ran [email protected] raced weight.

The car was still bogging a little off the line with the low 5200rpm launch. I really needed to take a little more clutch out and launch higher. Instead, silly me was letting air out of the slicks and didn't realize I was making things worse. Still I ended up with the last 4 runs remaining in the 10.7x's. I've since made some adjustments and will hit the track again this Friday night for our first points bracket race of the year.

For more current info on my project, I suggest going to my Making Progress thread located here:

https://www.fordmuscleforums.com/maki...tang-gt-6.html

I do keep it up to date with my Mustang escapades.

Dennis

65' Stang Street/Strip. Dart 434W NA, Victor heads, G101A 4 Spd, 4:56 rear gear, on 93 octane pushing 3550lbs. [email protected]
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post #51 of 55 (permalink) Old 02-23-2014, 12:34 AM
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Re: New Dart SHP 427w build

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Originally Posted by dennis111 View Post
Yeah Willy, due to a family emergency a couple of weeks ago I am a little behind the update curve. Been rushing like hell afterward to get ready for the upcoming racing season. Motor runs and its strong. 50lbs oil pressure when warm (5w20.) The 11.1:1 compression plus Ed's cam gave me 200-205lbs cold cranking compression after 50 miles of break in. Seems to like 93 Octane fuel with 32 degrees of timing on the street but I think it wants more timing. Hard to tell when street driving this torque monster.

The motor did give me a smile when I was cruising on a straight flat road at 80mph in 4th and then nailed the throttle--within milliseconds the rear tires broke loose and wanted to send me into oncoming traffic. Well, the smile actually came after I left off the gas, corrected the car, and had regained my composure . . . I learned my lesson and will save the fun stuff for the track.

Currently dealing with starter issues when warm. Even a fresh stock starter didn't cut it so the next step is a high torque mini-starter since my battery is new and the battery cables and grounds have been replaced with HD 2/0 cable. Will have the starter installed before my first track outing hopefully next weekend.
Dennis,

You were absolutely right. Comp solid roller lifters 838-16 are complete crap. I had them on my 393 Windsor for 3 years and 3500 miles, and then bam, failure. Car ran perfect like yours did, till the Lifter roller bearings failed and wheel seized, causing damage to cam. 2 other Lifters were going south too. ALL on drivers side engine. Jay Allen warned me 3 years ago about those crap Comp Lifters, and I didn't listen. Now i have to freshen up engine cause Cam Metal everywhere.

I could tell something may have been wrong cause I could hear a faint tapping sound on drivers side, but very very faint. Car ran super strong still. Used Comp Cams Xtreme Energy solid roller XR292R. It wasn't the Billet core though.

Going with same cam on Billet core with ISKY EZX Bushing Lifters. Isky says they have no failures on street cars with big roller cams after 30k miles. Jay Allen loves these Lifters I hear.

Just a warning to everyone. Don't ever run needle bearing Solid roller lifters in street/strip car. They will fail no matter what. They are time bombs waiting to blow. Doesn't matter if your lash is perfect, doesn't matter what oil you use or how clean it is. It's a mechanical overload failure. No oil ever gonna prevent that.

Stick with Isky EZX Roller Bushing lifters for all your solid roller cams. Best Lifter out there I hear. And if one goes south, you will see lash open up, and catch it way before major damage to cam.

If I would of used Isky Bushing 3 years ago to begin with, Engine would be fine now.


Steve
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post #52 of 55 (permalink) Old 02-23-2014, 04:20 AM Thread Starter
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Re: New Dart SHP 427w build

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Originally Posted by Goneinsixty View Post
Dennis,

You were absolutely right. Comp solid roller lifters 838-16 are complete crap. I had them on my 393 Windsor for 3 years and 3500 miles, and then bam, failure. Car ran perfect like yours did, till the Lifter roller bearings failed and wheel seized, causing damage to cam. 2 other Lifters were going south too. ALL on drivers side engine. Jay Allen warned me 3 years ago about those crap Comp Lifters, and I didn't listen. Now i have to freshen up engine cause Cam Metal everywhere.

I could tell something may have been wrong cause I could hear a faint tapping sound on drivers side, but very very faint. Car ran super strong still. Used Comp Cams Xtreme Energy solid roller XR292R. It wasn't the Billet core though.

Going with same cam on Billet core with ISKY EZX Bushing Lifters. Isky says they have no failures on street cars with big roller cams after 30k miles. Jay Allen loves these Lifters I hear.

Just a warning to everyone. Don't ever run needle bearing Solid roller lifters in street/strip car. They will fail no matter what. They are time bombs waiting to blow. Doesn't matter if your lash is perfect, doesn't matter what oil you use or how clean it is. It's a mechanical overload failure. No oil ever gonna prevent that.

Stick with Isky EZX Roller Bushing lifters for all your solid roller cams. Best Lifter out there I hear. And if one goes south, you will see lash open up, and catch it way before major damage to cam.

If I would of used Isky Bushing 3 years ago to begin with, Engine would be fine now.


Steve
Sorry Steve to hear of your 838 lifter failure. It really sucks that these lifters go without warning no matter how well they are maintained, even on Comp's own cam grinds.

It also sucks that Jay Allen recommended the 838 to most of his SR customers. I wasn't told that the 838 should be replaced often and that there were better options out there that might live longer. I probably wouldn't have went with a SR because of the cost of a good set of aftermarket lifter (around $1K vs $365 for the comps.) On the other hand, the custom SR he had ground for me was totally awesome (and wasn't based on off the shelf grinds.) Wish it didn't die from a distributor gear failure.

The Isky's should give you a long life though and is what I would have gone to if I hadn't gone hydraulic this time. Good Luck!!!

Dennis

65' Stang Street/Strip. Dart 434W NA, Victor heads, G101A 4 Spd, 4:56 rear gear, on 93 octane pushing 3550lbs. [email protected]

Last edited by dennis111; 02-23-2014 at 04:23 AM.
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post #53 of 55 (permalink) Old 02-23-2014, 11:14 PM
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Re: New Dart SHP 427w build

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Originally Posted by dennis111 View Post
Sorry Steve to hear of your 838 lifter failure. It really sucks that these lifters go without warning no matter how well they are maintained, even on Comp's own cam grinds.

It also sucks that Jay Allen recommended the 838 to most of his SR customers. I wasn't told that the 838 should be replaced often and that there were better options out there that might live longer. I probably wouldn't have went with a SR because of the cost of a good set of aftermarket lifter (around $1K vs $365 for the comps.) On the other hand, the custom SR he had ground for me was totally awesome (and wasn't based on off the shelf grinds.) Wish it didn't die from a distributor gear failure.

The Isky's should give you a long life though and is what I would have gone to if I hadn't gone hydraulic this time. Good Luck!!!

Dennis,

Wow, Jay Allen actually recommends Comp Lifters. There is a post on here from 2010 where he says Comp Lifters are crap and Run the Isky Bushing. Wonder why he recommends Comp 838' after posting that quote a few years back.

Also, you are correct. The Isky Bushing is crazy ass money. I don't know why they cost so much. Maybe it's a patented type of material. But I have yet to hear about any failures with them. I would go Hydraulic, but my tuner said I don't need to if I use the Isky Bushing Lifter. Last a long long time with my 225 seat and 560 open pressures, and Comp 292r cam.

But maybe you are correct. I should get a custom grind instead.

Sad so many poor guys are gonna have to do rebuilds like us after their Comp 838's go south. Comp needs to do away with this trash Lifter and go Bushing. Wonder why they don't?...It's true, there is no warning with the 838's. Your lash can be spot on, and oil super clean. Won't matter at all, they are TIME BOMBS. Some guys have had failures on the engine dyno. Man that is just ****ty ass workmanship to me. I bet 838's are made in China, unlike Isky Bushings made here.

Steve
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post #54 of 55 (permalink) Old 02-24-2014, 05:00 AM Thread Starter
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Re: New Dart SHP 427w build

You do know that Jay Allen went over the edge and went out of business? Hosed a lot of customers too, but did make an effort to pay those who pestered him back. Last I heard he worked as a clerk at either Autozone or Advance Auto. Been a couple of years now.

Its no secret that Jay Allen pushed pretty much anything from Comp. He got a good deal on their parts and it was an economic marriage. He also pushed out tons of the 838's to his Ford customers. Even repeatedly praised them on another SBF site that he frequented. That was up until about 2010 and he stopped selling parts publicly within a year or so of then.

Comp sells the 838's as their cheap entry level SR lifter for SBF's. They offer a comparable lifter for other manufacturer's engines too still under the Endure-x nameplate. They all have a cast body and use other cost saving measures to keep the price way down below what the premium brand lifters cost. They should be considered throw aways--use a season or 2 and then either have them rebuilt (over half the cost of new lifters) or replace them. Its easy to find tons of reported failures of the Endure-x on the net.

Comp also has an upscale premium line of solid roller lifters under the "Elite" nameplate that use a forged body and better roller bearings. Here is an example: http://www.summitracing.com/parts/cc...view/make/ford

My understanding is that Comp recently introduced a bushed SR lifter, but I have not researched it.

Comp is in business to sell parts and they are basically the Walmart of valve trains-they carry everything, either good or bad. They do not design everything they have and parts are often purchased from outside vendors and rebadged under the Comp nameplate. There are smaller companies that have been in business longer (like Isky and Crower) who still stick to there guns to only offer top-shelf products, which of course cost more to make. That cost must be passed down to the consumer. Our Walmart society would rather purchase something cheaper that they feel will do the same job. Many times the parts will work, but the failure rate will still be more than the smaller specialized outfits who rely on there track records to produce sales, not mass advertisements.

Crower, Moral, and some other manufacturer's have had good success for many years selling expensive premium roller bearing lifters and they both have produced bushing SR's, following Isky's lead. Others manufactures tried bushings before before with limited success, but Isky appears to be the first to produce a reliable SR that works good for the street/strip crowd.

Dennis

65' Stang Street/Strip. Dart 434W NA, Victor heads, G101A 4 Spd, 4:56 rear gear, on 93 octane pushing 3550lbs. [email protected]

Last edited by dennis111; 02-24-2014 at 05:44 AM.
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post #55 of 55 (permalink) Old 02-25-2014, 12:30 AM
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Re: New Dart SHP 427w build

Quote:
Originally Posted by dennis111 View Post
You do know that Jay Allen went over the edge and went out of business? Hosed a lot of customers too, but did make an effort to pay those who pestered him back. Last I heard he worked as a clerk at either Autozone or Advance Auto. Been a couple of years now.

Its no secret that Jay Allen pushed pretty much anything from Comp. He got a good deal on their parts and it was an economic marriage. He also pushed out tons of the 838's to his Ford customers. Even repeatedly praised them on another SBF site that he frequented. That was up until about 2010 and he stopped selling parts publicly within a year or so of then.

Comp sells the 838's as their cheap entry level SR lifter for SBF's. They offer a comparable lifter for other manufacturer's engines too still under the Endure-x nameplate. They all have a cast body and use other cost saving measures to keep the price way down below what the premium brand lifters cost. They should be considered throw aways--use a season or 2 and then either have them rebuilt (over half the cost of new lifters) or replace them. Its easy to find tons of reported failures of the Endure-x on the net.

Comp also has an upscale premium line of solid roller lifters under the "Elite" nameplate that use a forged body and better roller bearings. Here is an example: http://www.summitracing.com/parts/cc...view/make/ford

My understanding is that Comp recently introduced a bushed SR lifter, but I have not researched it.

Comp is in business to sell parts and they are basically the Walmart of valve trains-they carry everything, either good or bad. They do not design everything they have and parts are often purchased from outside vendors and rebadged under the Comp nameplate. There are smaller companies that have been in business longer (like Isky and Crower) who still stick to there guns to only offer top-shelf products, which of course cost more to make. That cost must be passed down to the consumer. Our Walmart society would rather purchase something cheaper that they feel will do the same job. Many times the parts will work, but the failure rate will still be more than the smaller specialized outfits who rely on there track records to produce sales, not mass advertisements.

Crower, Moral, and some other manufacturer's have had good success for many years selling expensive premium roller bearing lifters and they both have produced bushing SR's, following Isky's lead. Others manufactures tried bushings before before with limited success, but Isky appears to be the first to produce a reliable SR that works good for the street/strip crowd.
Dennis,

I Googled Comp Sportsman solid Rollers and they make a bushed one now. But personally i would never use a Comp Lifter again, even if they do sell the Bushed one. Isky was one of the First company's to sell the Bushing roller lifter. They have refined it and improved it to what it is today. An outstanding and maybe the best Solid roller Lifter you can buy, especially for street rods. Comp makes good cams, but their Lifters are garbage. After having the 838-16's fail on me, it has left real bad taste in my mouth and is gonna cost me like $5k to freshen engine. New engine will be way better, but still not cheap. I will only stick with Isky bushing now, cause I can't afford another Lifter failure causing me to rebuild and freshen my engine.

Isky told me they have lots of guys with big roller cams and 25-40k miles on them with no rebuilds. Tons of street driving and racing. Isky is a small company, but they are made in USA at least. I will still use the Comp cam XE GRIND XR292R cause it made great power. But this time I will have it ground on Billet core with pressed on Iron gear, so I can use Ford steel gear on Distributor.

One Lifter failure is enough for me. The Isky EZX Lifter will be the last ones i ever buy. Suckers will last my engine 10years, cause I only drive it like 2-3k miles a year. Then I will just rebuild them if lash starts to grow too much.

Totally done with Comp crap Lifters after going through this failure. Not worth it man. Only best Lifter will do for me.

Steve
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